Is it Time for Israel to Drive out the Palestinians?

AmericaFirst

New member
If only...

More people were like Oleg Volk.
Russia's loss is America's gain.
I have the deepest respect and admiration for Oleg Volk, a man who understands and demonstrates true American patriotism.

People are people. Israelis are like anybody else and I wouldn't want anyone to make blanket statements about the Israeli people just because the Israeli government has in the past and continues to this day to take actions that are inimical to the United States. I know we wouldn't want to be judged by the actions of the Clinton-Gore regime. Similarly with the Palestinians or any other group of people, whether of race or religion or ethnicity one cannot judge an entire group by the actions of SOME.

We are most fortunate indeed to have a human being of Mr Volk's caliber [no pun intended] gracing this forum.
 

AmericaFirst

New member
Some additional facts on the Sharon case

Someone asked why bring up an incident that occurred 20 years ago in which a Christian Phalangist group slaughtered Palestinian women and children and how could it be related to Mr Sharon. I think these excerpts will help to shed some additional light on the subject:
The man who would testify against Sharon is blown up. Was this another targeted killing?, the London Independent
By Robert Fisk in Beirut
25 January 2002

Who on earth would want to murder the key witness for the prosecution in a war crimes indictment against the Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon?

Why would anyone want to car-bomb the former Lebanese Phalangist militia leader and government minister Elie Hobeika in Beirut – less than two days after he agreed to give evidence against Mr Sharon in a Belgian court, which may try the Israeli leader for the murder of up to 1,700 Palestinian civilians in the Sabra and Chatila refugee camps in September, 1982?

Elie Hobeika, of course, will not be giving evidence against Mr Sharon. His body – in bits, some bones blackened by fire – were all that remained of Lebanon's most hated man yesterday, scattered 50 metres from his burning Range Rover.

Call it a "targeted killing"; which, by chance, is how the Israelis describe their death squad execution of Palestinian militants in the West Bank and Gaza.
::snip::
It needed at least four men to assassinate Hobeika – one outside his home 100 metres away to alert the bombers, another to have guarded the car bomb, two more to have "line of sight" and press the detonation switch.

Within hours, Belgian lawyers seeking to indict Mr Sharon – the Israeli defence had only finished giving its reasons for opposing a trial on Wednesday – expressed their "profound shock" at Hobeika's murder.

"Mr Hobeika had several times expressed his wish to assist the Belgian inquiry on the massacres at Sabra and Chatila," a statement from the lawyers said. "His determination to do so was reported widely on the eve of his assassination. The elimination of the key protagonist who offered to assist with the inquiry is an obvious attempt to undermine our case."
 

Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
Here's the problem, as I see it: it takes very few "rabid" individuals in any species to make us afraid of the whole. For example, most folks here wouldn't pet a raccoon, cute as they are, out of fear of rabies. Moreover, if a kid was attacked by a rabid raccoon, every one of that species inthe vicinity would be in danger from the parents (justified or not).

In Israel, something like 20% of the population are recent immigrants who wanted to live in peace and braved many dangers to get to their new home. They find themselves getting killed for no reason that they can understand. Add to this the language barrier (not all Jewish Israelis speak Arabic) and the fact that the tangos (which they are by targeting civilians) are trying to stay inconspicuous, and figuring out good Palestinians from the bad becomes difficult. For the Palestinians, every Israeli reaction is either doing the right thing to the wrong people (if it applies to a whole ethnicity) or the wrong thing to the right people (asassination of invididuals). They can't do anything that won't aggravate the situation.

From the Palestinian view point, they are denied equal rights by the virtue of their ethnicity. I hope that the Israeli TFLers tell us in detail, but I was under an impression that non-Jews who wish to assimilate can do so without much trouble. The likes of Arafat who get their jollies/$$ from being in charge only need to convince a few that the Israelis are responsible to make trouble. And one they cultivate a few "rabid" individuals, the other side would view all as suspect.

