got_the_itch
New member
PPS chambered in .40 would be one to take a look at. And can be had for under 600.
Hardest hitting, smallest concealment gun
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For you guys beating up the KelTec, I have both the P11 and PF9. The work every time I pull the triggers and have several thousand unproblematic rounds through each. They are not range guns but wern't designed for that purpose either. I trust my life to them daily.
Now with that said I would love to shoot a Bonds Derringer set up for the 45 Long Colt/410 shotgun.
Now with that said I would love to shoot a Bonds Derringer set up for the 45 Long Colt/410 shotgun.
Willie Lowman
New member
Glock 36
little guy has some recoil but it is spitting a 230gr JHP.
little guy has some recoil but it is spitting a 230gr JHP.
old_ironsights
New member
Simmerling - nice, but you have to manually eject the fired round and cock it for each shot.
The AMT is almost identical in size/wt and is DAO, thus usable with one hand, and is about 1/3 the price of the Simmerling.
The Simmerling has a size factor of 8.475
The Amt Backup has a size factor of 8.4625
[Mfg Propaganda] The legendary Simmerling is one of the smallest .45 ACP's ever made. This incredible vest pocket pistol has a 5-shot capacity, and the first round is carried in the chamber ready for instant use just like a revolver or a larger frame .45 Auto. The LM4 weighs in at just 24 oz., and is only 5.2 x 3.7 inches in size with a thickness of 1 inch. The LM4 will be produced in limited quantities.
The AMT is almost identical in size/wt and is DAO, thus usable with one hand, and is about 1/3 the price of the Simmerling.
The Simmerling has a size factor of 8.475
The Amt Backup has a size factor of 8.4625
[Mfg Propaganda] The legendary Simmerling is one of the smallest .45 ACP's ever made. This incredible vest pocket pistol has a 5-shot capacity, and the first round is carried in the chamber ready for instant use just like a revolver or a larger frame .45 Auto. The LM4 weighs in at just 24 oz., and is only 5.2 x 3.7 inches in size with a thickness of 1 inch. The LM4 will be produced in limited quantities.
Poseidon28
Moderator
For a good answer, we need a better question. What weight and size do you define as smallest?
Also, at what point does reliability come in, and, do you want to be able to hit anything?
You might be able to keep a full house .357 magnum on a COM target out of a S&W scandium snubby, you might not. NO one can make head shots, and, you might also need a bandaid for that cut finger.
I might be wrong. You might be Jerry Miculack, but, I don't think he'd be asking that question here...
Hardest Hitting is one factor, smallest another. While not mutually exclusive, they do work against each other. As you get smaller you loose hard hitting even in the same caliber.
IE a 1911 in 45 from a 3 inch barrel vs the same round from a 6 inch long slide.
So if you want the smallest version of the hardest hitting gun i'd think the S&W 500 with a 4" barrel would be close to the top of the list.
the hardest hitting version of the smallest gun would probably be the swiss minigun in 2.34 mm rimfire.
Now as to what you really were asking, I assume you wanted some options of small guns in valid defensive calibers.
Now one thing you should realize being new here is that you're very close to asking what the best subcompact pistol is, and that's like asking a group of people what the best ice cream flavor is.
Personally I used to carry a keltec PF9, small enough to be easy to conceal and holding 7+1 rounds of 9mm.
I quickly learned that easy and nice to conceal doesn't mean easy or nice to shoot. I bought the gun over a year ago, and still have marks on my hand from the first time i shot the thing.
Not trying to turn you off the PF9, I still have mine and do carry it sometimes, I'm just more comfortable taking the extra effort to conceal something a little bigger that's more fun to shoot. I'm not a fan of carrying a gun you don't practice with, and if it's fun to shoot, I practice with it more.
There are many other options that I'm sure others will give you, but in the end you'll have to pick, we can't do it for you. And if you have little experience with handguns, I caution you to at least shoot some of those tiny guns to decide if you even like them.
IE a 1911 in 45 from a 3 inch barrel vs the same round from a 6 inch long slide.
So if you want the smallest version of the hardest hitting gun i'd think the S&W 500 with a 4" barrel would be close to the top of the list.
the hardest hitting version of the smallest gun would probably be the swiss minigun in 2.34 mm rimfire.
Now as to what you really were asking, I assume you wanted some options of small guns in valid defensive calibers.
Now one thing you should realize being new here is that you're very close to asking what the best subcompact pistol is, and that's like asking a group of people what the best ice cream flavor is.
Personally I used to carry a keltec PF9, small enough to be easy to conceal and holding 7+1 rounds of 9mm.
I quickly learned that easy and nice to conceal doesn't mean easy or nice to shoot. I bought the gun over a year ago, and still have marks on my hand from the first time i shot the thing.
