I've made the same point in reply to 223, M1 Garand and optimal assault rifle round posts, arguing for a 30-30 with redesigned rim (rimless) and spitzer point... I forgot about the .30 Rem...I also suggested the 7-30 Waters (30-30 with 7mm bullet) with spitzer and redesigned rim...and sounds like the current 6.8 NATO discussion would yield a similar result. Yes, the whole idea of a "30-30" or 7-30 Waters designed for auto load operation sounds like a stellar idea, and have always felt the 30-30 superior to the 7.62x39 (and is slightly larger anyway). A lot of WWII, Korean (and even early Nam/M14) GI's wished the US Gov't would have given a lot more thought to this kind of thinking in the development of what became the (cursed) overly large, heavy and limited firepower'd M1 Garand (albeit powerful and accurate--but aspects often not needed in the amount delivered by the Garand, at least by many troops in many, many combat circumstances vs often more desired characteristics of firepower, medium and close range utiity and wieldability/portability, i.e., something between the Garand and the M1 Carbine).
Why not .30-30 semi-auto?
- Thread starter skinnygun
- Start date
TPAW
I think someone is now getting the 7.62x39 confused with the 7.62x54R.
IMO as regards to the 7.62x39 vs the 30-30, in their most popular loadings for their most popular applications, there's really not a significant gap as Artsmom pointed out. And within their useful ranges, assuming the actual bullet is matched to the quarry, there is not going to be beast or man on the receiving end that would know the difference between them.
Where the 30-30 will have a significant edge IMO is with much heavier bullets. The 170 grain Nosler Partition loading by Federal for instance is going to be up to tasks that no factory 7.62x39 loading can reasonably be expected to match.
I think someone is now getting the 7.62x39 confused with the 7.62x54R.
IMO as regards to the 7.62x39 vs the 30-30, in their most popular loadings for their most popular applications, there's really not a significant gap as Artsmom pointed out. And within their useful ranges, assuming the actual bullet is matched to the quarry, there is not going to be beast or man on the receiving end that would know the difference between them.
Where the 30-30 will have a significant edge IMO is with much heavier bullets. The 170 grain Nosler Partition loading by Federal for instance is going to be up to tasks that no factory 7.62x39 loading can reasonably be expected to match.
ghettopettingzoo
Moderator
I dont know who would use a 240 weatherby on a deer i break out the .300 when it comes to something needing to die.
7.62x39 has approx. 1552 ft lbs of muzzle energy with a 125 gr bullet
.30 -.30 has approx. 1900 ft lbs of muzzle energy with a 150 gr bullet
But after 200 yrds the 7.62x39 surpasses the 30-30 with approx. 880 ft lbs of energy compared to 850 ft lbs of energy.
All of this info is avalible at Remington.com
.30 -.30 has approx. 1900 ft lbs of muzzle energy with a 150 gr bullet
But after 200 yrds the 7.62x39 surpasses the 30-30 with approx. 880 ft lbs of energy compared to 850 ft lbs of energy.
All of this info is avalible at Remington.com
tintcutter
New member
I think the savage 99 lever action had a rotary magazine that allowed other types of cartridges.
Terminology
The 6.8mm SPC is not now nor will it likely ever be NATO.
A lot of great suggestions here, though we may have wandered a little from your question (civil diversity of opinion is the strength of any forum ), for slightly better performance over the 30-30 with the same bullet weights the 308 is the middle-weight champ.
The 6.8mm SPC is not now nor will it likely ever be NATO.
A lot of great suggestions here, though we may have wandered a little from your question (civil diversity of opinion is the strength of any forum ), for slightly better performance over the 30-30 with the same bullet weights the 308 is the middle-weight champ.LAK, I was going to say the same thing...
But a "short-stroked" .30-06 would actually be the .308 Winchester, aka 7.62x51mm NATO round. No way on Gawd's green earth I'd compare a Soviet M43 7.62x39 round to the .30-06.
The Standard Model G was the .30-30 that was an autoloader. It could also be switched to pump-action, a practice which evidently happened a lot. The Standard Model M was a pump-only gun.
I have the rimless .30-30 ammo and gun, it's called the .30 Remington, and fired in the Remington Model 8 and later 81 rifles. It was also used in the pump-action Model 14 and later 141 rifles.
The new 6.8 SPC is based on the old .30 Remington case, but is significantly thicker in construction to allow higher working pressures than the old Model 8 Remington would appreciate.
But a "short-stroked" .30-06 would actually be the .308 Winchester, aka 7.62x51mm NATO round. No way on Gawd's green earth I'd compare a Soviet M43 7.62x39 round to the .30-06.
The Standard Model G was the .30-30 that was an autoloader. It could also be switched to pump-action, a practice which evidently happened a lot. The Standard Model M was a pump-only gun.