Incidentally, the Israeli terrorism of 1947-48 had at least had a goal: it served to drive the British out of Palestine by targeting families of the British personnel. The current efforts by Palestinians have no useful goal as the tragets have no place to which they can flee. Oops.

So, in spite of the good intentions of most people on both sides, it only takes a few nutcases to make for trouble. I have no idea as to whether a solution is possible. Earlier solutions all had problems:

1.Segregation by ethnicity/language/self-choice: not practical as few on either side would be willing to move yet again.
2.Integration through assimilation or intermarriage: I can only hope but that would take too long to do much good
3.Extermination of one side of the other: not practical and not ethically advisable.

Other ideas, anyone? Israeli members, please correct me on any misconceptions I might have.
 

CMichael

New member
Why would anyone want to car-bomb the former Lebanese Phalangist militia leader and government minister Elie Hobeika in Beirut – less than two days after he agreed to give evidence against Mr Sharon in a Belgian court, which may try the Israeli leader for the murder of up to 1,700 Palestinian civilians in the Sabra and Chatila refugee camps in September, 1982? <<

Let's see the war, revenge, retaliation?

In any case Sharon successfully sued Time Magazine for libel when they reported the same made up stuff.

Michael
 

CMichael

New member
I think the problem is that Hamas (the terrorist organization) controls the schools and social organizations in the West Bank.

Therefore they teach the kids to hate and to kill civilians.

I don't like to blame all the people who live in a particular area. However, a large population has been infected.

There is no peaceful solution. The Palestinian leadership's objective is to destroy Israel simply because it's there. There is no compromising with them.

Michael
 

nswgru1

New member
QUOTE:
Who on earth would want to murder the key witness for the prosecution in a war crimes indictment against the Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon?

Why would anyone want to car-bomb the former Lebanese Phalangist militia leader and government minister Elie Hobeika in Beirut – less than two days after he agreed to give evidence against Mr Sharon in a Belgian court, which may try the Israeli leader for the murder of up to 1,700 Palestinian civilians in the Sabra and Chatila refugee camps in September, 1982?

ANSWER:

The same people who have been trying to kill him for the last 20 years. If I remember correctly Mr Hobeika has had something in the neiborhood of 50 attempts on his life in the past 20 years. Seems this time his luck ran out. If I remember this correctly also the number of attempts attributed to the Israelis was 0.

More emotional answer would be that it would be incrediably stupid for Sharon to pull this now.


The problem with the situation in the ME is there are no easy answers. The "palestinians" are not going to give up. Everyone here should at least appreciate the perseverance of these people. Here's what I feel most people miss: Oleg you say that we shouldn't judge the whole by the actions of a few radicals but when the few radicals that you speak of constitute approximatly 10% of the entire population (and I call radical the nimrods stupid enough to strap C-4 to their crotch) the 40-60% of the rest of the population that SYMPATHIZE with them on one level or another present a problem that has no "humane" solution.

The "palestinians" need to take up residence on the east side of the Jordainian River and the west side of the canal.
 

Jeff Thomas

New member
OK, let me clarify something.

I don't believe I stated above that I believe the majority of Muslims are enemies of America and / or terrorists. However, that might have been inferred from my original remarks. If so, I'll apologize for getting a bit carried away.

I truly don't believe that most Muslims are trying to kill you and me in America. However ... I do believe there is a very significant minority of Muslims who have decided to become our sworn enemies. Now, whether that is 2%, 20% or 40% of Muslims, I don't know. But, it would appear to be a rather significant number of people. Significant enough that you don't blithely ignore that pool of individuals.

Or, as a woman at the Manhattan Institute so aptly put it, paraphrased ... "it would be a gross misuse of law enforcement resources to spend our time investigating white, middle-aged Presbyterians ...".

Oleg's rabid racoon analogy is apt, methinks.

