Saw a Glock 21 kB! today

[dawg23]

JKO:

OK - so you found one or two lead factory loads for a semi-automatic pistol. You make my point - you had to search to find the exception to the rule.


Master Blaster:

Ok - you found a commercial reloader in CT ??



Bottom Line- if you are foolish enough to shoot reloads of ANY description, just to save a few pennies, you're asking for trouble. Glock says "don't" - Beretta says "don't" - which part is it that you don't understand ??

 

[Master Blaster]

Impossible Glocks are Perfection, Never Kaboom with FMJ!!!!!

So Please tell us more about the Kaboom, was it a case head seperation?
How many rounds did you have through it?

What type of ammo was it? It was "Factory" Ammo Right?

Could it be that the striker stuck extended and the gun fired out of battery when the slide returned?

Please tell us more

Thanks

 

[Mal H]

Master Blaster - Please re-read the first post. 3 out of 4 of your questions will be answered.

 

[isaidme]

The guy must not have read the glock manual.It clearly says not to shoot lead ammo or reloads.I dont shoot them out of my 1911 either.He should have bought a Barsto if he wanted to shoot lead.Expensive and dangerious way to learn a lesson!

 

[Gewehr98]

Based on dawg23's sage advise...

Taking my Dillon and Hornady presses out to the dumpster, don't wanna get hurt, ya know!

 

[dawg23]

Geezer 98:

Good idea - I'm told parts of them can be recycled into one armed bandits and sold to casinos in Nevada.

 

[M1911]

Gewehr98, don't do that! Someone might take them out of the dumpster and use them, possibly hurting themselves. As a service to you, a fellow gun owner, I'll make this offer to you: send them to me and I'll properly dispose of them

M1911

 

[ryucasta]

The 40 S&W cartridge has the same PMAX as the 9x19 which equates to 35k PSI. So I decided to run the numbers and this what I came up with. Note: I’m aware that the thread Kb was regarding a G21 in 45ACP.

QuickLOAD Results
40S&W N320 4.6 Grains
Montana Gold FMJ
155 Grain 180 Grain
PMAX OAL PMAX
29951 1.120 29284
30645 1.110 30666
31793 1.100 32148
33060 1.090 33824
34453 1.080 35703 180 Exceeds PMAX Matches same OAL as 115 9x19
35955 1.070 37823 155 Exceeds PMAX
37620 1.060 40276
39461 1.050 43004
41506 1.040 46218
43394 1.030 49992
46369 1.020 54489
49290 1.010 59940
52632 1.000 66686

QuickLOAD Results
9x19 N320 4.3 Grains
Speer HP
115 Grain
PMAX OAL
29980 1.120
31130 1.110
32370 1.100
33701 1.090
35205 1.080 115 Exceeds PMAX Matches same OAL as 180 40 S&W
36835 1.070
38638 1.060
40642 1.050
42846 1.040
45406 1.030
48270 1.020
51546 1.010
55334 1.000

Based on these numbers it stands to reason that the setback charge compression problem that one of the posters mentioned earlier will happen at the same OAL for 40 S&W and 9x19.

“One thing that bothers me is the number of people that are switching to 40S&W and then deciding to reload to save money. The 40S&W is one of the few calibers where the margin for error is so small that the number of Kb!'s has to go up.”

BTW these numbers were generated by QuickLOAD Internal Ballistics Software http://www.neconos.com

 

[dustindu4]

Something to add to the victim's defense that Chipperman missed (I too saw the kB!). The victim knew using lead was bad but he uses a hard lead, stays away from the softer stuff. I don't know what bullets he actually uses. Also in his defense he is REALLY ANAL about cleaning it. Every time he gets home after the range he "cleans his barrel so good he would eat out of it". I don't believe that the lead bullets were the cause, it was more directly related to the reloaded bullet. Keep in mind that the barrel and slide are unharmed. It's my opinion that it was a bad casing that fractured when it was fired, or the brass was damaged and wasn't allowed to fully enter the chamber. When you looked down the mag well you could see the casing up against the breech face and not fully in the chamber. The bottom of the casing was blown out, which in turn blew out the innards of the magazine and caused the frame to explode inside out. It was definately the casing or a combination of that and something else. If this was an aluminum framed gun I'm not so sure this would have happened. The pressure caused the plastic frame to buckle which jammed the slide. If the slide hadn't jammed I don't think it would have been so bad. I never buy combat tupperware, Glocks suck! Buy Beretta!

 

[KEN CHAVEZ]

Stupid is as stupid dose!

Hotroding Reloads + lead bullets to save pennies and $500.oo gun gos kuBoom lets see? = awwwdu wat dids i is didds wrongs du!

 

[ryucasta]

Can any of you that have been stating that lead is a no-no with a Glock show some Glock produced documentation that states that?

