Got Surprised by a Bear this Weekend, Rethinking Carry Options

[CraigC]

To be honest, I worry a lot more about ticks and chiggers than I do bears.

I tell ya, I'd just about rather tangle with a bear even if all I had was a butterknife than a pack of angry chiggers!

All I'm saying about a .40 S&W is that caliber should cause a blackie to turn tail and head the opposite direction if it takes a body hit. I'm not advocating the pistol as a hunting round. It's obviously not suited and neither is a 45 ACP. But I think that caliber would be an effective deterrent, too. Not a bear killer, but a bear punisher.

You're going in the wrong direction. Hunting usually involves taking a shot at an unalarmed animal from an unseen location. STOPPING a bear attack in progress requires MORE horsepower. Not less. You could do a lot worse than the .40S&W or .45ACP but you need the right bullet. Lightweight, rapidly expanding self defense bullets will get you nothing but trouble.

 

[Adventurer 2]

Just got this advice in an e-mail:

 

[ssilicon]

Pal you have to choose. Choose between a caliber effective aginst bear or one you think is small enough to be convenient.

A small barelled S&W 500 should do the trick just dandy. Otherwise .44 mag. Anything less really isn't for bear.

 

[mountainclmbr]

I already have a 44 mag with 6-inch bbl and 41 mag with 7 1/2 inch bbl. I have been looking at S&W 57 in 41 mag, S&W 629 and S&W Mountain Gun in 44 mag. Aslo somewhat thinking about the Scandium S&W 629PD, but worried about recoil in such a light gun.

In fall through spring I now carry a Fusion Firearms 6-inch longslide in 10mm in a vertical shoulder holster and a jacket for cover. Spring and fall are the worst seasons for bears so I think I have that covered. It is the summertime, working in the yard gun I am struggling with. Leaning toward a 4-inch bbl revolver in 41 mag or 44 mag. I need something I can conceal with shorts and a tee-shirt. Colorado is open carry, but I have some neighbors that are liberal activists and likely to start trouble.

 

[skoro]

You could do a lot worse than the .40S&W or .45ACP but you need the right bullet. Lightweight, rapidly expanding self defense bullets will get you nothing but trouble.

I agree wholeheartedly. FMJ or hardcast all the way for penetration.

 

[Socrates]

AD2: Love that sign.

Little fuzzy, however.

 

[kamerer]

God I love bear threads. So many interesting comparisons to make and think about!

Colorado is open carry, but I have some neighbors that are liberal activists and likely to start trouble.

With the increase in wildlife "home invasions," their attitudes might be changing! Here's one that happened in our (relatively speaking) neck of the woods recently:

http://news.aol.ca/article/bear-mauls-bc-woman-in-front-yard/304025/

I know it's not convenient to annoy neighbors, but in the last few years I've really stopped hesitating about open carrying when in wild life areas. Challenging liberal/fascist attitudes about handgun ownership and rights is a nice side-benefit, not motivation. The thing that really shocked me is that I've never met a scowl or question - usual comments are "I'm glad someone's packing." Really surprised me. But this is in areas outside the "PC-Beltway" of I-405 around Seattle. Prolly different in there.

If my life was on the line I'd sign up for as much "over-kill" as I could comfortable CC. I think a 3" .44 mag by either Ruger or S&W would offer a great amount of firepower but would be fat/bulky and heavy. You might consider a Glock 29 or some other mid-size 10mm and load it with a heavy duty cast or JSP hunting load from Buffalo Bore, Core Bon or Double Tap.

You might think that, but you'd be surprised. The comparisons aren't THAT radically dissimilar, and the shape of the revolver really lends itself to CC more than a a rigid, angular "L" shaped auto. This isn't a new theory, it's been commented on lots over the years.

I don't have a G29 to photograph in comparison, but below is a 3" round-butted S&W .44 magnum, my "big bear" carry gun. The frame is only 2/3" wide, much less than the average width of a G29. The cylinder area is wider (1.7" vs 1.3" width of a G29), and the stock is about the same. But the uneven contour of the revolver, thinner spots, and rounded shape, let it nestle against the waist/hip area, or elsewhere, more naturally than a "slab side" auto. Though slightly heavier, this packs MUCH more easily than say a 1911 style, or 4" K or L frame - my other main points of personal comparison.

