Incident with a dog & pulling out a gun

[roy reali]

re:comn-cents

I find it pretty sad that because you carry a gun that you think this is a situation where you might have to pull it. Having a CCW is not an end all to situations. Is it me or is this just immaturity at it's worst? Did you feel you life was in danger? Did you post this just for a little attention?

Isn't it just as immature to own a dog and not be able to control it. I have dogs and they have never left the property on their own. I have tall fences with very secure gates. Maybe some folks might be trigger happy. But, get mad on the owners of dogs that let them run free. If one of thier dogs is shot, it is there fault as much, if not more, then the person shooting. Unless the shooter goes into the owners backyard to shoot the dog. But that is another story.

 

[Deerhunter]

I find it funny that we (by we I mean some people) are judging or deciding if the OP felt threatened or that his life was in danger. If you weren't there then you have no idea how / what he felt. You can't judge how he felt.

I am not saying the OP should have pulled his pistol, not saying he shouldn't have either. I don't carry (did for a while) working on getting new permit in new state. So I can't say what I would have done if it was me, but I am not going to judge.

I will say that if you felt threatened by the dog then you should have at least had your hand on your pistol. Again dogs close distance faster than you think.

@ roy reali....good for you. I wish everyone would control their dogs. It is the owners responsibility to control their dog. If it comes down to it, I would shoot the dog over me getting bit. I don't have the time or energy to sit in the ER waiting to get shots and stitches.

 

[hardworker]

I wouldn't shoot the dog until I thought my life was in danger of being attacked. The problem is knowing when that time occurs.

What I'm saying is that unless the dog is super aggressive, more than likely it's just barking because you're near its owner. Most dog breeds aren't out for blood, and even if they are, you have to look at how much damage it could do if you didn't do anything. Shooting it should be the last resort. Unless it's a pitbull or some giant German Shepherd, a good swift kick to the nose will probably send him running. No blood shed.

 

[CMichael]

The problem is time.

The dog was closing distance extremely fast.

It's hard to make the right decision based on the seconds you have to make it.

 

[gaseousclay]

The problem is time.

The dog was closing distance extremely fast.

It's hard to make the right decision based on the seconds you have to make it.

i'm guessing you're not a dog owner. dogs will run up to people they don't know....it doesn't mean they're going to attack you. i'm not saying you shouldn't exercise caution but reaching for your gun is going overboard. like I said, the only time I might be frightened of a dog coming at me is if it was a pitbull, and it would really depend on the situation. no offense to pitbull owners out there but these dogs were bred to fight and statistically the ones most likely to cause severe injury or death.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I really don't get posts like this, I don't see this as a TFL topic except that you were packing.

The chances of you having to deal with an aggressive dog or other animal in many areas is multiple times higher than the chance of you ever having to consider using a firearm against another person.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

I think I did make a mistake that at a minimum I didn't have my hand on the gun.

I wasn't there, but if I were in that situation I don't know that my first reaction would have been reaching for the gun.

Short of being mauled, I don't see that pulling a gun (not that you did) or discharging a gun as something that the local PD would think very highly of.

 

[kraigwy]

Abe Lincoln had a run in with a dog, and killed it with a pitch fork. He was asked why he didn't use the other end of the pitch fork. Abe replied "because the dog didn't come at me with the other end".

I take a different approach to dogs. We had a kid bit by a Shepherd. No one knew who the dog belonged to. It got away of course. The doctor said he needed the dog to determine if it had rabies.

Three days animal control searched for the dog but couldn't get close. The Patrol LT. called me on the radio telling me (as a LE Sniper) to go get the dog.

Apparently the doc. said if the dog wasn't caught by midnight he was going to start a series of rabbi shots on the kids.

I go the dog, saved the kids from getting the painful rabbi series. I like dogs as much as the next guy (got four myself I trip over walking through the house) but People Need Protection too.

