Got Surprised by a Bear this Weekend, Rethinking Carry Options

kayakersteve

New member
Well, I'm ready now...

My 460 S&W Corbon 395 grain hard cast bullets arrived yesterday for my 460V - These look formidable - I would not want one of those heading my way!!!
 

HiBC

New member
If a great big steer is holding still,someone who knows what they are doing can kill it with a .22.But that isn't what we are talking about.
I can tell you from personal experience if I had listened to the "bear experts"
my ex,or myself,or both likely would be dead from a black bear.
The fact that someone read in a book that all black bears are timid and avoid humans has one problem.Black bears don't read books.
Quite a while back,there was a documentary on predatory black bears (human predatory) I think it was on NOVA after some people were killed by a black in Yosemite.It also showed where a couple was killed on an island.They also showed footage of a large black stalking a guy out of the woods,he videoed it.That one got me,my bear had the same expression.
Generally(not always) if a grizzly attacks you,you offended him and he is educating you.If a black bear attacks a human,generally,he is hungry and you are a meal.
I smacked mine across the face with my 97 to start things off,and he doid back up,but then he held my eyes and just kept easing toward me.A warning shot didn'rt even register a flinch, A 12 gauge slug into the mouth and he went down and got back up.
You do what you want.If you think you can pop him with a .40 and he'll run away,be my guest.Use a .380,I don't care.
You don't really have a problem till someone is hurt or about to be hurt.If you are carrying the gun for the occasion when someone is getting hurt and you want a .40 or a 9,be my guest,it is your loved one.
I built a 7 lb 21 inch bbl .375 for such occasions,but if I am relying on a sidearm it will be my SBH .44 with 300 gr lasercast kieth slugs,unless I get something bigger.
A 200 lb black bear can kill ypu.
 

mountainclmbr

New member
HiBC,

I agree with you. I have a 12 ga in the house loaded with Brenneke slugs as the first rounds. I have been considering putting my Marlin 444 or CZ 550 375 H&H into duty for a house gun. But, working in the yard I cannot carry them and do necessary work. I have a few 44 mags and also have the Double Tap 44 mag 320 gr Beartooth Wide Flat Nose Hard-Cast Gas Check bullets, 1300 fps from 6.5 inch bbl. But all the 44's are too big to carry or I don't want to wear them doing yard work. I am looking at something like the 4-inch S&W 629, used, scratched work gun. There are usually numerous black bear attacks in Colorado every year. Many have lost their fear of man and are not timid at all.
 

HiBC

New member
Try a Ruger single action with about 5 in bbl in .45 LC.My Super blackhawk has a 5 in bbl,(I cut it) and it carries well.
I had a 3in bbl Uberti sheriff model 45 LC that would fit in the breast pocket of my carhartt bibs and I could snap the sap behind the hammer.I figured my son in law needed a heavy handgun,so its his now.
 

mountainclmbr

New member
HiBC,

I know that the 45LC can be loaded to impressive levels, but I do not have anything in that caliber currently. I have 41 mag and 44 mag.right now. I also prefer DA to SA for this purpose.

I have worked to modify a shoulder holster so it stops on the trigger guard and not barrel length and making it very versatile for revolvers or 1911's. I can wear an unbuttoned long sleeve shirt as a cover garment. I often do this to prevent scratches from brantches when cutting wood. The lib nanny neighbor would surely call the police if she saw a gun even though it is legal. My sherrif is a lib too so I wouldn't expect fair treatment..
 

kamerer

New member
The lib nanny neighbor would surely call the police if she saw a gun even though it is legal. My sherrif is a lib too so I wouldn't expect fair treatment..

Well, you should carry openly. You couldn't get in any trouble, and you'd have an excellent excuse about why you don't have to be the one to pull her out of the snow bank next time she calls...;)
 

Stevie-Ray

New member
My 460 S&W Corbon 395 grain hard cast bullets arrived yesterday for my 460V - These look formidable - I would not want one of those heading my way!!!
Neither would I want a subsonic .22 heading mine.:confused:
 

HiBC

New member
Your .41 or .44 are good for a handgun.I suggested a Ruger SA because they are strong enough for heavy loads,reliable,and the .45s have the smaller aluminum grip frame.Big bore power factor wise,a SA rides easier,but you can prefer what you prefer,no heartburn.
Here is the crux of my case .Hunting,I killed a cow elk once with my .44.It was a neck spine smashing shot,instant kill.I used a 240 grain soft point jacketed.The slug did not penetrated past the spine.That full house .44 penetrated 1/2 a cow elk's neck and stopped.
As another gentleman pointed out,self defense bear shooting is different than shooting a bear from a hide over bait,or treed by hounds.It is a little more dynamic.On another occasion,I used the head of a hog I found at an informal dump site to conduct some .44 mag JSP softpoints penetration tests,It wasn't very thick,less than 6 inches.I leaned it against some plywood and burned a wheel into that hog's forehead.All of the slugs were in a pile at the base of the plywood.Not one entered the plywood.A soft point doesn't make it.
I want a round capable of smashing through all the bone mass where the shoulders and spine come together.Through the upper foreleg bone ,shoulder blades,spine,meat ,and sinew.All of the cool cauliflowered out expanded bullets look like pure failure to me.I want a handgun bullet on a bear to work like an African solid on elephant or buffalo.Penetrate and break things.
Now,I don't have all that much experience at bear shooting, (1)but I would bet heavy that gentlemen like Ross Seifred and Elmer Kieth would support what I am saying.
Is the point shooting a bear with what you prefer to carry,or carrying what you prefer to shoot a bear with?
 

