Do you use a safety or no safety on your firearm?

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gaseousclay

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All forearms have safety features and procedures that should be used. Wish I could say the same for some folks .....

During our safety classes, we do not teach safety features. What we do teach, is to follow the four safe handling rules and if you have physical safeties present;
"Use them but "never" trust them"

Agree on the safety rules being a prerequisite for any use of a firearm. One of the reasons that I chose a pistol w/o a safety is because of a video I watched from John Lovell, aka Warrior Poet Society. His argument against a safety may only apply to those that conceal carry, but I think it would also apply to any scenario where self defense is necessary, like in the home against an attacker. Of course, there is where proper training comes into play and exercising the 4 safety rules.

In my case, when I store my firearm in the safe I do not put a magazine in the firearm, but I do keep the magazine fully loaded. If somebody forced their way into my apartment all I would have to do is access my firearm, pop the magazine into the magwell, rack the slide and i'm good to go. The chance of a home invasion happening to me is incredibly low but if stress and fear are a factor, I don't want to have to think about whether or not my safety is engaged or not engaged. The other thing I think about is instances of conceal carry. I don't have a CCW but I do have an irrational fear of shooting myself, even though my Vedder Holster covers the trigger/trigger guard.
 

Nathan

New member
Safety - XD, 1911, M&P, Shield

No safety - CW380.....might change to SA 911

Generally, I see the value in a thumb safety. I don’t see how no safety is a good thing.
 

Pumpkin

New member
My carry is a 642 Smith
I have a 5" 2.0 Smith that has a safety and I use it.
I have both a 92 and a 96 Beretta that get carried hammer down, safety off, one in the chamber.
 

totaldla

New member
I ask because my S&W m&p 2.0 is the no safety variant, but as it applies to self defense, I wouldn't want to forget to disengage the safety when fear and adrenaline are pumping and seconds count. I think this boils down to proper training and muscle memory if i'm not mistaken.

My biggest concern though is the firearm discharging when conceal carrying. I'm not sure how often this happens but the last thing i'd want is the gun going off by accident.

So how many of you prefer a safety over no safety on your pistol?
I use the "safety" between my ears. I carry the M&P40c 2.0 and I have no trouble keeping my boogerpicker off the trigger. But I can remember a little trepidation back in 1994 with my first Glock 19 - you'll get over it.

Btw, I really like the TEGE paddle holster.
 

T. O'Heir

New member
"...forget to disengage the safety..." That's what training is for.
Your Smith has a safety. Just not an external one. Just like a Glock, the safety is part of the trigger.
"...the "safety" between my ears..." That'd be the most important one.
 

zukiphile

New member
Garandtd said:
I have avoided certain guns because their safety operates differently than the rest of my safeties. (Ruger SR22)

Ditto. For a short time when I was trying to get away from 1911s, I thought the Browning BDM was an interesting alternative. Then I learned that the safety is swept upward to disengage, the very opposite of a 1911. I didn't think I'd ever be able to get over the impulse to sweep the lever downward as I raised the pistol to a target.
 

44 AMP

Staff
Every pistol I've had, or ever will have must meet one of two requirements, a hammer, or a safety lock (thank you Zukiphile for using the original correct term). And I prefer those with both.

The term "safety lock" used by Browning, Colt, the US Government and many others does not refer to a lock like the internal lock (ILS) system some guns have today. There is no key. "Lock" refers to the fact that the safety remains "locked" in position, the position you select, ON or OFF. It does NOT move until you move it. Most of the older designs also locked the action shut when the safety was applied, but not all of them did so.

Call it manual safety or just safety or even "active safety" I'm ok with that. It's still the "safety lock".
What Glock calls a "safety" is NOT a safety lock. What Glock calls a "safety" I call a "trigger activation switch". :rolleyes:

I'm good with a hammer and no safety, I'm good with a safety and no hammer. I'm happiest when I have both. Without one of the other, I've got no interest in the gun. Am not saying those guns are not mechanically safe, but I consider them less "human safe", because of a more limited range of options.

I am somewhat amused by those who worry about forgetting to take the safety off, and those who decline a gun because it has a safety or choose a gun because it does not, so that its "one less thing to worry about".

Do you drive a car? Can you drive a standard?? ride a bike? walk and chew gum? Feed yourself without missing your mouth?

Do you worry about "forgetting" to use the brake when driving? There are a lot of things in life that require a person to be able to do multiple separate motor skill tasks in sequence or at the same time, and do each of them correctly. Most people are capable of learning to do them.

But make no mistake they are all learned skills. and most of them are skills that, once learned are performed below the level of conscious thought.

In other words, without thinking about them. And especially without needing to stop and think "what do I do?" or "do next?"

It is a long observed fact that most people, when the adrenaline is pumping and you are acting without carefully considering each separate step, will do what they "trained" to do, right, or wrong. And in this instance, "training" means what you have practiced doing, not formal instruction.