So, again, we can play this little game about how we shouldn't pay more attention to young, Egyptian men versus old Latino women, but really ... isn't that pretty silly? This Muslim race-baiting is a bit embarrassing for the sophisticated TFL team ... it reflects how deeply we've all been propagandized by the "Muslims are our friends" hysteria.

Back to the thread ... does anyone think the Israeli's ought to be doing more to promote civilian armed defense? I've heard stories about how great the Israeli's are on that front, but it doesn't seem to be a factor lately.

Regards from AZ
 
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Skorzeny

New member
I agree with most of what Oleg Volk stated previously. Below is an interesting article from Ha'aretz:

Background / Terror resurrects support for separation plan

By Bradley Burston, Ha'aretz Correspondent

Driven by the despair and devastation left by suicide terrorists in the heart of its cities, senior members of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's ruling Likud departed from hardline doctrine Monday to voice support for the Last Resort of Israeli policymaking toward the Palestinians - the erection of physical barriers to separate the two peoples along lines that hawks have traditionally found frighteningly close to the 1967 border.

Led by the settlers of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, captured in the 1967 war, Israeli rightists have ruled out any proposal of physical separation between Israel proper and the the territories, fearing that the defense line would ultimately turn into a formal border between Israel and an independent Palestinian state.

But the furious pace and scope of attacks in recent months have radically altered long-held positions across the Israeli political spectrum. After the Sunday Jerusalem bombing that was the fourth Palestinian terror strike in four days, "There is no longer any readiness to understand it as the weapon of the weak in a conflict, or as a weapon in the hands of a national liberation movement," Ha'aretz wrote in a Monday editorial. "There is no term to describe these attacks other than terrorism, terror intended by those who commissioned it to kill innocent people and to create mass fear.

The separation concept has surfaced a number of times in the past, generally spurred by a volatile cocktail of deadly attacks and deadlocked peace talks. Its advocates have been largely confined to left-center elements concerned about the demographic repercussions of an undivided Holy Land in which the Palestinian population could exceed that of Israel in less than 20 years.

On Monday, however, it was the Likud's hardline Public Security Minister Uzi Landau and the nominally apolitical President Moshe Katsav who declared in separate broadcast interviews that Israel should institute measures of physical separation from the Palestinians in the territories in order to stem the spate of terrorist attacks that has stunned and demoralized the Jewish state.

"One of the foundations of this struggle against terrorism is the concept of separation, which I prefer to call isolation - isolation of the Arabs of Judea, Samaria (the West Bank) and Gaza," said Landau, whose Public Security Ministry is responsible for the police and security within the 1967 Green Line border. Landau said that under his isolation plan, "I am speaking of a buffer, with obstacles in some parts, and fences in areas where it's vital."

"We are isolating them," Landau stressed, speaking of the Palestinians who have waged an uprising against Israel since peace hopes flagged in late 2000. "They will not enter the territory of Israel. They will stay on the other side. We will also take advantage of this buffer to remove all those who have illegally penetrated our side in order to take claim to what they call the 'Right of Return.'"

Earlier on Monday, Katsav said "We should certainly put up a barrier fence that would decrease or block this unbearable ease of penetration of terrorists and vehicles. I am convinced that the scope of terrorist attacks will drastically decrease."

Katsav acknowledged that both the prime minister and Labor Foreign Minister Shimon Peres opposed the concept of separation. But the President dismissed suggestions that his plan was political in nature. "I support a separation which I call 'military separation'," said Katsav. "I do not that this should be called a political line. I am not entering into politcal considerations.

"When we reach an accord with the Palestinians, we can pull back westward from this line," he added. "But at this moment we should put up a military line of separation, which in my opinion should be in Area C, not A or B." Under Israeli-Palestinian peace accords, Area C is land under full Israeli control, while the Palestinian Authority holds nominal control over Area A . Area B is under joint Israeli-Palestinian control.