The weight advantage clearly goes to a G29, (I calculate about 33 ozs. loaded G29 vs. 46 ozs. loaded for a 3" 629), but it's not as massive as you think (assuming you have a full 10rd. mag).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the G29 as a legitimate woods carry gun. Just pointing out that toting a 3" N frame is not as hard as it might sound. With a decent high-ride pancake, these go pretty easily under an untucked shirt. With a nice 200gr. Gold Dot in .44spcl range, they are also awesome cc guns if called upon. Oh yeah, and the DA trigger on this thing has to be felt to be believed -it's really impressive.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

a couple of my guns that would "fit the bill"... maintaining my wifes familys century farm, I'm always outside working, cleaning up brush, cutting wood, etc... there are skunks, racoons, rabbits, woodchucks, & other farm varmints for which I usually carry a revolver to dispatch... it needs to be stainless, reasonably compact, & not get in my way while working...

my main farm carry gun ( we don't have bears in my area ) is a stainless 4" barreled Ruger GP-100 in 357 magnum... which with a good heavy bullet would be on my list much higher than a 40 S&W or a 45 ACP were I in your situation...

so... I'll admit I'm not much of an "auto guy"... but as a collector... I've got a couple... of my autos, this one does get some "woods time" on my belt... it's in my CCW gun group, so it carry's reasonably well, even though it's a full sized, full capacity auto... the Witness is reliable & affordable... I wouldn't consider it a "grizzly gun" but I'd feel confident with it for black bear defense, again with a good non expanding bullet selected... the Glock didn't fit me, but if it does you, it's lighter weight, would be an added plus...

you mentioned you have a nice Dan Wesson... if you shop around, you can find an older used one reasonable... I built this 44 Mag as a belt gun for rifle hunting in grizzly country, about 10 years ago... I've since replaced it as my main griz gun, not because I feel the 44 mag is not enough, but because I prefer stainless for my carry in any weather belt guns... CZ still offers support for the older Dan Wessons, so you could get a 2" barrel from them, either for your existing Dan Wesson, or for a used one you chose to build similarly... BTW... this one uses a custom barrel nut compensator, & is very very easy to shoot 2nd, 3rd, 4th...etc etc. shots ( a full sized frame will handle the heaviest 44 mag loads, & it still holds a full 6 rounds...

this one is "the business"... stainless snub nosed Ruger Alaskan... mine is 454 Casull, ( but they offer the same gun in 44 mag )... no lock ... & all business... the gun is heavy, but compact... if you are used to shooting magnums, ( I am )... I find it very easy to shoot with all but the stoutest 454 Casull rounds, & any heavy 45 Colt is almost pleasurable to shoot in it... because of it's size, it carrys easily, & is very durable... it's my belt gun for bear country...

 

[ssilicon]

I need something I can conceal with shorts and a tee-shirt. Colorado is open carry, but I have some neighbors that are liberal activists and likely to start trouble.

Well see there you have it. You are prioritizing your neighbor's liberal sensitivities over your own protection from bear on your own property. I sympathize about the neighbors but again, you have to choose your priority. I think that you have, and I think I see which way. Wouldn't be my way but to each their own

The 10mm is a strong auto, and a .41 special isn't a lightweight, but if it were me, it would be .44 magnum or greater for bear concerns. Something is better than nothing though.

 

[mountainclmbr]

One of my neighbors is, in my opinion, certifiably crazy. All but one of her five children are institutionalized. She regularly tries to organize the entire neighborhood to file a complaint against me because our dogs are barking a few times at night. She leaves out the fact that this happens when she has outdoor benefit cookouts for leftist politicians that I am browbeat to attend, but decline (even though there are burning bans) and then the bears come out of the forest and across my yard those nights and sometimes trying to climb over my deck. And the dogs are barking inside the house. She reported to me that she and her son (bipolar, but not institutionalized) had been walking by our house during the middle of the day trying to hear dogs and thought they might have heard a dog barking. Not sure if ours or far away, but reported it anyway. Our sherrif is also a big leftist and she holds fundraisers for him too. If she saw me with a gun she would have the SWAT team all over me. That is my concealed-is-concealed problem.

Whenever her front wheel drive car gets stuck in the snow I am the first person she calls to pull her out. Why does someone live in the Colorado mountains without 4WD or AWD? Why do I even pull her out?

 

[KYCOP]

mountainclmbr-bear

I have a 3'' Trail Boss I use as my woods, hiking gun. I use a bianchi cyclone holster cross draw or strong side you hardly notice it is there. I have put over 1000 rds of magtech 240 gr med. velocity loads thur it. No problems with the lock. This gun is more accurate than a 4'' mountain gun I owned

 

[Stevie-Ray]

there are skunks, racoons, rabbits, woodchucks, & other farm varmints for which I usually carry a revolver to dispatch...

I have to say that the only thing I am MORE AFRAID of than a bear, when tramping through the Hiawatha National Forest, is a SKUNK!:barf:

 

[kamerer]

I use a bianchi cyclone holster cross draw or strong side you hardly notice it is there.