I've always wondered at the logic of those who claim having a safety is somehow dangerous. It seems to me that, if you are concerned with forgetting to take it off, the simple fix is to "forget" to put it ON.

You will do what you "train" to do, if you don't train properly/practice enough, that is not the gun's fault or any flaw in the design.

I had a couple of experiences long ago that taught me what I could, and would do without thinking about the details. One, when I was a teenager, shot at running game with a bolt action rifle. Missed. When I went to chamber another round, I found the gun cocked with the safety on. Fired case on the ground at my feet. I had bolted another round into the chamber and reset the safety without being aware that I had done it.

Second one, and a bit more impressive on me was some years later, shot at a pheasant going straight away, a clout shot. punched the safety off pulled the trigger, nothing...did it again, same..did it a third time, nada... (all in less time than it takes to read this) bird sailed away.

Reason for my failure? Borrowed shotgun. I was not using my model 12 which I had "trained on" for a decade, but a friends Browning Sweet 16. I was punching off the safety at the front of the triggerguard, where it is on my model 12, but the Browning's safety was at the back of the triggerguard.

Muscle memory, trained response, call it what ever, in THAT instance it was the wrong thing to do. when all the rest of the time it was the right thing to do.

This is why I think "rotating" different kinds of guns as carry/defense guns is a poor idea.

You get used to doing a certain thing a certain way and getting the expected result. When you change things, it takes time for your body to learn the new method needed without having to think about it.

Drove a standard for several years, went to visit my Dad and borrowing his truck to run to the store for them. Got a very sharp reminder at the end of the driveway, that the clutch pedal and the power brake pedal are very different things! :eek: Yes, I stepped on the "clutch" the way I usually did, but there was no clutch, so it was a really hard stop! Drove to the store and back without trouble but was constantly THINKING about the brake and how to use it in that truck...

Point is, it doesn't matter what system you choose, in the words of one of my old DI's "LEARN IT! LIVE IT! LOVE IT!" and you'll do ok. Change things up, and for a while, you're back to square one and have to start over again.
 

zukiphile

New member
44amp said:
Do you drive a car? Can you drive a standard??
***
Drove a standard for several years, went to visit my Dad and borrowing his truck to run to the store for them. Got a very sharp reminder at the end of the driveway, that the clutch pedal and the power brake pedal are very different things! Yes, I stepped on the "clutch" the way I usually did, but there was no clutch, so it was a really hard stop!

I still drive a stick, and have to be extra attentive when I borrow a car with an automatic. As I slow to a red light or stop sign and don't remember what I am driving, my left foot goes for the clutch that isn't there, I think I've missed it with my foot, and I end up finding the brake pedal with far too much force. I haven't been rear-ended yet.

I assume I could be trained out of that with time and more familiarity.

44AMP said:
I've always wondered at the logic of those who claim having a safety is somehow dangerous. It seems to me that, if you are concerned with forgetting to take it off, the simple fix is to "forget" to put it ON.

I believe conclusions about this revolve around training and risk assessment.

The "appendix carry and no manual safety" people are optimizing the way they carry for a very close physical altercation, what I would describe as a fist fight that devolves into a ground fight. They tell me about how fine motor skills are all lost under stress. Fine.

I think there is a greater risk to me than me being on the ground, getting to my pistol and trying to pull the trigger without first having disengaged the safety lock. That greater risk includes me holstering and getting the trigger caught on something, holstering under stress with my index trigger still on the trigger, sudden stress contracting my whole hand (including my index finger), or me thinking that I've rendered a pistol safe when I haven't. Each is an error within my control, and is also an error people make commonly. I believe I am more likely to be injured or injure someone else as a result of a common error than I am by the extraordinary circumstance of an old man (me) wrestling and forgetting to sweep off a safety switch.

Zuk, you can address those dangers in training. Only to a degree. I don't train to drop glasses or pens, or trip on obstacles, or catch my fingers in drawers, but these things happen. A switch by my thumb that connects to a simple binary "fire/don't fire" part of my brain adds a layer of transparent deliberation in an activity that merits it.

ride a bike?

Below is a video of people performing a simple task, bicycle riding, that has been complicated by an unconventional control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0

The conclusion is that an easy task can be made nearly impossible with an unfamiliar or unconventional control. I wonder how much of the "this safety will get you killed in a fight" sentiment comes from people who were first trained on pistols without 1911 style safeties.
 
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TomNJVA

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I have never been in a situation where my life was in imminent danger so I do not know how I would react. I would like to think that I would be cool as a cucumber with my brain operating at peak precision as I have been in other less dangerous situations, but at my age (70) panic and brain freeze are possible - I just don't know. Therefore I want my pistols in "pull-bang" condition, i.e. I pull the trigger, it goes bang. No safety, no thinking, no muscle memory, just point and pull.

My two carry guns are a SCCY CPX-2 9mm and a Ruger LCP II .380. The SCCY is a DAO with no safety and I usually carry it in a Fobus OWB paddle holster, although with its heavy trigger pull I am comfortable carrying it sans holster in an empty coat pocket in cold weather.