"In view of the fact that military authorities believe that terrorist attacks will continue for a long time to come, there is no alternative but to block as much as possible the unbearable ease with which they penetrate to carry out attacks," Katsav said.

Landau, meanwhile, attacked the political concept of unilateral separation, as advocated by Labor party doves including former cabinet minister Haim Ramon.

"They're speaking of putting up a fence, with us here and them there, proceeding under the assumption that once a fence goes up, evereything will be all right. This is nonsense. If we are not on the other side of the fence as well, and don't have control over everything that happens on the other side, it will have no value. They'll jump it, they'll destroy it, they'll fire Katyusha and Qassam II rockets, they'll reach us by other means."

Landau said that under his plan, the Palestinians "will be on the other side of the fence, while our security forces control all the area in which they are found." He said that he envisaged a return to the original Camp David positions of former prime minister Menachem Begin, who advocated granting broad autonomy to Palestinians, but under overall Israeli security control in all areas. "This is not a simple matter," Landau concluded. "Anyone who's looking for a magic solution is simply mistaken."

Veteran Labor figure Moshe Shahal, who served as the late prime minister Yitzhak Rabin's public security minister, said that Israeli politicians would eventually come to the realization that separation from the Palestinians roughly along the 1967 lines was inevitable.

"At the time (April, 1995) I used the characterization 'separation space', but to be honest, the plan was more or less identical to the Green Line. And also on questions such as where to place (the Palestinian border town of) Qalqilyah, Rabin asked for a night to think it over, then came back and said 'Adhere to the 1967 line.'

Shahal said that no matter what views anyone held, "We will have to carry out this plan. The question is how much time will take place and - to my great sorrow - how much blood will be spilled, until then."
 

corsair

New member
I think most of us have to understand that in a perfect pan-Muslim world, democracy doesn't exist. Islam is a religion were rule is by THEOCRACY. Which means all or nothing, there's no in-between or compromises. It's nice to harken back to the glory days of Islam, but, those we're different times. Europe was going through its own theocracy, especially during the Byzentine Empire, Dark Ages and Middle Ages. All those eras where rule was governed by the church. Muslims are so ingrained in that belief that their deafening silence of moderation in OBL's quest is seen as support by Industrialized democracys. You'd think they'd study a little history and realize what's before them, as a religion it is a time of REFORMATION. The Islamic faith is at a cross-roads in its beliefs, education and relationship with the non-Islamic world.

Wake up Islam and make a decission, live with the rest of the world or suffer increased persecution through public opinion, self-pity and loathing, and military action through your support of aggression. Work with the world not against it.


Do I care if the Paletinians get squashed? no.
Do I want it to happen? no. Who wants to see people die.
Lively times are ahead, count our blessings theirs a big lake that separates us from there.
 

Malone LaVeigh

New member
It's hard for me to believe that a significant fraction of any population - especially the young - would be willing to murder innocents and commit suicide in the process if they had any hope of a better life. I also can't imagine what effect it has on a people to live for generations in refugee camps while being told that your ancestral land was taken by others.

These young people are the way they are, I believe, because they were betrayed by their own leaders and by the duplicity of the colonizing power. Their own leaders have taught them that there is no possibility of reconciliation and living with the others, and that the only way to justice is through martyrdom. The Israelis have lied and promised negotiated peace while encouraging further settlement of Palestinian land by Israeli settlers.

I don't know what the solution is, but I strongly doubt that forced eviction on a scale not seen since Rwanda will work. Not unless the Israelis learned to be a lot more effective than the Nazis. I also doubt that Sharon believes it is feasible, or I'm pretty certain he would have done that a long time ago.
 

CMichael

New member
Malone the terrorist organizations control the schools and social institutions within the West Bank. Children are taught at a young age to hate and to kill civilians.

Israel has every right to live on its own land. It hasn't stopped arabs from living within major Israeli cities.

