What Federal Told Me About Nyclad

[jimbob86]

The fact is that a 125gr bullet at ~850 f/sec is ..... well, though better than harsh words, you can easily carry something with more oomph, less recoil, and more capacity, and carries easier (IME) than a .38 snub........ the tiny niche market for this round would not justify the extra production costs, or they would still make it.

If you really like something, learn to produce it yourself. Otherwise, it may vanish from the market for no apparent good reason and you're outa luck ......

 

[Model12Win]

Good thing though that Speer still make the .38 special +P 135 grain Gold Dot Short Barrel load. When they stop cranking that stuff out, I'll be pretty upset.

 

[PatientWolf]

I'm sure the cost is much higher than standard bullets-cast or jacketed.

A manufacturer has to consider other costs than the home brewer. Small lot sizes may mean lost production time due to changing in and out of a product. The bullet may require different sets of tooling-another cost. Low demand may create higher caring inventory.

If they replaced a significant portion of their products and had distribution commitments, I'm sure the cost difference wouldn't be great, but I don't think these made it to the mainstream demand needed to drive lower cost.

On a separate point, can anyone comment on whether the coating left any fouling in the barrel?

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Good thing though that Speer still make the .38 special +P 135 grain Gold Dot Short Barrel load. When they stop cranking that stuff out, I'll be pretty upset."

I sincerely doubt that it's going away any time soon.

A lot of people like to look down their noses at snubs, considering them weak, archaic, out of place in the modern world, etc.

If that were TRULY the case, and they had been passed buy, gun companies wouldn't be selling the absolute hell out of them.

As of a few years ago, snubs were VERY competitive sales wise in the pocket gun market.

Seems as if not everyone agrees that they're obsolete, and not everyone agrees that they absolutely have to have the latest, mostest wonderfulest 9mm that's 1/4mm thick, 1/4mm high, and holds 87 rounds in its magazine...

I've got a gunsafe chock full of semi-autos in .22, .32, 9mm, and .45, and 9 times out of 10 when I reach for a gun it's for my Centennial Airweight.

 

[Cosmodragoon]

"The point is that Nyclad is very special for what it is: a standard-pressure .38 special for use in snub-nosed revolvers."

And, once again, Nyclad was available in BOTH standard pressure and +P loads in the same bullet weights, both from Smith & Wesson AND Federal.

The original S&W advertisements in the mid to late 1970s offered 158-gr. in both standard and +P.

125-gr. standard and +P loadings came later.

I suppose I should have clarified. I was talking about the standard-pressure 125-grain load, which is the last one Federal made. That's where I think it shines, where expanding at lower velocity is a pretty rare feat.

 

[MR.G]

Still have a few boxes of the 158gr Nyclad +P, and use it for my carry guns. Shoots well in my J frames and equals my 158 gr reloads at the range. Have never shot any of the 125gr standard pressure.

 

[jmstr]

Did the closure of the last lead refinery in the u.s. affect the cost?

Just thinking.

 

[Cosmodragoon]

Did the closure of the last lead refinery in the u.s. affect the cost?

Just thinking.

It's a good thought, and a reasonable question to ask. Here are lead prices over time. Notice that the plant only closed recently.

Lead Prices over Time

This has gained special attention because the closure happened under one of the most anti-gun administrations in US History. There is no question on their position but we need to be accurate in our assessments. The fact is that the EPA has been after lead smelters for a long time, under both Democratic and Republican administrations. I think the reasons have been diverse and depend on the particular person or group pushing it. Environmentalism is an obvious driver but so too is everything from "public health" to less obvious stuff like anti-capitalism or globalism. I'm sure there are some who see lead regulation as instrumental to gun control but they are just part of the picture.

 

[jmstr]

Thanks Cosmodragon,

I was just thinking...

The evidence seems to show that the Missouri smelter closure wasn't a big hit on lead prices here, as it happened last year [I believe].

Thanks for the data.

 

[royal barnes]

The standard 125 grain Nyclad was still available a year ago through LE suppliers. I bought 8 fifty round boxes for $22.99 per box. I use them in my Colt Agent(1969) when I carry it. Both my daughters also carry snubs and the round is good for them. At that time LE suppliers could order them from Federal in pallet quantities.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Federal announced that it was scaling back, with an eye towards eliminating, Nyclad several years ago, possibly even before the major uptick in prices.

