Saw a Glock 21 kB! today

[ryucasta]

Dawg,

Everything I have stated I back with facts and scanned images from Glock’s own literature and if I’m been wrong by way of omission or a misstatement on my part at least I admit it. It’s interesting how you provide phone numbers for Glock but no documentation to back up your position. If Lead bullets were a problem don’t you with your Mensa International level IQ think that Glock would have mentioned it somewhere in their literature and not relied on word of mouth. It also stands to reason that the manufacturers of new not reloaded ammunition would put a disclaimer to that effect not to use their lead bullet cartridges with Glock firearms.


BTW, did you ask the gentlemen at Glock Warranty Repair Section if they will actually put Glock's official position with regards to lead bullets in factory loaded new cartridges in writing and why their is no mention of lead cartridges in their literature?

 

[dawg23]

Dear Mr. Ryucasta:

I apologize for overestimating your IQ and/or your desire to ascertain Glock's position on the use of lead reloads. You are obviously more interested in quoting from an owner's manual or pontificating with "facts and scanned images" than in learning whether or not Glock advises against this practice.

I am certain that very few members of this forum care if you persist in doing something stupid. But it's unconscionable that you would advocate that others follow this assinine course of action.

Your detractors, myself included, are simply trying to warn others about the dangers associated with shooting LEAD RELOADS in polygonal barrels. If you wish to risk damaging your pistol (or losing digits from your hands) just to save a penny or two per round, by all means continue. Just have the decency to do it quietly.

Dawg23

 

[ryucasta]

Dawg,

I see you can be eloquent when the need arises, but I also can also tell that you reading skills leave much to be desired.

Ryucasta States:

"BTW, did you ask the gentlemen at Glock Warranty Repair Section if they will actually put Glock's official position with regards to lead bullets in factory loaded new cartridges in writing and why their is no mention of lead cartridges in their literature?"

Who’s putting emphasis on reloads here you are not me. I stood corrected on that issue and admitted to it even though the documentation that Glock provide is ambiguous at best. (Warranty card says one thing manual says another). I am basically stating that Glock has not officially stated anywhere in the literature that they provide with the product that Lead Bullets can’t be used.

If they have stated that somewhere in writing could you be kind enough to provide the members of the forum with a scanned image of the document or the email from Glock with that information.

 

[dawg23]

Ryucasta:

I see you're still obfuscating.

They didn't say you CAN'T - they say you SHOULDN"T.


NOW - why don't you just call them yourself and ask all the questions (and followup questions) that you may have. I guess if you're too cheap to buy factory ammo , you're way too cheap to pay $.06/minute to call long distance.

Mail me a self addressed envelope and I'll send you $1.80 - then you can call them and talk for 30 minutes.

 

[Tamara]

This thread will get civil or it will get closed.

 

[dawg23]

Tamara:

As opposed to criminal ??

 

[hitnthexring]

Lead Reloads in Glocks

I bought a Glock 17 when it first came out & I shot my lead reloads through it constantly with no problems. There were no warnings about lead in Glocks back then. I never had a problem. I don't shoot lead in any of my autos now, not only because I've been hearing it can be dangerous, but also because it leaves a hard-to-clean mess in the gun. I believe the KB's I've been hearing about lately have more to do with PROGRESSIVE RELOADING than lead. I use a single-stage press & charge cases & seat bullets as a separate operation, making a double charge very unlikely. Perhaps my brain & progressive load are not a good match, but I owned a progressive loader for 2 days, then traded it to a friend who was about to buy one. I was very uncomfortable doing several operations at the same time & being unable to watch everything, & I could see how double charging or no charging could happen. Progressive loading is fast, but there is a compromise in safety. I don't believe in the "weak case" theory.

 

[Blackhawk]

Jim Keenan,

(I have fired a .45 1911 with GI ammo, with the barrel completely blocked so the bullet could not move, and the case held. The slide, BTW, never moved.)

I'd like to know a LOT more about this -- everything in fact!

 

[MHOGAN]

So why doesn't Glock change their barrel rifling so lead bullets can be used like every other handgun in the world? What's the big advantage with this lead-free mandatory rifling that it would be worth disallowing such a common bullet material?

Sort of like a recurve bow that you can't shoot wood arrows out of.

 

[justinr1]

>>So why doesn't Glock change their barrel rifling so lead bullets
>>can be used like every other handgun in the world?

That's a good question. Other manufacturers are "biasing" their barrels for jacketed. I bought a S&W 686 2 months before the agreement. The rifling is so shallow that only jacketed bullets are accurate (very accurate I might add). The gun does not shoot lead decently, period. I think the trend stinks. I wish my 686 was as good with lead as my 586, but it's not!

justinr1

 

[Tamara]

MHOGAN,

So why doesn't Glock change their barrel rifling so lead bullets can be used like every other handgun in the world?