I think the mistake Israel has made was being murky when it got the land. It should have immediately sent the residents back to their home countries. Instead, they thought they may return it and that is how this whole mess got started.


Also as far as Skor's article. Israel is a democracy. Members of Parliament disagree. Also the newspapers tend to be left wing as the are here in the US.

Michael
 

Skorzeny

New member
CMichael:

There is NO doubt that many Palestinian children, particularly in the occupied territories, are taught to hate. The hatred is often used by cynical leaders for their cynical and often evil purposes.

But why is there such a fertile ground for that hatred? Has the Israeli policy toward those they subjected been benevolent and beneficial and the Palestinians simply respond with an irrational refusal to be a peaceful part of that golden society?

Have you ever been to the occupied areas? Do you know what indignities the occupied population goes through daily? They go through the kind of humiliations and oppression that would make you shutter your teeth in anger and despair if you were subjected to them. None of that is a justification for terror. At the same time, the terrorism of the Palestinians do not absolve the Israelis of their guilt, either.
I think the mistake Israel has made was being murky when it got the land. It should have immediately sent the residents back to their home countries. Instead, they thought they may return it and that is how this whole mess got started.
Send them back to "their home countries"? Are you joking? Some of the Palestinian families (direct lineage) have been there centuries while most Israelis came in the aftermath of World War II.
Also as far as Skor's article. Israel is a democracy. Members of Parliament disagree. Also the newspapers tend to be left wing as the are here in the US.
Israel is a democracy if you are Jewish. Not so for the Palestinians of West Bank and Gaza. They were never offered the option of becoming Israeli citizens, because the Israeli government wanted Israel to be a Jewish majority country. They were willing to tolerate some Arab citizens (those who did not flee the 1948 war) of the pre-Six Day War border, but not the millions beyond.

You may resort to the ad hominem attack of labeling an argument you don't like "left wing" and dismiss it wholesale, but that's not going to give you much of a credibility. Instead, perhaps you can provide a logical counter-argument that makes sense.

BTW, I provided the article for the sake of discussion. I neither endorse nor reject it.

Skorzeny
 

Malone LaVeigh

New member
The "residents" back to their "own land"? Sounds like the apartheid-era myth in S.Africa that the blacks must have come from somewhere else.

I grant the Israelis have a right to land given to them in 1949. I don't think it was a very good idea, but it's a done deal and they've been there long enough to have a claim to it now. It's also the political reality that the Palistinians better accept if they're ever going to have peace.

But they don't have a right to one acre of land annexed after 1967. Not any more than Saddam had to set up shop in Kuwait.
 

Skorzeny

New member
One more thing...
Israel has every right to live on its own land. It hasn't stopped arabs from living within major Israeli cities.
West Bank and Gaza aren't Israel's "own land." Unless we believe in a dog-eat-dog, might-makes-right world where such concepts as fairness and justice do not matter. Simply invading and occupying land of others and then declaring it as your own does not make it so. If that were the case, the Germans of WWII had every right to their "ancestral" land in Poland and Russia.

Also, Arabs are prevented from living in many areas. East Jerusalem was (and still is) predominantly Arab. To de-legitimatize the Palestinian claim on it, the Israeli government simply does not issue any building permits for Palestinians in East Jerusalem. If any structure is built (or modified, added to, etc.) without the unobtainable permit, it is destroyed by the IDF even if the land happens to be owned by a Palestinian individual. In the mean time, Jewish citizens are offered substantial subsidies from the government to build and live in East Jerusalem. The pattern repeats itself all over West Bank and Gaza.

We may argue about the morality of such policies one way or another, but the facts are exactly that - Arabs are prevented from living in many areas (even being forced to relocate) while Jews are given help and encouragement by the government to displace the Arabs.

