What Federal Told Me About Nyclad

[walnut1704]

"High recycling costs" sounds like an environmental issue.

Anybody that works in manufacturing that utilizes chemicals/VOC's will tell you these rules change constantly. And they never get simpler and less expensive. On top of that liability insurers are paranoid about long-term environmental liability. Between the EPA, OSHA, and the insurers lots of things are no longer possible that used to be common place.

 

[kcub]

I like those kiss of death lipstick loads.

 

[44 AMP]

I am not buying the company line....coatings have gotten easier since then

"High recycling costs" sounds like an environmental issue

Maybe the "home coatings" have gotten easier, but that doesn't apply to industrial use.

There are a HUGE amount of regulations that apply to industrial use, storage, and DISPOSAL of chemicals that home users never have to worry about, often ones they don't even know about.

These can, and do have a tremendous impact on the cost of industry in the US.

As an illustration, the jug of drain cleaner you can buy at the supermarket and pour down your home sink COULD result in TENS of THOUSANDS of DOLLARS in fines, if poured down a sink at work. I am NOT kidding. If the item in question contains chemicals on certain lists, its use in industry is regulated "from cradle to grave" and this COSTS.

Following all the laws and regulations, one pint of left over "nylon" scrap might cost thousands of dollars to dispose of. Specific details matter a lot, but it is entirely possible given the right situation. The home "coater" doesn't deal with this.

IF Federal (or anyone) says it got to expensive to make, I would believe them. MAYBE you can do it at home, and do it cheaper, but don't think you could use the same process and just scale it up for volume, the law will not let you.

IF ANY of the chemicals in the compounds being used is listed as "hazardous", "Toxic" or "suspected carcinogen", a business has tons of hoops they have to jump through (including worker right to know training, and PPE, all of which costs) that the home user doesn't.

IF it wasn't exempt because it is listed as a "food" ordinary table salt would be a highly regulated material, because of the hazardous chemicals in it!

 

[kcub]

Can one not just buy coated lead bullets? Seems like that would be less hazardous to ship and handle than exposed lead bullets.

Why couldn't Federal just subcontract that operation out? A very standard business practice.

 

[Cosmodragoon]

So maybe this is just another one that we can chalk up to...

"Thanks, government!"

 

[JohnKSa]

These can, and do have a tremendous impact on the cost of industry in the US.

No kidding. The company where I work, among other things, paints aircraft. The upper limit on how many aircraft the company can paint in a given timeframe is based purely on legal restrictions on chemical use and disposal.

In other words, the limitation isn't equipment, materials, facilities or manning, it's the government stating that it's illegal for the company to use/dispose of more than a certain amount of chemical X required for the process in a given timeframe. That translates directly into a limit on productivity and schedule which means cost and schedule impact passed directly to the consumer.

And it's going to get worse. Much worse.

 

[44 AMP]

People make a lot of noise about the "cost" of doing business in the US, and they are right, but only PART of the cost is taxes and wages. A big chunk are the hidden costs of regulatory compliance.

Every business if affected in ways large and small. Many (most?) don't even realize it, as these things have a definite ripple effect.

One SMALL effect some here might be familiar with is the HazMat fees charged to us for shipping powder, primers, and some other things. It took the shipping companies quite a few years to figure it out, but ever since they did, we get to pay extra for what the law makes them do, anyway.

The bullets in our guns, the paint on your mountain bike, to the toner in your office copier or the cup your coffee comes it, everything is affected, and the costs are ultimately paid by us.

 

[HiBC]

Here is what I suspect,but I don't know for sure.
There is a molding process called co-injection.Two materials are injected into a mold.The first material forms the outer skin within the mold,the second forms a core.
A typical nylon injection temp is around 450 f deg.
In other words,it may well be that an area of the factory was set up for an adaptation of plastic injection molding technology...which is an entirely different process .
It has different requirements for electricity,hot water temp controls,drying the nylon,etc...A different material and wastestream,different maintenance and tech expertise than the presses that punch and form conventional bullets.
Grand business stream of things,it may not have justified the real estate and overhead for a niche product,even if it was a good product.
That is my guess

 

[michael t]

For years I have carried the old 158Gr LSWCHP +P Never saw a reason to change. My 4 older S&W snubs are still sighted for that weight bullet and has proven to work on street. . I don't buy the latest and greatest bullet to come out this week .

If a man was to buy all the newest and best guns and ammo that come out in last few years with the concealed carry laws. He would be in poor house.
Seems every month we get a new pistol or a new wiz bang bullet that travels almost light speed weights 80gr and will blow hole size of a soft ball thru you Because spinning at 900,000 RPM. Oh and won't go thru dry wall . Will go thru up to 1/4 inch steel plate . In case BG wearing a suit of armor And no hearing protection needed.

