Mixed-Load Magazines

[Dannyl]

in some instances I do

HI,
on the odd occasion that I carry my Browning HP, my magazines are loaded as follows:
First two rounds are glasers (I make them and they work perfectly)
next 8 are JHP's the rest are FMJ's/

As you can see, I load for "progressive penetration".

Brgds,
Danny

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

With Officer Coats, some stories say the BG was hit in the chest but I also read that the very fat guy was shot in the stomach. That would say that nothing immediately vital was hit.

 

[publius]

Mixing rounds makes no sense, get a good modern HP and go with it. Snak shot is downright dangerous to use. It is not even a good wounding round on smakes. Unless the perp is wearing a t-shirt you probably won't even draw blood.

 

[1911rocks]

Mixed Rounds

You're over thinking this. You are employing deadly force....period. That will be the view in litigation. So, find a good lethal, practical round and use it in a lethal fashion. This is in the "just wound him" arena.

 

[raimius]

I have had a malfunction in a mixed mag.

.45ACP Remington UMC and Winchester PDX1 bonded.
After the hollowpoint, the round nose went nose up in the chamber. I haven't had this malfunction before or since with full mags of either.

 

[johns7022]

It's pretty clear many of you haven't given this much thought...your part of the 'I just don't want to think about it' crowd.

When you dump a magazine into the skateboard punks that decided to push you around at the park, the in your face homeless guy, or the drunk at the bar, because 'you were in fear for your lives'...I want to be there when to try to articulate that to the DA that shows up, trying not to step into the pools of blood...

Or how about a real tactical situation where, your trying to drill the drive by shooter who is behind a car door...ooops...all that really expensive hydroshok, glasier safety slug, HP ammo you bought isn't getting any penetration....

Wandering around town, packing a gun, thinking that in every scenario, HP bullets and the mantra 'I was in fear for my life' will save the day, is really short sided thinking...

 

[booker_t]

It's pretty clear many of you haven't given this much thought

Well for me personally, I've never used a "mixed mag" in a handgun, but I do in a shotgun as the other reply mentioned (slugs and buck).

I typically keep 135gr Nosler HP in the primary handgun (15+1=16). 2nd mag is usually 200gr FMJ-FP (+15=31 total). If I have a 3rd mag, it'll likely be another stack of 135 Nosler or 180gr Bonded Defense JHP (+15=46). Backup piece has the 200gr FPs (+10+1=57).

That gives me several options, and should I decide the FP is better for the job, it's a fairly simple task to swap mags (retaining the first) and rack the slide (or pull the trigger) dumping the chambered HP. Or, switch guns. Yes, I train for it.

What's your opinion of that setup/approach?

PS, Generally speaking, I'm of the opinion that if I can't out-think, out-muscle or out-run skateboard punks and homeless guys, and avoid/descalate bar bullies, then I shouldn't be allowed to own a handgun.

 

[AcridSaint]

My spares have a couple of HPs on the top and FMJ rounds below. My loaded magazine has HP rounds. It is my belief that there are two primary reasons to switch magazines - malfunction or a whole magazine of ineffectiveness. Since it may be a malfunction, I want to transition to more HP ammo, but if I've managed to stay in the fight through a whole mag and need more penetration three HP rounds will just have to go down range first.

My revolver reload is always full-house 357 rounds. A little harder on the follow-up, but if five SWCHPs don't end the fight I have some insurance.

I don't believe in candy striping or anything else of that nature.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Once upon a time, I used to carry Glasers as the first few rounds in a magazine. I was concerned about overpenetration and wanted to limit it as much as possible. I got into a debate with someone here at TFL who disparaged the practice and tried to find evidence supporting it on Google - unfortunately, almost all of the evidence I found went the other direction.

After all Glaser Blue is just compressed #12 shot and Glaser Silver is compressed #6 shot. There are a number of stories of people getting shot by a 12 gauge loaded with #6 shot from across the room and not only surviving but being able to run/jump/shoot back.

One of the stories that stood out in my mind was a 94yr old man who shot himself in the stomach (contact shot) with a load of #6 birdshot from a 12 gauge. He decided to sleep it off and when he woke he was in enough pain that he drove himself to the hospital.

So if a 12 gauge isn't getting it done consistently with #6 shot, I guess it really shouldn't have suprised me that a 9mm loaded with #6 or #12 shot wasn't doing anywhere near that good. In any case, I soon switched to all JHPs.

Personally, I don't know what everyone's personal situation is, so it isn't really my place to decide what is the best load for them to carry. Having said that, I think a lot of people who carry Glaser-type rounds or snakeshot don't have a very good understanding of just how penetration limited they can be. Another factor often overlooked on the Glasers is that the jacket can deform when passing through a barrier (drywall for example), causing it not to release the pellets (Brassfetcher.com has a nice gel shot documenting this). When that happens, it actually penetrates quite well and performs in gel.

My current policy is to carry good modern handgun ammunition that meets the FBI criteria for effectiveness and train hard.

 

[ScottRiqui]

I'm a firm believer in both Murphy's Law and the 50-50-90 rule (if you have a 50-50 chance of making the right choice, you'll pick the wrong choice 90% of the time.)