Skorzeny
 

Fred Hansen

New member
West Bank and Gaza aren't Israel's "own land." Unless we believe in a dog-eat-dog, might-makes-right world where such concepts as fairness and justice do not matter. Simply invading and occupying land of others and then declaring it as your own does not make it so. If that were the case, the Germans of WWII had every right to their "ancestral" land in Poland and Russia.

Skorzeny,

You can continue to spew this until you are blue in the face. In a perfect world you would be correct, but we all live in the REAL world. You know how that world works as well as I, or anyone else on this board does. Defeated parties do not simply get their occupied territory back after they have been defeated. Even those countries that unconditionally surrender do not get their territory back in some cases, for a very loooonnnnngggg.....time. Ever hear of a place called East Germany? Sure you have.

Is what happened to them fair? No! Is what happened to them ever going to change? NO! How many hundreds of thousands of germans would have been killed if E. Gemans had gone on suicide bomb runs on their Ruskie Komrades? If anything the Israelis are showing great restraint.

Had the Palestinians and their turn-tail chicken$h*t buddies attacked a country that I was in charge of, they would all be in paradise right now. Nuked off the face of the Earth. Actions have consequences. They are defeated. If they are collectively too blind to see that; then they are going to pay an extraordinarily high price.

The Palestinians were offered 95% of what they ceded, through their own notorious cowardice, back. They refused and stepped up their suicide attacks. That mistake has fatal written all over it.

The rationalization that suicide Jihad nuts are driven to commit their evil by reason of poverty is abhorent. Any oppression that they suffer comes from their insistance on adhering to the barbarous practices imposed upon themselves by their insistance on clinging to 7th century theocratic rule. They are free to continue to do so, if they so choose. If they wish to crawl out on that evolutionary dead end of a limb, that is their business. But if the venom that they are currently spewing continues to poison the tree of life, some of us are going to get out a big a$$ pruning saw.

Mohamed Atta was the son of a prosperous attorney. In fact almost all of the people who planned and executed the attacks on American soil were of middle or upper-middle class upbringings. As far as I am concerned, any sypathy on my part for any wholly (or Holy for that matter) muslim cause, died with them.

To put it plainly, they must cease and desist, or die like animals. They leave us no other option. The Japanese Empire thought it was a good idea to give their pilots a half a tank of gas and a one way map. It earned them not one, but two, "Big Sylvania Blue Dots" (tm) in the sky. Hey Arafat! Have at 'er champion.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Last edited at the request of Don Gwinn
 
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Jeff Thomas

New member
Sharon approves hi-tech security plan to seal off Jerusalem in its entirety

By Phil Reeves in Jerusalem
30 January 2002


Israel's Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, approved a plan yesterday for security measures to seal off Jerusalem from the West Bank. The plan is expected to include look-out towers, electronic cameras, trenches and more military checkpoints.

Proposals to fortify the entire metropolis – including its occupied Arab eastern half – came as the city spent another day on the highest alert. Mr Sharon – who campaigned for election last year on a promise of providing security – met senior officials from the Israeli police, army, intelligence services and City Hall to discuss the plan, called "Enveloping Jerusalem".

Events were watched closely by his critics, who pointed out that Israel has been steadily strengthening its political control of the city, and the long military blockade of the occupied territories has, so far, failed to stop Palestinian attacks.

Mr Sharon appears to have rejected police proposals that the plan should include building a wall to separate parts of east and west Jerusalem. He refused on the grounds that it would be tantamount to the re-division of the city – flying in the face of Israeli opinion that it should be their unified capital.

Mr Sharon said: "The plan must be treated as a whole, covering the Jewish and Arab neighbourhoods alike."The Public Security Minister, Uzi Landau, a hardline right-winger, said talk of walls dividing the city was "simply nonsense". He said the plan was an effort to build a barrier between Jerusalem and "the Arab congestion" around it.

The idea of separation has long been debated in Israel, despite the enormous cost and impracticality of disentangling the Arab and Jewish populations – closely entwined in some areas – and despite the 1.2 million Arabs with Israeli citizenship, or ID papers, living inside Israel's pre-1967 borders.