What cyclone model fits and does this? I would really like to have one for cross-draw. I only saw 4, 5.5 and 6.5" models listed. Or are you using a longer one and not a 3" model?

 

[WIN71]

Bears are sneaky little guys.

They work in pairs. Just when you think you're back safe at your car.......Bingo

 

[adk]

Don't trust black bears ...

I live in black bear country and carry a 44 mag Mountain Gun with Speer Gold Dot 270gr GDSP ammo when I go the least bit into the woods. This is considered to be a good load for bears. As for around the house, the gun is always close by, loaded.

I should be carrying it, I guess. Because a lady who lives in the woods here was just attacked by a small bear while walking her dogs. He did terrible damage to her head and face. So never trust a black bear. Especially a young male, as he may stalk you as food.

Personally, I'd want a 41 mag or 44 mag or 45 Colt, or bigger gun. I just handled the Ruger Alaskan in 44 mag and liked it very much. Feels good in the hand, should be easy to carry, and would clear the holster fast. I think it would be unlikely to give you mechanical trouble. No worrisome lock, either. Good for a very close quarters shot, which may be the only shot you get. Bears can be on you like lightning, as I'm sure you know. And mountain lions too, of course. Ruger makes a holster for it, as shown on their Internet Store.

But I have not looked at 44 mag ballistics for the short barrel. My Mountain Gun is 4", and is easily carried all day in a Kramer Belt Scabbard - a marvelous holster.

-------

 

[adk]

Bear spray ...

Bear spray can be better than bullets sometimes. www.UDAP.com sells a big can that really puts out. We keep a couple cans around here.

----

 

[mordis]

I live in northern Indiana, and lately have been seeing some signs of black bear activity returning to these parts. I own 2 handguns and thats it. One is a 5" .45acp and the other is a 4" .38spc. Now for the .38 I normaly carry the FBI load that remington makes, but am working up some 158gr hard cast lswc bullets. In .45acp i have some hot fmj and hard cast bullets. This is all i have, and i can not afford to buy anything else. Not at this time. I was thinking of getting a Ruger new vaquero and handloading a stout standard pressure .45colt(255lswc over 10gr unique, this load is out of John Taffins book Single Action Sixguns. It was used with a 1st gen SAA, whose metal was alot weaker then what we have today).

But until i can save enough to buy a new gun, i have to do what i can. Im more worried about badgers and criminals out there then bears, but in the way off chance there is one actually in my area, i have to use what i have.

I Know the .45acp and .38 arnt the best, but i would hope a hard cast .38 moving about 950fps would be better then nothing, same with my stout .45acp fmj.

Not everyone has a magnum nor the ability to run out and buy one. Some people cant handle a magnums recoil, those people need something to carry in the woods, that will give them a chance. The first thing needed is penetration and i assume my fmjs and hard casts will give that.

 

[kamerer]

Not everyone has a magnum nor the ability to run out and buy one.

I don't think you have anything to worry about, at all. Personally, I only make sure I have a magnum when in the area of our state that IS grizzly country or VERY large black area (there is a big size difference east vs. west). In "normal" bear country I carry a .38 or .45acp sometimes - I have some guns in those calibers I just hate to leave at home and not enjoy on a trip.

 

[MonkezUncle]

My sympathies to the poster that started this thread... I can relate. Over Memorial Day I was hiking in Tahoe and the rangers (very kindly) talked me out carrying my .40 because THERE WERE ABSOLUTELY NO BEARS NEARBY. Yep... about 2.5 miles in... there's a bear. Very ****** off one at that. Needless to say my hike the next day included my little black friend.

But, it got me thinking... what good would a .40 be on a big ol bear? Same goes for my .45. I started doing some more ballistics research and everyone seemed to think I should go for a magnum hunting round. Not big on carrying that since I can't use it at the range. So, I am switching to a Glock 20c. (which is a hard admission from someone who doesn't like Glocks). Yeah, more of you will respond to that last sentence then the 12 before).

Hope that helps!

-MonkezUncle

 

[kamerer]

Over Memorial Day I was hiking in Tahoe and the rangers (very kindly) talked me out carrying my .40 because THERE WERE ABSOLUTELY NO BEARS NEARBY.

Were these fed or state park rangers? I guess you were in a state park or National Forest, as NP carry is still verboten. That's really sad...

My response would have been - "We'll, there are lots of dope farms in CA state parks, so I'll carry it against the Mexican cartels operating franchises here..."

They've started finding them all over the west now that they are looking:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/08/pot.eradication/index.html