The Ruger, however, is an SA trigger with no manual safety lock. Since I carry it chambered it never leaves the holster when carrying. If I remove it from the holster for cleaning or show I treat it with kid gloves and immediately unload it. I recently switched from the Ruger holster to a Boraii holster which securely snaps over the trigger guard and leaves the magazine and slide free to operate so I can load and unload more safely. Yes I have to remember to remove the holster when shooting, but that is a lot more obvious than hunting for a little safety switch in a panic.
 

Kevin Rohrer

New member
The 1911 was designed to be for safe carry and use. Am happy w/ its two manual safeties.

I also wish that people who carry a weapon would get proper training w/ it so topics like this would not exist.
 
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I use to be a big advocate of using a safety when I carried light striker fired firearms. Then made a decision to master the DAO and never looked back. All my carry guns are DAO and that suites me just fine. No nonsense about trigger resets for each gun, hearing a reset and just the way the gun culture has moved to such light triggers as the only way to carry. Just not me. And I shoot them as well or better than I did with the lighter triggers and shorter resets. Just no need for them. Now no safety to think about, all my EDC guns of which I have a dozen all DAO and feel so similar when shooting.
By the way, I very seldom shoot for Bulls Eye. All my training is fast or rapid fire to center mass, point and shoot.

As Hickcock45 made a comment. "Some of these triggers on these new guns are like Target guns". I agree. No need for a target gun.
 
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rc

New member
Well, when you purchased that gun, you made the decision not to have a manual safety. With a single action like a Browning HP or 1911 you only would even get to use the safety if you carry cocked and locked. Some may carry a single action auto safety off on half cock with with series 80 and be pretty safe as a carry option. I'm not a fan of glocks or other short action striker fired semi auto pistols but I am of guns like the Sig 226 series or CZ 75 variant with a decocker only variant or long trigger pull Kahr if you can find a reliable one. Those guns have a long enough trigger pull, the chances of accidental discharge are about the same as a double action revolver especially if you choose a good holster that covers the trigger during carry. Choosing a carry gun for most people with little experience shooting is often confusing and people don't always make great choices for CCW use eventually choosing to buy something they are more confident to carry. A lot can be said about a double action 38 for the average Joe or Jane as a best carry option. Most people get caught up in caliber or magazine capacity decisions when really the type of action is the biggest decision for safe carry.
 

gaseousclay

New member
I also wish that people who carry a weapon would get proper training w/ so topics like this would not exist

What’s wrong with the topic? I think choosing between a safety vs no safety is a personal choice depending on use. I don’t conceal carry so it’s not an issue, but someone looking to purchase their first firearm would have to take this into consideration. In MN gun owners are required to take a CCW safety course to obtain a permit.
 

44 AMP

Staff
Just my opinion, but if you have to "hunt" for the safety, I think you're in need of more practice.

Likewise I can see no earthly reason to need to holster a pistol in a hurry.

If your level of skill or your dedication is such that you need to keep things as simple as possible, I would recommend the revolver where you don't have that complicated magazine thingy to worry about as well. Or possibly a single shot, so you don't need to worry about recoil and those pesky follow up shots...:rolleyes: (yes this is sarcasm)

Seriously Train with what you have, and get to know it, when its right, and when its not, so you don't have to "hunt" for the controls or stop and think about them. Do that before you put yourself in a situation where your life is at risk.

Do anything else and you're just cheating yourself.
 

JDBerg

New member
My Glocks each have a trigger safety, firing pin safety, and a drop safety. These do not need a thumb safety.
My 1911’s each have a thumb safety and a grip safety, these do not need a firing pin safety (trust me on this).
My BHP’s have thumb safeties
My CZ 75B has a thumb safety and a firing pin safety
My HK P30 and P2000 have firing pin safeties, these don’t need thumb safeties
My HK45 has a firing pin safety and a thumb safety which I don’t mind having on this gun
My SIGs have firing pin safeties and don’t need thumb safeties.
 
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zukiphile

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JDBerg said:
My Glocks each have a trigger safety, firing pin safety, and a drop safety. These do not need a thumb safety.
My 1911’s each have a thumb safety and a grip safety, these do not need a firing pin safety (trust me on this).
My BHP’s have thumb safeties
My CZ 75B has a thumb safety and a firing pin safety
My HK P30 and P2000 have firing pin safeties, these don’t need thumb safeties
My HK45 has a firing pin safety and a thumb safety which I don’t mind having on this gun
My SIGs have firing pin safeties and don’t need thumb safeties.

If a firing pin safety suffices on some pistols, why wouldn't it have sufficed on a Glock?

That leaves unanswered what works best for you.

I've read that german hostage rescue guys at some point in the last several decades carried BHP's cocked with the safety off. Sounds nuts to me, but I don't number hostage rescue amongst my amazing talents.
 
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