Thoughts on "survival rifles"

[Boomer58cal]

There are plenty of guys over on the SKS survivor boards shooting cast bullets in there SKS. With the right alloy, bullet diameter, velocity and or gas checks they seem to experience very little leading. Some of those guys have tens of thousands of Cast Lead rounds through their SKS's.

I agree. I always liked the term "emergency gun" better than survival rifle.

I totally agree with you there. I like the term "emergency gun" for a SHTF rifle and "camping gun" or "backpacking gun" for a surviving in the woods gun.

Boomer

 

[L_Killkenny]

Gotta love when a SHTF thread gets disguised as a survival thread.

You don't need a gun for any survival(not SHTF) plan if you have any sort if brain in your head. Just like you don't need to know how to start fire by rubbing sticks together if you're smart enough to pack matches and/or lighters.

All fun a games for folk to stew about but BS nevertheless. If lost and in survival mode than food and defence and buckets of ammo are the least of your problems.

 

[ThomasT]

LKillkenny I agree with you at least to a large degree. Matches get wet and some don't smoke. I don't so I never have a lighter on me. But I do know how to make a fire with sticks and flint & steel. If lost in the woods knowing how to make a fire with a bow drill or a hand spun stick and having a decent knife on me would be just about as good and maybe even better than a firearm. And I just don't waste brain cells thinking about zombies or hordes of human attackers.

To me an energency gun is what that trucker named Reginald Denny needed when he found himself trapped in the middle of the L.A. riots and was dragged from his truck and hit in the head with a brick. That guy is a totally screwed up mess now. And IIRC he only had three attackers. That was plenty.

A simple ruger single six in 22lr may have made all the difference in the outcome. Thats an emergency gun. I carry a S&W model 65 and a Glenfield 75C 22lr in my truck for just such an occurence.

 

[Boomer58cal]

If lost and in survival mode than food and defence and buckets of ammo are the least of your problems.

When surviving in the wilderness your only priorities other than finding your way out are food/water, shelter and defense.

Am I missing something?

And I just don't waste brain cells thinking about zombies or hordes of human attackers.

Somebody doesn't remember the Watts or LA riots.

During the Watts Riots my uncles neighborhood barricaded their streets and stood watch armed to the teeth. The would be anarchists went block by block lighting houses on fire. When the rioters came to my uncles block and saw them armed to the teeth, they moved on and burned the next block.

Both predators and cowards pray on the weak.
Boomer

 

[L_Killkenny]

When surviving in the wilderness your only priorities other than finding your way out are food/water, shelter and defense.

Am I missing something?

Boomer

Yep. "Long term wilderness survival" for 99.999% is largely a big ol myth perpetuated by tv and the internet. If you're going remote concentrate on being prepared (I.e. pack food) and getting found. You don't want to ever be in a fix that requires you to kill your own food, you're kidding yourself. Just be thankful it takes weeks to starve. And any talk about large quantities of ammo is SHTF/zombie talk.

 

[Boomer58cal]

Yep. "Long term wilderness survival" for 99.999% is largely a big ol myth perpetuated by tv and the internet. If you're going remote concentrate on being prepared (I.e. pack food) and getting found. You don't want to ever be in a fix that requires you to killyour own food, you're kidding yourself. Just be thankful it takes weeks to starve. And any talk about large quantities of ammo is SHTF/zombie talk.

Have you ever hunted/ backpacked in the Cascades or Rockies?

Canada or Alaska maybe?

What if the nearest road or structure is several days walk away? Let alone civilization.

A few miles off the highway is not the wilderness in my opinion. Depending upon how far I'm going from civilization I pack accordingly. One 50 rd box of .22 could feed you for months in the wilderness if used wisely. Then again people have been surviving in the woods for thousands of years with nothing at all.

I'd take a good .22 and 50 rds of ammo over a couple MRE's any day. Q'd Squirrel is actually pretty good. I do carry an MRE and some granola bars in my pack when I'm hunting. It's also good to carry something with sugar in it. Sugar helps to prevent hypothermia in cold weather and hypoxia at high altitude.

Boomer

 

[ThomasT]

Somebody doesn't remember the Watts or LA riots.