As such, I have no doubt that if I loaded different types of ammo in a single magazine, the round under the hammer would invariably be the sub-optimal choice for the shot.

 

[AcridSaint]

But, since you already have a 50/50 chance if picking the "right" round for the situation doesn't that mean that you'll be completely limited to the "wrong" round when you make your pick and fill the whole magazine up with it?

 

[Hook686]

I can't imagine those that think of snake shot in defense situations. The idea to shoot to maim/wound/etc. is just a bad idea that is a product of too much tv watching. When a violent threat has met the legal criteria for lethal defensive force, is no time for half measures. If you're not willing to commit at that point, why bother to carry?

I carry snake shot in a .44 magnum revolver when I am out in the outback where I might expect to come across a rattlesnake. The first chamber holds one. The next couple of chambers hold Buffalo Bore Heavy 185 grain .44 Special, the next couple Speer Short Barrel 200 grain Gold Dots and the last chamber holds a 300 grain Hornady XTP.

I carry a S&W 329PD. Chambers 2 thru 5 are for recoil concerns with the lite Scandium/Titanium S&W revolver. The last is a 'Last ditch stand' round, as I do not like shooting this full house .44 magnum round in this light weight revolver. The snake shot is just that. I figure if it is a close encounter, like 10 feet, or less, a snake shot to the face might help ameliorate the threat. If not, the next round is a Heavy .44 Special and the very light recoil of the snake shot is not going to cause much problem.

The snake shot is not to wound, but to be used on rattlesnakes in the field. If a serious threat materializes I would shoot until the threat is eliminated.I know what I load into my revolver. I figure others must also. I seriously doubt anyone loads snake shot into a pistol magazine, or expects it to be effective beyond 10 feet. Beyond that distance I shoot it merely hoping for some effect and mostly to get to the next chamber.

Why is everyone so down on snake shot ? If you don't like it, don't use it.

 

[troy_mclure]

Or how about a real tactical situation where, your trying to drill the drive by shooter who is behind a car door...ooops...all that really expensive hydroshok, glasier safety slug, HP ammo you bought isn't getting any penetration....

actually the 165gr .40 hydrashock will go thru the door of a '60's Chevy belair, and dent metal in the other door.

10 shots at 10' with a 3" barrel, all 10 penetrated the door.

im sure if it will penetrate the heavy sheet metal used in the '60's it will penetrate "modern" car doors even better.

 

[BeerSleeper]

Why is everyone so down on snake shot ? If you don't like it, don't use it.

Not everyone's down on it, but so far in this thread, the premise has been it's use for self-defense, implying (as I have read it) aggressors of the two-legged variety. To that, I say, the right tool for the right job.

Your post was the first one I saw a suggestion of loading snake shot in preparation for use on a snake. I think that's a wise precaution. From the activity you described, you are probably substantially more likely to use your gun to defend against a snake, than anything else, making that a scenario worth preparing for. Too many other posts were suggesting loading snake shot rounds where there is no reasonable chance of encountering snakes.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I have had a malfunction in a mixed mag.

.45ACP Remington UMC and Winchester PDX1 bonded.
After the hollowpoint, the round nose went nose up in the chamber. I haven't had this malfunction before or since with full mags of either.

This is interesting. So can you attribute the one time event to being because of the mixed loading and if so, how did the mixed loading create the malfunction?

If mixed loads can in fact create malfunctions because of being mixed loads, I am guessing that being able to see how the malfunction occurs is going to rely on some slow motion photography.

 

[AFSG]

In the event that I am in a situation where I am forced by another individual to use deadly force to save my own life. I see no need of reguard on my part to provide for his heath in the future.

 

[Mannlicher]

mixed loads are lame, lame, lame.

 

[orionengnr]

Most of the time I see this discussion, it is in the context of either .32 or .380.

IMHO, mixing (or alternating) rounds is a clear sign of either a) indecision or b) lack of faith in your choice of caliber.

I think the solution to that is obvious.

If not, I'll spell it out. Use an adequate caliber.

 

[raimius]

I have had a malfunction in a mixed mag.

.45ACP Remington UMC and Winchester PDX1 bonded.
After the hollowpoint, the round nose went nose up in the chamber. I haven't had this malfunction before or since with full mags of either.

This is interesting. So can you attribute the one time event to being because of the mixed loading and if so, how did the mixed loading create the malfunction?

If mixed loads can in fact create malfunctions because of being mixed loads, I am guessing that being able to see how the malfunction occurs is going to rely on some slow motion photography.

Quite honestly, I am not positive it was due to the mixed loading. However, I have never had a similar malfunction with that magazine or pistol. (DW CBOB with factory mag)


I might try to replicate the malfunction the next time I go to the range with my pistol.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Thinking about this mixed loading issue, it dawned on me that there are mixed loads being used on a consistent basis and apparently without concern that the mixed loads will cause a malfuction. I am talking about those in the military who load tracer ammunition with ball ammunition. The tracer ammo is usally a different weight than the ball ammo and usually has a different velocity. The same goes for adding AP ammo to the mix.

Maybe mixed loading isn't so lame after all.