Too old maybe?

[James K]

OK, guys, I would not expect the younger folks to see the point at all. I am sure you will love their next models, the Al Qaeda, the Terrorist, and the Taliban.

Actually, Hitler and Mussolini didn't get the term from mathematics; Hitler declared that from that point on, the world would revolve around the Berlin-Rome Axis. (He wasn't big on physics, either.)

Jim

 

[jglsprings]

The majority of the time names for products are picked by the marketing department.

Yes...

Did I not mention "executives long since removed from their true customers"?

 

[Againstthewind]

names

I never noticed either the Savage name with the first nations picture on it or the Axis name, but now that they have been pointed out I can't help but think of it. I went to the mathematical definition first when I heard the Axis name. Maybe they were going for a rifle to hunt Axis members. I must be a little desensitized or something. I am not offended when I hear pinche gringo when I walk away anymore .... well maybe not that desensitized. It was not a good move on the part of the marketing department, unless it was a clever move to get extra publicity. With the logo still the same, I don't think they are that clever.

^^^I am totally that guy who has to shout something that makes no sense at the bar. ^^^

 

[Catfishman]

The Allies crushed the Axis. The Axis is gone. Doesn't bother me.

 

[Adrian]

Againstthewind, just for your information, Savage Arms was named for its founder, Arthur Savage. In 1919, Chief Lame Deer offered his tribe's endorsement in exchange for discounted rifles. Later the Chief gifted the use of his image to the company, and that's where the logo comes from.

Some people get offended by it, but either they don't know the company history, or they're out looking for offense.

 

[Mike Irwin]

'OK, guys, I would not expect the younger folks to see the point at all. I am sure you will love their next models, the Al Qaeda, the Terrorist, and the Taliban.'

Actually, I do see your point, Jim, and I recognize that there are some people who do feel that way. I know people who won't own a Mitsubishi anything because of the connotations, and you know how touchy I am about people slinging around the term Nazi because of some of the people I've been fortunate enough to know over the years.

Your three examples, however, are NOT salient (just as mine weren't, but I don't think you, or any one else, picked up on it)...

The three examples you gave are proper nouns chosen by those organizations as proper names for themselves. They were not in the English language or our consciousness before that.

Axis, however, is a common English language noun with multiple meanings, and existed in the English language for about 400 years before Adolf Hitler came along.

And, unlike Taliban or Al Queda, the word Hitler used to describe the political affliation between Germany and Italy would not have been the English word Axis, but would have been Achse, or possibly Achsenmächte (depending on context), which are the German words for axis and Axis Powers.

The word axis was used in English speaking nations such as the United States to describe the politicial/military affiliation because otherwise about 75% or more of all Americans wouldn't have know what the hell Hitler was talking about because they didn't speak German.

Hitler's many speeches, virtually all of them translated to English at one point or another, are are likely full of common nouns that may have taken on unsavory connections due to cross translation and affiliation. Do you intend to seek them out and excise them from your language base, as well? If not, WHY not?

Had Savage named their new rifle the Asche, or the Achsenmächte, then I think you'd have a valid concern.

But to eschew a common English word that Hitler NEVER used because it's the translation of the German word that he did use?

I'm sorry, but that's just damned silly.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I had a whole response typed out here and my stupid app reset when I checked Safari.

In the meantime, Mike pretty much said what I was saying.

To add another point, here's how I see what you're doing with an ambiguous word...

Your name is Jim. Are you really going to use that name after what Jim Jones did?

 

[Mike Irwin]

To bring that point even more tenancy, how about James Holmes, or James Earl Ray?

Both of those men used firearms to commit their crimes, which leads me to believe that anyone named Jim or James just may be a murderous criminal...

Yes, Jim, you had been born and named long before either of those events happened, but the association!

 

[Jimro]

I don't think that the "Axis" name has hurt sales any. You see Remington and Marling trying to bust into that "economic yet accurate big game rifle" with the X7 series and Rem783.