Dogs bite, sometimes its harmless, sometimes its not, even if the bite is minor, there is a chance of rabies, or if not caught, the chance of getting rabies shots. I'll not let my grandkids go through that.

 

[Alaska444]

The issue in my mind is the same as in a person attacking in the sense of the fear of grave bodily injury or jeopardy of life. As far as how far away, it is likely that the 20 foot rule plus some since dogs are faster than people would apply. Self defense is a valid argument legally but all of the parameters of the legal self defense must come into play. Take a look at where most dog attacks happen and by which dogs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

Most are in your immediate neighborhood and pit bulls and rots are the biggest culprits. Knowing this, with a pit or rot racing toward you aggressively or God forbid 2 or 3 of them, I would absolutely draw and blaze away. Justice in America is more of perception than substance in many ways, so a good lawyer backing up all of the elements of self defense in your story is from what I have heard quite defensible, but it is going to cost a lot of money to do so.

Lastly, standing aggressively up to dogs is a workable alternative that I had to do with a German Shepherd once and it worked. He charged me, I charged him back with a 2X4 in my hands yelling and swinging and he got the message. By the time me adrenalin blindness was gone, he was gone. I never saw him turn and run, but that is what he did. Standing your ground is the first order of the day with any encounter I would think 2 legged or 4. It sends a very distinct message immediately.

I don't think that there are any dumb questions. Carrying a gun is not a natural thing that we grow up with and I would hope a forum like this with people with many years of experience is the place to ask. If not, then I am not sure I would want to stay here.

 

[markj]

Isn't it just as immature to own a dog and not be able to control it.

Yeah, my dogs know whoa, say it and they stop dead in their tracks as a good hunting dog should. Whoa training is key to any type of field dog, specially if you plan on doing any form of trialing.

Still I wouldnt shoot it.

 

[Gbro]

Dogs bite, sometimes its harmless, sometimes its not, even if the bite is minor, there is a chance of rabies, or if not caught, the chance of getting rabies shots. I'll not let my grandkids go through that.

What used to be thought of as a harmless bite is just plane "A Dog Bite"
I just went through disposing of my Grandsons dog that got loose from his leash and bit a man walking by on the sidewalk. He called the police and the dog bit the police man.
The police officer told the man that he would have been justified in shooting this dog. I could not disagree even though he would only lick me, even when the snipping burrs and getting a little pink.
State law then requires the dog to be micro chipped (for proof of ownership) and 7 ft. fenced at all times and an insurance rider. Well the dog had to go. We could not even give it away once the paperwork was started.
What a terrible hard position to be in.

 

[New_Member_Name]

i've asked this question before on here and it went about the same way. so heres my tip on dogs, i dont own dogs, i think dogs are great, but ANY dog bites me, its getting a bullet or two in the head. i dont really have neighbors due to living out in the county, so i'm not worried about getting christmas cards either.

 

[Edward429451]

^ That is a proper attitude, which supports freedom and encourages responsibility. If someone knows the guy up the street will shoot his dog if it attacks him (again?), then guess what? He's going to chain that puppy up!

Happened to me with a shep/Rott mix. He attacked me 1/2 block from my house and I drew a line in the sand and when that dog hit it coming for me, I shot into the grass in front of it and by golly that dogs Alpha got smaller! Next day he was chained up because they heard the shot and feared for thier dog. If guns were out of the question for defense from dogs then the lazy dog owners would know this and not bother chaining up the dogs.

 

[CMichael]

This is the fault of the dog owner, whom should have had her dog under control.

 

[SwampYankee]

ANY dog bites me, its getting a bullet or two in the head. i dont really have neighbors due to living out in the county, so i'm not worried about getting christmas cards either.