Simple matter is, it was no longer cost effective to keep loading it. It was no longer selling all that well and it required specialized machiney to coat the bullets.

 

[highpower3006]

I can't personally speak about the .38 special Nyclad, but I shot a 300 pound pig with a 158gr .357 Nyclad using a 6" M28 Smith. It stopped that piggy like it was hit with a dump truck.

It went into the left shoulder breaking the bone and lodged in the right shoulder. It left a pretty large wound channel in it's wake.

 

[mete]

The only thing I shot with my 9mm Nyclad is a rabbit . Expanded sise twice the bullet dia ! But functioning was iffy. Another fellow had same make pistol and the Nyclad worked fine in his , QC problem ?

 

[Cosmodragoon]

The only thing I shot with my 9mm Nyclad is a rabbit . Expanded sise twice the bullet dia ! But functioning was iffy. Another fellow had same make pistol and the Nyclad worked fine in his , QC problem ?

I never actually saw any of the 9mm stuff. The idea seems a little strange to me. I'm no expert but I feel like super-soft lead bullets with a nylon coating could be asking for trouble in semis, which can sometimes be finicky with ammo in the first place. Interestingly, I've read a few comments that say Nyclads are suboptimal in speed loaders. One guy said that he kept Nyclads in the cylinder and Critical Defense in his speed loader because it was a smoother reload.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I never had any problems with using speedloaders with Nyclad and speedloaders.

Supposedly S&W made a VERY limited number of Nyclad rounds in .45, but never brought them to market, nor did Federal....

Over the years I've seen one box of 9mm Nyclad, and was at a gunshow for an obscene amount of money.

 

[Lavan]

I only have about 8 rounds left.

2 of em are in my carry snub.

Don't sell Silvertips short, though.
They have done some good stuff for me.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/29...n-38-special-110-grain-silvertip-hollow-point

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I had a box of the 9mm which I shot most of. I think I have a few left - I would have to look in the ammo cave. I also used the 38s but they are gone.

 

[TBM900]

the tiny niche market for this round would not justify the extra production costs, or they would still make it

Its anything but a 'tiny niche market' as there are a plethora of specialty loads specifically for 38 snubs, including loads that duplicate the performance and handling of the decades proven street performance of the NyClad.

A nearly identical load is Winchesters Train & Defend 38 Special. It is also a soft lead, easy expanding bullet that has essentially the same velocity, expansion, penetration, retention, and felt recoil. The NyClad was my carry load for decades until it was discontinued & dried up some years ago, I switched to my wadcutter back-up load until my searching turned up the Train & Defend line.

If anyone has been seeking NyClad, look to the Winchester: W38SPLD
The bonus is that there is a less expensive matched training load: W38SPLT

The fact is that a 125gr bullet at ~850 f/sec is....

A proven performer

you can easily carry something with more oomph, less recoil, and more capacity, and carries easier (IME) than a .38 snub

Name a firearm that is more powerful, that recoils less, is smaller & lighter, and just as reliable, that fires a load that performs as well as the NyClad.

 

[buckhorn_cortez]

Its anything but a 'tiny niche market' as there are a plethora of specialty loads specifically for 38 snubs...

You've just defined a niche market. Plethora means a large or excessive amount. So, what you're saying is that there are a whole lot of specialty loads for .38 snubs.

Loads for .38 snubs are a small part of a large ammunition market. If you have a whole lot of specialty loads, then every specialty load, by definition, is a niche within that small market.

If Federal was selling 10's of millions of .38 caliber NyClad bullets, then they would not have discontinued them.

Obviously, it was not cost effective to continue manufacturing the product. Or, to put it differently, they could devote to the same manufacturing assets to in-demand, higher volume, better selling ammunition.

 

[A pause for the COZ]

I say make your own. You could get the same if not better results powder coating.

Cast some soft lead bullets of your choice. Shake and bake powder coat.
They should expand as expected. And they will not lead.