Not quite every handgun in the world. HK uses polygonal rifling, too, so no lead in USP's, P9's or P7's. Also, the Vektor CP1, HK P7 series, the Heritage Stealth, and the Desert Eagle all have gas ports that contraindicate useage of unjacketed bullets. Ditto for any ported gun (shooting unjacketed lead in my MagNaPorted 629, ported 731UL, CarryComped 640 or ported Springfield V-10 makes a hard-to-clean mess, depositing vaporized lead all over the front of the gun).

 

[Mike Davies]

hitnthexring said: "I don't believe in the "weak case" theory".

Well, I was skeptical myself, particularly the warnings about using either Fiocchi or "small FC" headstamped Federal brass. Until I came across this case in a lot of once-fired brass that I buy from our local police dept. They use Glock 22's. This case has the "Large FC" headstamp....

 

[the duck of death]

I bought a Glock 23 and shot it 2 times with a full charge load I got out of the Fourth Edition of the Hornady hand book. The cases were bulged so badly I installed a KKM barrel. No more bulged cases with the KKM and the fired unsized cases will fit into a case gage. This load is also fine in my Sig Pro 2340. The Glockies think their gun can do no wrong. I think it can do no wrong with a good aftermarket barrel. I shoot reloads in everything and didn't buy a Glock to shoot factory ammo. Just about all the gun makers tell you not to shoot reloads. Since the reload I shot in the Glock barrel was within SAMMI specs. I have no doubt factory ammo would have been bulged with the Glock barrel. If you do a side by side compairison of a Glock barrel to a Sig or a KKM barrel you will find the Glock has much less support at the 6 o'clock position. You can do whatever you think is the right thing to do but for me if I get any more Glocks they will get a KKM barrel wheather I shoot reloads or factory ammo. I value my fingers. As far as reloading goes I trust my handloads (after using them for 40 yrs.) more than factory ammo that I had no hand in the quality control. For you who think factory ammo is safe consider all the recalls over the years.

 

[Mike Davies]

Here is a photo of the base of the same case, which shows the classic Glock FP strike. I load this brass for my Glock 35, which I use in USPSA Limited 10 and IPSC Standard Division. I will be discarding Federal brass in future, only using Winchester and Speer that is the bulk of this once-fired brass.
Mike

 

[444]

I decided to get to the bottom of this once and for all by calling Glock myself. Of course they are now closed. If it is 1334 here, it must be 1634 in Georgia. They must keep banker's hours.
Not that it matters, but I shoot lead exclusivly in all my handguns and most of my rifles. In 9mm I do shoot copper clad cast bullets. I shot plenty of them through my Glock 17 prior to hearing about the lead bullet thing without a problem. I have since purchased a replacement barrel with conventional rifling since I have no intention of buying jacked bullets; I would sell the gun if I couldn't shoot lead and I NEVER sell guns.

 

[Tamara]

the duck of death,

If you do a side by side compairison of a Glock barrel to a Sig or a KKM barrel you will find the Glock has much less support at the 6 o'clock position.

You mean like this?

Between the P-226 .40 and the G23C, one does indeed have more unsupported area than the other, but it ain't the Glock...

 

[the duck of death]

Iv'e done a side by side with the factory Glock 23, Sig Pro 2340 and the KKM replacement barrel for the Glock 23 and the Glock barrel has the least support at the 6 o'clock position. Try it yourself. As I stated you want to fool yourself into thinking the Glock barrel is well supported be my guest, I'm not having any.

 

[Tamara]

Fool myself?

Far from it; I'm providing the evidence. The photograph of the barrels is right there. Rough home measurements were later corroborated by micrometer. The SIG P-226 had the most exposed brass of those three barrels.

Iv'e done a side by side with the factory Glock 23, Sig Pro 2340 and the KKM replacement barrel for the Glock 23

I believe you, but take a look at that picture: you're not the only person who's done "side by sides". Note that a SIGpro 2340 and a P-226 .40 are two different guns, and measurements like that can vary slightly from gun to gun, too. Not trying to fool anybody here, duke; just relating the actual data as taken from G23C #DRZ*** and P-226 #U630*** and Beretta 96D #A169***.

 

[the duck of death]

If you will read my last carefully you will see I'm compairing a Glock 23 (not a Glock 23C), a Sig Pro 2340 (not a Sig 226 40 S&W) and a KKM replacement barrel for the Glock 23. And I'm not using pictures I have all 3 Barrels for a side to side compairison. I stand by my earlier statement, the factory Glock barrel has the least support of the three. As I also stated, you do whatever makes you happy, if I get another Glock I will replace the barrel with a KKM.

 

[swabjocky]

glocks

Since I have had A model 27 blow up 3 times, I think I should say what I think.all 3 times the bullet blew out at the web.I dont know if it was setback or double charges.after the third time,I bought an aftermarket barrel.I do know that after I swapped it for a para,I have had double charges and the gun heldup.I believe I could have thriple charges in my model 14 smith and it would hold up.I refuse to own a gun that wont shoot reloads.when that gun explodes in your hand, a lot of that glock love will fly out the window.


swab