Not trying to turn you off the PF9, I still have mine and do carry it sometimes, I'm just more comfortable taking the extra effort to conceal something a little bigger that's more fun to shoot. I'm not a fan of carrying a gun you don't practice with, and if it's fun to shoot, I practice with it more.
There are many other options that I'm sure others will give you, but in the end you'll have to pick, we can't do it for you. And if you have little experience with handguns, I caution you to at least shoot some of those tiny guns to decide if you even like them.
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Ace_Breaker
New member
When the thread starter says
I'm not thinking Glock 29 or 30, especially for summer carry. I own the 30 and it's not like it's the thinnest gun to IWB in the world. Great gun, just not the easiest to conceal. The Ruger SP101 is also a nice gun, but at nearly a third heavier than the PPS and Glock 27, nearly 2 inches longer, wider and taller, with fewer rounds, I don't think it would be my pick. And I don't want to carry an extra cylinder sized speed loader in my pocket or on my belt. The Glock 27 is great, but too thick in my opinion to IWB. OWB it is fine with the right clothing. The Glock 36 is the best CCW choice in my opinion. Kahr have a nice concept, but I haven't been too fortunate with reliability or impressed with the craftsmanship. The PPS .40, for me, offers the best of both worlds and sounds pretty close to the question asked. It's got lots of firepower in a very concealable size.
I carry the Taurus PT745 is a 6+1 .45acp and about as small as it gets for a caliber like that.Kahr makes a similier .45 also.
Besides weight,size isnt much of an issue except in the regards of width.
My 1911 full sized commander hides just as well as my small PT745 does,thats due to how thin it is.The 1911 is easier to shoot since its larger and easier to get back on the target.The PT745 can be rough on the wrists and a bit harder to get back on target.
Small .357mag is the other route with a small scandium frame.
I love the 10mm and had a G20 but traded it off as it was too thick to ever conceal properly.
Besides weight,size isnt much of an issue except in the regards of width.
My 1911 full sized commander hides just as well as my small PT745 does,thats due to how thin it is.The 1911 is easier to shoot since its larger and easier to get back on the target.The PT745 can be rough on the wrists and a bit harder to get back on target.
Small .357mag is the other route with a small scandium frame.
I love the 10mm and had a G20 but traded it off as it was too thick to ever conceal properly.
small
Small and powerful.
The four that popped into my mind have already been memtioned: the Semmerling, AMT Backup, the Downsizer, a derringer like a Bond Arms in .357/.45Colt/.45ACP. Each is smaller than any of the others mentioned - but you give up capacity. The Downsizer is probably the smallest very powerful pistol on the list. Are you comfortable with one shot?
Pete
Small and powerful.
The four that popped into my mind have already been memtioned: the Semmerling, AMT Backup, the Downsizer, a derringer like a Bond Arms in .357/.45Colt/.45ACP. Each is smaller than any of the others mentioned - but you give up capacity. The Downsizer is probably the smallest very powerful pistol on the list. Are you comfortable with one shot?
Pete
Poseidon28
Moderator
Depending on type of carry, and time of year:
Detonics CombatMaster
Colt Defender, Colt Officers model Kimber guns in the same size
Kahr PM9, Kahr PM45, Kahr PM 40 Kahrs new .380
S&W scandiums, in .357
Rugers new little guns
500 S&W 2.5" barrel guns
480 Ruger Alaskan
Glock 26, 27, 29,30, 33, 36 and 39
Why doesn't the 39 get more love, and, the 45 GAP
Detonics CombatMaster
Colt Defender, Colt Officers model Kimber guns in the same size
Kahr PM9, Kahr PM45, Kahr PM 40 Kahrs new .380
S&W scandiums, in .357
Rugers new little guns
500 S&W 2.5" barrel guns
480 Ruger Alaskan
Glock 26, 27, 29,30, 33, 36 and 39
Why doesn't the 39 get more love, and, the 45 GAP
Officer's Match
New member
See post #37.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
[1] The Semmerling in .45 ACP
Less than 20 ounces, 3.7 inches long, about an inch wide, holding 4+1 rounds of .45 ACP. It must be cycled manually and is all but unobtainable.
[2] Smith & Wesson 640.
It's chambered in .357 Magnum. It's fairly unpleasant to shoot with .38 Spc. +P. And it's downright nasty with .357 Magnum.
Less than 20 ounces, 3.7 inches long, about an inch wide, holding 4+1 rounds of .45 ACP. It must be cycled manually and is all but unobtainable.
[2] Smith & Wesson 640.
It's chambered in .357 Magnum. It's fairly unpleasant to shoot with .38 Spc. +P. And it's downright nasty with .357 Magnum.
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