I have the rimless .30-30 ammo and gun, it's called the .30 Remington, and fired in the Remington Model 8 and later 81 rifles. It was also used in the pump-action Model 14 and later 141 rifles.
The new 6.8 SPC is based on the old .30 Remington case, but is significantly thicker in construction to allow higher working pressures than the old Model 8 Remington would appreciate.
.30-30 auto
There has never been a real problem getting .30 Rem. cases to reload,a .30-30, .32sp.or .25-35 case is easily modified for .30 Rem, just chuck up in a lathe or 1/2" drill press, use a file to turn down the rim and a hacksaw blade to make an extractor groove., same for .25 and .32 Rem. cases. Anneal and resize.
Don
There has never been a real problem getting .30 Rem. cases to reload,a .30-30, .32sp.or .25-35 case is easily modified for .30 Rem, just chuck up in a lathe or 1/2" drill press, use a file to turn down the rim and a hacksaw blade to make an extractor groove., same for .25 and .32 Rem. cases.
Anneal and resize.Don
To those touting the 30-06 and 308, no-one's arguing they won't beat the 30-30 (or 30 rem) or x39 "hands down" at any range--of course they will, but at a severe high weight/low capacity penalty...the question is usefulness in an assault or battle-type rifle where weight and handiness and firepower/capacity is a question (thus the reason for the M1 Carbine originally, but--though I am the proud owner of two GI Inlands/great guns both, not enough oomph in this discussion)....so the question comes down to, what round makes the most sense SHY of the 06 and 308...since, proven tho they may be, very heavy, low capacity (ok I'll give you the 20 rd M-14 mag, but did I say heavy?), high recoil formats. My guess would be the perfect "tweener" would be the 30-30 "auto" (i.e., rimless .30 Rem) with spitzer point--i.e., a "better 7.62x39." Next vote would be the same in 7-30 waters configuration (7mm in a 30-30 case) but rimless (What actual round out there would that be?--I assume still smaller than the 7mm-08 which is a necked down 308). Format/size would be a rifle somewhere right in between an M14 and M-1 Carbine (sounds like an AK or Mini 30 doesn't it!), directly proportionate/commensurate with the difference between those two rifles' ammo sizes.
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Colduglandon
New member
I recall a friend of mine had a 30 30 bolt action back in the late 60's. I believe it was made by Savage. Real bare bones gun.
Saw a deer that was shot with an SKS several years ago. I recall the young man saying the deer was over a 100 yards away. There were around 6 to 8 bullets in the deer. Some of them barely penetrated the hide. His cousin had to drop it with an old Mauser, 8 mm I think it was. Maybe it was the distance, maybe it was the ammo, but I don't think the SKS is a good meat gun. Just my opinion after helping gut and skin that deer. But it was a heck of a buck, weighed in at over 200 hundred pounds after we field dressed it.
For deer, I will stick with my 3030 close in, or my shot gun. If I have to reach out I prefer my old '06 with a scope; old eyes.
Saw a deer that was shot with an SKS several years ago. I recall the young man saying the deer was over a 100 yards away. There were around 6 to 8 bullets in the deer. Some of them barely penetrated the hide. His cousin had to drop it with an old Mauser, 8 mm I think it was. Maybe it was the distance, maybe it was the ammo, but I don't think the SKS is a good meat gun. Just my opinion after helping gut and skin that deer. But it was a heck of a buck, weighed in at over 200 hundred pounds after we field dressed it.
For deer, I will stick with my 3030 close in, or my shot gun. If I have to reach out I prefer my old '06 with a scope; old eyes.
Semi-autos, by their nature are a bit heavier than the typical Winchesater lever gun.
If you don't want a lever gun, but like the .30-30 cartridge, try to find a used Remington 788 Bolt action in .30-30. There are still a few around.
For short and light, the Remington Model 7 bolt action in 7MM-08 or .308 is also an excellent dhoice.
If you don't want a lever gun, but like the .30-30 cartridge, try to find a used Remington 788 Bolt action in .30-30. There are still a few around.
For short and light, the Remington Model 7 bolt action in 7MM-08 or .308 is also an excellent dhoice.
I have used the 7.62x39 yugo for years for javalina and small game. I also own a 30-30 and '06 and 35 remington for all my smaller close game but the 7.62 is cheaper and more practical for me. plus the simi auto helps after the first miss. If you are looking for 200+ yard shooting you are going to fall short with all but the '06, this is where my 300 wheatherby mag comes in to play. In my opinion the best long shot rifle, but that is just my 2 cents.
greeneggsnham
New member
why? simply because red blooded americans love the thirty thirty. my buddy killed a nice doe this past sunday with an old springfield bolt action thirty thirty, and stevens made one as well. i found one locally but they wanted a hundred bucks too much for it. not an auto, but an alternative to the lever.
chemist308
New member
as said, rimmed case. I think someone else here said if US done away with the rim in WW2 and made it in select fire rifle our country would have had the first real assault rifle...