vtoddball

New member
I've seen a couple people dismiss the lightweight alloy guns in heavy calibers. In all honesty, I think that's really what they were built for. You certainly wouldn't spend all day practicing with the full power loads but a 44 Mag for example, you could practice with 44 special and carry 44 Mag. I'm fairly certain that if the situation arose where you NEEDED it to stop an attacking bear, you probably won't even notice the recoil.

Lightweight and short means you'll carry it all the time and have it when you need it. And that's way more important than whether or not you have an aching palm the next day. I'm looking at the S&W Night Guard in 44 Mag. Those are some nice looking revolvers.

And for everyone going on about how peaceful and solitary black bears are...whatever. Firstly, that wasn't even the question. More importantly, 99.9% of the people you run into on a daily basis will never harm you, but many of you still carry. Why would you imply that similar precautions are unnecessary with regards to wild and OFTEN unpredictable animals?! :rolleyes:
 

kamerer

New member
I'm fairly certain that if the situation arose where you NEEDED it to stop an attacking bear, you probably won't even notice the recoil.

That's true, but I like knowing I can dump four full-house .44mag rounds without flinching or anticipating. I have shot the lightweights and even as an experienced shooter, they make me neurally debate the next pull.

The other point about this is the sillyness of arguing over 14 ounces. A 329pd at 26ozs vs. an all steel 3" 629 at 40 ozs. is not a great trade when the difference is .44mag loads that are, in the 629, "acceptable" vs. the same rounds in a 329 called "brutal" by a widely accepted he-man shooter (Jeff Quinn). Carrying an extra 14 ounce is just not a big deal - loose some weight, or re-rig the belt or pack to carry it better.

Considering you also pay a large premium for saving these 14 ounces, this seems to me like one of the great marketing gimmicks of the last 15 years - much like getting people to pay for tap water in plastic bottles. If you are that kind of consumer, you'll fall for the spiel.

VT Vermont not VT Virginia Tech

Now I TOTALLY agree with this! And if you mean University of Vermont, you mean "UVM", not "UVT." Our toast use to be - "God bless America. And the state of Vermont. Which give a man the right to **** in his own back yard." A simpler endorsement of freedom and a great state, I've never seen. God love and grace my beloved Vermont.
 

Pilot

New member
Buy a used S&W Mountain gun in .44 Mag or .45 Colt if you reload. I've spent a lot of time in your area (Evergreeen/Conifer/Idledale) etc. and never have seen a Black Bear or Mountain Lion, but I know they are around. That article about the Mountain Lion in Idledale was an eye opener. While only 130 lbs, it was able to jump a 6 foot fence with a 70 lb. Lab in its mouth.

Too bad about your neighbor and the sheriff. Its too bad, more and more people in Colorado are like them.
 

kayakersteve

New member
So, I went out looking for a bear and fell asleep...

Here is what happened after I drifted off into a nice little nap.
550_bear-man.jpg
 

kayakersteve

New member
Well,

Where should I begin? - I now am very fond of bears - They are sweet and huggable and after this experience........(you can finish the rest!)
 

longeyes

New member
Shooting bears, our totem-animal, is serious bad karma. These are good beasts. Save the firesticks for rotten hombres. Bear spray all the way.
 

mountainclmbr

New member
In the Fall through Spring the wind can be very "brisk". One time we had 2 days with the highest sustained wind speed in Colorado in my little town---118 mph both days. Days with 60-90 mph wind is not uncommon at all. Roads are often shut down for wind in fall through spring. I wonder how pepper spray works in these conditions where a high-pressure hose with a stream attachment will only go 1 ft into the wind. I do carry a Key Defender pepper spray system sometimes, but you can only count on it to work indoors. I have let the dogs out to chase a bear off when it was hiding under the window sill about 5 ft from the sliding glass door. I had the 12ga ready, but the bear ran and was never seen again. I don't want to shoot a bear, but want suitable yard protection in case the bear attacks. In our little canyon newsletter today it stated that there were over 500 bear reports this year. It would be more if I ever reported mine.
 

AdamSean

New member
I wanted to find something for Black Bear defense while hiking. I was looking at a .357 Magnum, but didn't like the carry package. So I stick to heavy .45 ACP loads hard cast or round nose. You can always upgrade to the Kahr pm45.
 
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