 

[UnkBK]

My Sundaygotomeeting carry. Still hava a few boxes left of the 125gr left.

 

[kmrcstintn]

I'm aware this is an older inactive thread; with that said...

currently have a variety of 38 special hollowpoint ammo in my stash for the rare times I bring out dad's S&W 642 or S&W 686 Powerport (inherited them after he passed):

Federal 110gr Hydrashok non +p, Remington 125gr Ultimate Defense 'Compact Handgun' +p, Federal 125gr Nyclad non +p, Remington 125gr semijacket hollowpoint +p, Hornady 158gr XTP non +p, Speer 135gr Gold Dot 'Short Barrel' +p, Hornady 125gr XTP non +p

used to have until recently: Hornady 90gr Critical Defense Lite non +p, Remington 158gr semiwadcutter hollowpoint +p

by far my favorite snubby load is the Federal Nyclad...with it being discontinued I use the Federal Hydrashok non +p in its place most of the time; right now dad's snubby is doing home defense/personal defense duty while several semiautos go to the range for a practice session...it is loaded with Nyclads since I'm feeling nostalgic!

snagged several boxes of Nyclads in 2009-2010 before they disappeared...I had them with me once while at hunting camp and one of the other fellas thought they were 'Black Talons'; I lightly chuckled, told him what they were, and a light bulb went on once he googled it!

 

[Cosmodragoon]

No worries, kmrcstintn. Just because nobody has posted here in a while doesn't mean that we stopped missing our Nyclads! You are lucky to still have some. I keep an eye out at gun shows but they are still popular enough that they get snatched up in a hurry.

I'd been using the standard-pressure Silvertips and they are alright. You mention liking the Hydra-Shoks. Maybe I'll try them out next time I buy .38 ammo. Of course, it could be a while. The LCR 327 has largely retired my .38 snubbies. The 85-grain Hydra-Shoks in .327 recoil like .38 +p but they hit harder and there are six of them!

 

[deerslayer303]

I've got a bunch of Nyclads that were given to me. I've never tried them. My 36 is always loaded with hydrashocks. I'll have to go dive in the can and see how many I do have. I know its a couple hundred or so.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I've retired the last my my Nyclads and have them in a box to be shot at the range.

Mine are going on 20 years old, and there's simply no sense in keeping them in my carry or house guns any longer.

 

[roaddog28]

Wow, this is a old thread. The Nyclad from Federal has not been production for years. I shot my last box back in 2009. I doubt that Federal will ever start producing this round again. There are better options now. Spear gold dot, Buffalo Bore standard pressure LSWCHP, Buffalo Bore Cast 150gr which is design for snub nose revolvers and other good options. There are ammo tests on U tube that show many of these rounds.

I don't own a snub nose revolver anymore but my last one a S&W 36 1 7/8 barrel was loaded with either Buffalo Bore Cast wad-cutters or sometimes just a good flat lead wad cutter. A person can load the wad cutters them-self and have a decent round to carry.

Bottom line: The Nyclad by Federal is a dead issue in my opinion.
Howard

 

[Cosmodragoon]

Sure, new technology is out there. Having a soft hollow point that expands at relatively low velocity and maintains light recoil is still novel in my opinion. Here is a gel test for those of us stuck in the past:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQDayqBiIDk

BTW, Mike Irwin, there have been discussions elsewhere about when or if a defensive load gets too old. I know "plastic is forever" but can change over time. Does the coating on these get brittle with age or anything?

 

[mete]

My few rounds of 9mm Nyclads are in a S&W box and are 125 gr HPs .

 

[Mike Irwin]

The biggest concern is oil vapor contamination that can degrade either the powder or the primer.

 

[Osuvet85]

Nylon clad rounds

This may be entirely different since they are not marketed as self defense rounds, but Herters sold at Cabelas has a line of blue nylon clad ammo. What does the nylon coating do for the round?

 

[Cosmodragoon]

What does the nylon coating do for the round?

In the case of Nyclads, softer lead is used to promote expansion at lower velocities. Because softer lead would also promote the deposition of lead in the barrel, a nylon coating was employed to prevent that from happening.

I wasn't familiar with Herters. Thanks for sharing. It seems that Herters has taken things a step further and is offering the nylon jacket as an answer to copper fouling. However, it doesn't say anything about softer lead or better expansion. In fact, it looks like they only offer these in solid bullet designs.