Although every situation is different, this is generally my opinion. Every day my family walks a mile up and down our rural road. In a mile, there are maybe a dozen houses? And the road dead ends into a state forest. I have 4 children under 10 years old. We take our 30 pound beagle/terrier mix with us. And I always go armed. Generally I'm more concerned about the coyote and fisher cat activity but if a dog came out of the woods and proceeded to get aggressive, I would likely draw. Firing would be dependent upon the dog's next move, whether I could scare it off first and its proximity to one of the children but with 4 kids, a dog and a wife strung out along the road, I better be damn fast. I suspect that the town cop that lives on my street would be of the same opinion, having had a good amount of of contact with him over the past year.

 

[Irish B]

You trusted your gut and did right. I'm sure if the dog was headed full charge foaming at the mouth it would have been a different story. I always watch for the dogs body language. . most importantly the tail. If the dog looks skiddish and feral then i draw as soon as he's in sight. If it's a neighborhood and just a random defensive dog i hold my ground. I have never been attacked by a neighborhood lose aggressive dog. 99% of the time what sparks attacks on those dogs is people being afraid, defensive, and running away. If you act tough and be aggressive towards the dog almost all of the time they'll stop short or just run off. They're not on their territory so they have no reason to attack other than fear. Just like with a bear. A wild dog or pack of hungry malnourished wild dogs on the other hand is a different story. Shot to kill with them.

 

[roy reali]

Speed

I once was a city park with my dog. She was on leash for several resons, one was that there were squirrels everywhere. I don't know of a dog that doesn't go crazy over them. I just didn't want my dog to snag one.

I was walking between trees when one of those stupid rodents ran right up to my dog. She instantly grabbed it in her jaws. I told her down. She spit it right out. The squirrel couldn't have been in her mouth for more then a few seconds. The squirrel was dead, completely crushed. My female dog is a medium sized dog. I was amazed how fast she destroyed that creature.

My point is this. Dogs can do a lot of damage very quickly. When you are petting your dog remember this, in one second they could crush every bone in your hand without much effort. Not just pits or large dogs. Even your run of the mill labs and poodles can do real damage real fast. Waiting too long to shoot a dog can be hazardous to ones health.

I love dogs. I hope to God I never have to shoot one. If I do ever shoot one, I pray it was the right decision. But, I will shoot before any dog has the chance to get a hold of me or mine.

 

[Jeremiah/Az]

Stand your ground is imperative. Most dogs will chase you if you run from them even if they did not mean to harm you. Pepper spray would be much better than the gun if all else fails.

We have coyotes all over here. While they rarely bite humans, they will go after a small dog that you may be walking. My girlfriend walks her pup, so I got her a can of pepper spray. She has not had to use it, but the coyotes have come close. It works pretty well on BG's too, & yes, I have taught her how to use it.

 

[hardworker]

All I'm saying is that by carrying a concealed weapon, you're also a representative of legal gun owners. The antis already want to portray all of us as paranoid trigger happy cowboy wannabes. Keep that in mind when you blast any dog that threatens you.

 

[noelf2]

The antis already want to portray all of us as paranoid trigger happy cowboy wannabes.

Then let them get bit. Do you seriously think about what the anti's will think every/any time you are in a tight spot?

I think you should have had your hand on your gun (at least), or out and pointed down at your side. Two times I've had to pull a gun on a dog. Once while squirrel hunting, a dog (husky I think) from a construction site over a hill from the land I was hunting came running towards me. I thought he was just checking things out (ears up, head up, tail wagging) but how do you know for sure! When he got within 25 yards I had the bead dead on him, and shouting at him. He stopped, and backed off smartly. I could only think that he knew what I was about to do. Another time, I was walking back from the mailbox, at night. All I heard was something rushing up to me growling, then barking. My gun was on his silhouette, finger on the trigger. Neighbor called his golden lab back at that point, and I believe he was actually watching to see what his dog would do (figuring it wouldn't bite me). Dog backed off when neighbor called him. Adrenaline still rushing, I spoke up to the neighbor and said "I almost shot your dog". He said "I'd have shot you first"! I reported that threat to the police. Never had a problem with that neighbor before that. Fortunately, they moved. I've been voting anti-gun ever since then...