Because I have read the manual and the Customer Safety Awareness form specifically Line Item 7 and nowhere does it state that discharging lead bullets is verboten it simply states that they recommend the usage factory produced ammunition with no specific bullet recommendation. Seems like another urban legend at work here. Refer to attachment.

BTW, I have fired 10’s of thousands of 40S&W with 180 grain moly coated bullets through a 2nd generation G22 with the original factory barrel and no problems to date.

 

[Powderman]

See thread above.

Call the Glock factory, in Smyrna, GA. These guys won't lie to you.

Don't shoot lead in the Glock, OK???

If you must shoot lead, don't use the factory barrel. Buy an aftermarket barrel with conventional rifling.

But, don't shoot lead in the Glock.

The barrel is designed for jacketed ammo only.

Don't shoot lead in the Glock.

 

[JohnKSa]

ryucasta,

If you really want to know what Glock says about lead, why not call them? I believe that the number is posted elsewhere on this thread.

By the way, the critical difference between the 40 and the 9 isn't the point at which they hit PMAX, it's how much faster the pressure skyrockets with the 180 grain .40 loadings as the setback gets worse.

Look at YOUR numbers...

At 1.03 OAL, the 9mm is still in the pressure range of 9mm +P+, the 150 grain .40 is actually a little lower, but the 180 grain .40 is just about to break 50,000psi, the proof pressure for the .40.

At 1.00 OAL, the 9mm and 150 grain .40 are still in the mid to low 50s, that's really hot, but a good strong pistol might stand up to it for awhile. But look at the 180 grain .40, it's OVER 65Kpsi!

65Kpsi is the absolute SAAMI pressure limit for any cartridge, rifle or pistol. There are no cartridges with SAAMI pressures higher than 65K and that includes belted magnum rifle cartridges.

What you've got in the 180 grain .40 is a bullet that is VERY unforgiving of even minor OAL mistakes or changes.

If you load a 180 grain .40 load that's close to minimum OAL and the bullets are a little too loose in the case, the recoil while they're in the mag, and the force of chambering them can easily push the bullet down deeper into the case resulting in dangerously high pressures. If a person inadvertantly chambers a round twice, for some reason, the setback will be even worse.

Throw in a polygonal barrel and lead bullets and it's just a matter of time...

 

[ryucasta]

Have IQ's dropped while I was away, max PSI for both cartridges is 35K. Anytime you go above that your asking for trouble but then again what do I know you guys are experts.

 

[ryucasta]

Regarding lead bullets, in this litigious society that we live in don’t you think that Glock would have put in writing that lead bullets cant be used in their product hmmm... But then again what do I know you guys are legal experts also Aiya!

 

[ryucasta]

BTW, here’s an example of some of the Glock’s that I own. Between the G34 and the G35 they have had over 12k rounds shot through them within the last 4 months and no Kb’s. So thanks for the insight, but next time you make a statement back it up with real documentation instead of hearsay.

 

[ryucasta]

And on a final note the Glock Limited Warranty states that the "use of ammo other than SAAMI or NATO specs" will void the warranty. No mention of reloads or lead so as long as your 40 S&W or 9x19 load doesn’t exceed 35K PSI they don’t care and they will honor the warranty.

In case you doubt what I'm saying read the attachment.

 

[JohnKSa]

From the Glock owner's manual:

"Only use high quality commercially manufactured ammunition in excellent condition and in the caliber of your pistol."

"The use of reloaded ammunition will void the warranty..."

"Glock will not honor claims involving this firearm which result from...the use of ammunition other than original high quality commercially manufactured ammunition in good condition..."

These warnings are all printed in red, which referred to in the manual: "STRICTLY OBEY INSTRUCTIONS AS PER RED COLUMNS."

From the Glock Armorer's manual:

"Handloaded/reloaded or re-manufactured ammunition may be unsafe and voids factory warranty."

BTW, the Armorer's manual states that in 9x19, the Glock pistols are capable of withstanding 43,500psi. Using ryucasta's numbers, the 9x19 glock is still safe with an OAL of 1.04" while the 180 grain .40 is approaching proof pressures.

Some people go out of their way in a serious effort to avoid seeing the obvious.

 

[dawg23]

Ryucasta:

We're all impressed with your knowledge and your IQ.

However, I (and presumably most of us) consider Glock, Inc. to be THE definitive source for information regarding the operation and maintenance of their pistols.

I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that you will have no trouble calling the Glock factory if you are given their telephone number. SO, HERE IT IS :

****** 770-432-1202 *********

When you call, ask the switchboard for the "Warranty Repairs" section. The Section supervisor is named "Chad" - or you can talk to "Fred."

Please give us a report after you ask Glock .


Dawg23

 

[ryucasta]

You’re absolutely correct the manual does state that reloads would void the warranty, but the warranty doesn’t (Two Seperate Documents) and no where does any of the Glock provided literature state that you can’t use Lead bullets.

Where I come from, that’s contradictory information, BTW attached is a scan of the manual page in question. Just curious did you bother to read the warranty card also?