That we are talking about the Axis in this thread and not the X7 or 783 offerings is making some marketing department happy...

Jimro

 

[mete]

Mike , like Mitsubishi those wonderful folks who brought us Pearl Harbor !
Much of the younger generation probably never heard of WWII as they don't seem to teach anything in schools today. In Japan the gov't textbooks didn't include anything in a six year period until a history teacher brought suite against the gov't and won !

 

[Mike Irwin]

Yeah, I'm more than familiar with the state of education as it pertains to the teaching of history, both in the United States and in Japan.

 

[coldbeer]

It doesn't bother me whatsoever, but if it bothers you that much just buy a Ruger American rifle instead. You'll end up paying more for a less accurate rifle, but you won't have to use a word that gives you nightmares as much.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I have Krupp toaster and we did have VW or two in our car histories.

If the modern company has moved on, then so have I. Ford has a less than noble history.

I do understand the Axis connotations. I would be hesitant to use some firm that called itself the Axis group. Just an emotional shudder.

 

[Gunplummer]

I strongly suspect that if this Axis rifle was as cheap as the Commi rifles you all bought there would be no problem.

 

[Tom Matiska]

It is more remarkable that the name "Savage" gets a pass in this day and age. If Arthur Savage were alive today, he couldn't put his name on an NFL team.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

It is more remarkable that the name "Savage" gets a pass in this day and age. If Arthur Savage were alive today, he couldn't put his name on an NFL team.

They don't exactly get a pass, someone is always offended by everything.

 

[Art Eatman]

I keep looking for that Constitutional Right to never be offended by anything.

Ain't found it, yet.

I just send folks off to the Chaplain so he can punch their TS Card.

 

[James K]

I am not sure I am "offended", more like a little put off. But to argue that one should not be bothered by the use of words is not logical. Words do have meanings and words do have power. As to common words deliberately being given new meanings, I cite the word "gay" which once meant "happy" or "cheerful". When the word is used today, does anyone think of those meanings?

Those who name organizations and legislation often concoct names whose abbreviation (or acronym) can serve to state the purpose of the group or the bill, and be its own advocate, Gov. Cuomo's SAFE law being a case in point. And corporations spend millions of dollars in making sure a new trade name has positive connotations; GM famously goofed with its Chevy Nova - "no va" means "it doesn't go" in Spanish.

But I can see the point of not being "put off" by the association of a trade name with an evil alliance of almost 80 years ago. But I can still wish Savage had chosen some other name.

Jim

 

[BerdanSS]

We just live in a very sensitive world these days. I have personally been accosted at the range SEVERAL times, when shooting a certain piece of History I own. It has several VERY well intact markings of an eagle perched atop numbers......the Eagle just happens to be, and has been since LONG before the psychotic rantings of a short, swarthy madman...One of my nations great symbol.

For possessing it, I have been given rotten looks, rude verbal interaction, and one individual 10 years my junior so bold as to say; The police should take it from me and melt it down, and afterwords I should be jailed.


In my experience, most manufactured items are named entirely on the whim of people in glass walled offices....that for the life of them wouldn't know their own product if they were socked upside the head with it.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

But to argue that one should not be bothered by the use of words is not logical. Words do have meanings and words do have power. As to common words deliberately being given new meanings, I cite the word "gay" which once meant "happy" or "cheerful". When the word is used today, does anyone think of those meanings?

I don't think anyone is arguing that, though. Of course words have meanings and of course we can be bothered by their usage.

Some words have totally (or nearly) UNambiguous meanings. Al Qaeda, for instance, effectively means one and only one thing in the English world. Using it to name a product might very well be offensive.

"Axis" no more has a singular meaning than "Jim" applies to (or should remind us of) only one person. I truly believe that associating it FIRST and FOREMOST with the Axis Powers of WWII is entirely illogical. The word has nearly a dozen meanings and there is no indicator or inference from Savage or by implication that relates it to WWII.