Why not a .38 Super?
- Thread starter gmarr
- Start date
rc, please do not give bad advice.
Do not try to shoot the 9mm Largo in a 38 Super chamber.
The 9mm Largo case is longer than the 38 Super, and the 9mm Largo is tapered like the 9X23 Winchester. Both of these conditions can cause the 9mm Largo to stick in a 38 Super chamber.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×23mm_Largo
I've been out of town and working so I didn't look back at this. 44amp and Mike Irwin oughta be ashamed of themselves.
The context of the thread provided and the text provided the "qualifer". You didn't understand the context of the post, which should have been obvious given the thread. It was only in relation to a discussion of service calibers in handguns and not rifle rounds, the .22 caliber etc. This most honest folks would have seen that straight off.
By the way...the .25 acp which was common at one time is a niche round today. Same is true of the .32 acp. But the .380 is not and is a common round these days but not a common service caliber.
I added this a day later. thinking about it you're right I should have been more specific, my bad.
tipoc
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By the way I'll say this again. The 38 acp was introduced in 1897 and chambered by Browning and Colt in the Colt Sporting and Military pistols. When Colt decided to chamber the 1911 in the 38 acp they named the guns the Colt Super 38. It was chambered in 38 acp and advertised as that in 1928 and after for decades after.
The 1911 was stronger than Browning's previous guns and could handle increased pressures for the 38 acp.
In his book Doug Sheldon point out that at some point ammo manufacturers began to call the loadings for the 1911 in 38 acp, 38 Super loads. Slowly the name for the rounds became 38 Super.
It's still common to find the older 1130 fps loads offered by ammo makers at the older 38 acp velocities of 1130 fps with a 130 gr. bullet.
Been around since 1897 and they still make guns for it. Ain't going away.
tipoc
The 1911 was stronger than Browning's previous guns and could handle increased pressures for the 38 acp.
In his book Doug Sheldon point out that at some point ammo manufacturers began to call the loadings for the 1911 in 38 acp, 38 Super loads. Slowly the name for the rounds became 38 Super.
It's still common to find the older 1130 fps loads offered by ammo makers at the older 38 acp velocities of 1130 fps with a 130 gr. bullet.
Been around since 1897 and they still make guns for it. Ain't going away.
tipoc
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Been around since 1897 and they still make guns for it. Ain't going away."
Except, as best as I can tell, no one has manufactured .38 ACP ammo since the 1960s -- just .38 Super (or .38 Auto +P, however you want to name it).
The cases may be the same, but the results certainly aren't.
Except, as best as I can tell, no one has manufactured .38 ACP ammo since the 1960s -- just .38 Super (or .38 Auto +P, however you want to name it).
The cases may be the same, but the results certainly aren't.
A couple of small companies make 38 Auto ammo. PCI, Big Bear, Buffalo Arms.
It might be better to suggest that no one still makes guns in that caliber - everything today is 38 Super Auto.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Ok, I stand corrected. I didn't turn up anything on my Google searches so figured it was DOA 'n' DRT.
Until a couple of years ago Fiocchi continued to sell 38acp ammo named as such. and the small fry continue to make it.
In the pics above the Remington 38 Colt Pistol ammo is from the late 1970s and is not, by far, the last of it they made.
Also keep in mind that a good deal of current ammo is still loaded to the 38 acp velocities.
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/11948
http://www.ammo-one.com/38APCAuto.html
https://www.buffaloarms.com/38-auto-38-acp-ammunition-124-grain-fmj-box-of-50-amo38auto
https://www.loadxammo.com/retailcat.pdf
Recall the discussion about velocity and pressure for the 38 ACP and the 38 Super. The case is identical. The difference is the powder charge and the velocity of the bullet. The 1911 is a stronger gun than the Colt 1902 Military, etc. It could handle the additional pressure of a more powerful load.