IMHO, at this point in history, all of this talk about how the situation deteriorated is almost pointless ... the Israelis are dealing with suicidal animals who are commited to mayhem. They must take extraordinary action for survival.

Frankly, I think it is the greatest naivete to think this will ever be solved peacefully.

Regards from AZ
 

nswgru1

New member
Skor Quote:

Send them back to "their home countries"? Are you joking? Some of the Palestinian families (direct lineage) have been there centuries while most Israelis came in the aftermath of World War II.


Malone Quote:

The "residents" back to their "own land"? Sounds like the apartheid-era myth in S.Africa that the blacks must have come from somewhere else.


Here is a LINK that you need to take a look at, so does anybody else that thinks that we are dealing only with individuals of "palestinian" origin. What do we do with these people, AND THEIR OFFSPRING?:eek:

Skor Quote:

Have you ever been to the occupied areas? Do you know what indignities the occupied population goes through daily? They go through the kind of humiliations and oppression that would make you shutter your teeth in anger and despair if you were subjected to them. None of that is a justification for terror. At the same time, the terrorism of the Palestinians do not absolve the Israelis of their guilt, either.

Yes I have been to the occupied areas. Please tell the rest of the people on this forum the humiliations and oppression that these people suffer. Please back up your statements with something other than emotionaly charged ambiguity. I venture that most people would see these "humiliations" and "teeth shuttering" "oppression" as legitamate preventative measures against attempted terrorist activities.

Skor Quote:

Israel is a democracy if you are Jewish. Not so for the Palestinians of West Bank and Gaza. They were never offered the option of becoming Israeli citizens, because the Israeli government wanted Israel to be a Jewish majority country. They were willing to tolerate some Arab citizens (those who did not flee the 1948 war) of the pre-Six Day War border, but not the millions beyond.

You and I have discussed this before but I will do it here in public. First: there are Arabs who are citizens of Israel. I hope everybody here realizes that. Second: To my knowlege Israel has not annexed the WB or Gaza. The next logical question is why would you grant citizenship to a group of people that live in an area that you neither own nor really control. An annalagy would be for the US to grant citizenship to the people of the Philippine Islands. By the way attack the argument on this one not the analogy it takes to much time and diverts the topic and I will call straw man if you do.

In closing to this particular topic once again click on the link provided earlier should we grant citizenship to these people also?

Skor Quote:

Also, Arabs are prevented from living in many areas. East Jerusalem was (and still is) predominantly Arab. To de-legitimatize the Palestinian claim on it, the Israeli government simply does not issue any building permits for Palestinians in East Jerusalem. If any structure is built (or modified, added to, etc.) without the unobtainable permit, it is destroyed by the IDF even if the land happens to be owned by a Palestinian individual. In the mean time, Jewish citizens are offered substantial subsidies from the government to build and live in East Jerusalem. The pattern repeats itself all over West Bank and Gaza.

Well you have me on this one for the time being, but I am going to have to claim ignorance on this one. I know that I read an article here in the last couple of weeks about some homes being destroyed because of a lack of building permits but I also remember that the houses belonged to Israeli citizens, not palestinians. Having said that the people in question where arab Israelis. It sounds pretty bad but like I said I have to claim ignorance on building permits in Israel as I also claim ignorance of building permits here in my home state or even my home town so there you go. I also don't have any information available as to the # of permits turned down to arabs compared to the # turned down to "Jews" if Skorzeny has an online source let him produce it.

Sorry for any misspellings I don't have time to spell check.
 
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Don Gwinn

Staff Emeritus
This thread is quickly sliding toward the low ground. Keep it on the High Road, please. No personal attacks of any kind.
 

DaveK

New member
Calling a left-wing newspaper "left-wing" is not ad hominem.

Also, Skorz, aren't we all of us living on Indian land?
 
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