According to Doug Sheldon (and some other sources) , the initial 1900 specs for the Colt M1900 called for a 130 gr. bullet and a velocity from the 6" barrel of 1260 fps. Throughout this first part of the 38 acp's life manufacturers listed the velocity as from 1160 to 1280 fps with the same 130 gr. bullet. Nothing wrong the ammo but the early Colt pistols were weaker than the 1911.
The Thompson LaGarde reports of 1904 listed the velocity from the 6" barrel of the 1902 Military with a 130 gr. pill as 1107 fps. (In the same tests a Luger was shot with a 123.5 gr. bullet from a 4" barrel and did 1048 fps.) So the listed velocities from manufacturers and Colt ad-men may have been a touch optimistic.
In 1929 Colt chambered the 1911 in the 38 acp and named the gun the Colt Super 38. The ballistics did not change and Colt called the ammo the 38acp and advertised the gun as being chambered in 38 acp.
In late 1932 Remington produced a round that pushed a 130 gr. bullet to 1300 fps. from a 5" barrel so they advertised. Some other manufacturers followed suit. It's unclear but a few years later ammo companies began to label the higher pressure loads "for 38 Super autos only" and similar as complaints came in that the older 38 acp guns were being damaged by the higher pressure loads. In the pre-war years some companies apparently began using nickel plated cases for the higher pressure loads to distinguish them from the loads for the older pistols. It was most likely in the late pre-war period that ammo manufacturers began to name loads for the 38 acp as 38 acp and loads for the 1911s as 38 Super. It became more common to do so.
Note in the pics that all the Winchester ammo boxes are from the 1980s and more recently. They have different names and ways to call the round from 38 Automatic through till 38 Super +P, but that they all have the same product code, X38ASHP.
tipoc
In the pics above the Remington 38 Colt Pistol ammo is from the late 1970s and is not, by far, the last of it they made.
Also keep in mind that a good deal of current ammo is still loaded to the 38 acp velocities.
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/11948
http://www.ammo-one.com/38APCAuto.html
https://www.buffaloarms.com/38-auto-38-acp-ammunition-124-grain-fmj-box-of-50-amo38auto
https://www.loadxammo.com/retailcat.pdf
Recall the discussion about velocity and pressure for the 38 ACP and the 38 Super. The case is identical. The difference is the powder charge and the velocity of the bullet. The 1911 is a stronger gun than the Colt 1902 Military, etc. It could handle the additional pressure of a more powerful load.
According to Doug Sheldon (and some other sources) , the initial 1900 specs for the Colt M1900 called for a 130 gr. bullet and a velocity from the 6" barrel of 1260 fps. Throughout this first part of the 38 acp's life manufacturers listed the velocity as from 1160 to 1280 fps with the same 130 gr. bullet. Nothing wrong the ammo but the early Colt pistols were weaker than the 1911.
The Thompson LaGarde reports of 1904 listed the velocity from the 6" barrel of the 1902 Military with a 130 gr. pill as 1107 fps. (In the same tests a Luger was shot with a 123.5 gr. bullet from a 4" barrel and did 1048 fps.) So the listed velocities from manufacturers and Colt ad-men may have been a touch optimistic.
In 1929 Colt chambered the 1911 in the 38 acp and named the gun the Colt Super 38. The ballistics did not change and Colt called the ammo the 38acp and advertised the gun as being chambered in 38 acp.
In late 1932 Remington produced a round that pushed a 130 gr. bullet to 1300 fps. from a 5" barrel so they advertised. Some other manufacturers followed suit. It's unclear but a few years later ammo companies began to label the higher pressure loads "for 38 Super autos only" and similar as complaints came in that the older 38 acp guns were being damaged by the higher pressure loads. In the pre-war years some companies apparently began using nickel plated cases for the higher pressure loads to distinguish them from the loads for the older pistols. It was most likely in the late pre-war period that ammo manufacturers began to name loads for the 38 acp as 38 acp and loads for the 1911s as 38 Super. It became more common to do so.
Note in the pics that all the Winchester ammo boxes are from the 1980s and more recently. They have different names and ways to call the round from 38 Automatic through till 38 Super +P, but that they all have the same product code, X38ASHP.
tipoc
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