I specificly mentioned the LA riots in my post. Did you not read what I wrote???

Depending upon how far I'm going from civilization I pack accordingly. One 50 rd box of .22 could feed you for months in the wilderness if used wisely. Then again people have been surviving in the woods for thousands of years with nothing at all.

Thats not a "survival" situation in my opinion. YOU chose to go there voluntarily. Thats not a situation you were thrust into. And thats is totally different. If you go into the woods for an extended stay you better have the supplies you need for the time you are planning to be gone.

When surviving in the wilderness your only priorities other than finding your way out are food/water, shelter and defense.

Am I missing something?

Yes. You just talked about hiking in. Can you not find your way back out again?

This just goes to show what a diverse concept each of us have for a "survival" situation. No offense intended to anyone. I like these type of threads and hope we can keep talking without it getting closed.

 

[Buzzcook]

A gun is a low priority luxury for the lost int the wilderness scenario.

You would be lots better off with the tools for making shelter, starting fires, purifying water, and navigation.

A rifle as a tool for feeding yourself may not be as useful as string for making snares, traps, and fishing.

L_Killkenny is right, most folk lost in the wilderness are at most a couple of hours walk away from help. A space blanket would be much more important to most people than a rifle.

 

[Boomer58cal]

I specificly mentioned the LA riots in my post. Did you not read what I wrote???

I ment the Watts riots when they were burning homes. Those were definitely hordes of people. LA must have been on my brain from reading your post.

YOU chose to go there voluntarily.

Mother nature doesn't care whether you're sitting in your lazy boy or hiking the slopes of Mount Rainier.

I live a full days walk from town( I know because I've walked in ) and I've been snowed in and couldn't get to town for almost three weeks. When we finally got to town the shelves in the grocery stores were empty. If the trucks can't get over the past the shelves stay empty. Sometimes you just have to feed yourself.

I guess I just have a different point of view.

Boomer

 

[ThomasT]

I guess I just have a different point of view.

And thats good. If everyone thought alike you would never hear ideas different from your own. And I like what your take on a survival rifle is. My most likely dangerous situation is something like the LA riots. I don't ride in small planes much anymore so going down in the deep woods is not likely to happen. And I live in town so walking to a store is only a mile or so hike.

Sorry, I don't know much about the Watts riots. I was born in 1957 and that was never on my radar.

Just curious, what part of the world are you in? I live in Burleson Tx. The former home of Kelly Clarkson. My son was a grade behind her in high school and saw her just about every day in the halls.

 

[armoredman]

Real quick reply to this and back on topic, if you don't mind...

There are plenty of guys over on the SKS survivor boards shooting cast bullets in there SKS. With the right alloy, bullet diameter, velocity and or gas checks they seem to experience very little leading.

Emphasis added

That's what I said - wheel weight alloy in a gas operated firearm is no bueno, but the right alloy is - I have hundreds of them through my vz-58 with a good hard alloy with no leading.

Back on topic - "Survival" requirements are going to be very location/event specific. If I had absolutely no knowledge of where I was going to be or what I was going to face, the one rifle I would choose would still be my CZ 527CSR. If I was in Watts standing shoulder to shoulder, or manning a neighborhood barricade during Katrina, or eventrying to Escape From LA riots, (sorry, couldn't help it), I'd want my SA vz-58 and chest pouch of magazines.

 

[Pond James Pond]

I read these threads and wonder what I would do. I only have 4 long arms to choose from: two bolt actions and two shotguns. Truthfully I don't know what I would go with. I'd love to have the 800yd potential of the .308 but realistically it is too heavy both as a gun (CZ550 Varmint heavy barrel) and ammo in any quantity. The other bolt action is a CZ 452 in .22LR

I guess I would take the 452 with the silencer attached.

Having said all that, there are other options. For ease of carry I also have a folding Beretta 16G "Model 412". 16 gauge is no wheezer and it is lighter than 12g.

Failing the above there is simply my Ruger MkIII.
I made a shoulder stock for it that I can screw on in a couple of minutes (have to shave some wood off as the cheek weld is way too high!!): stick a red-dot on it and it should be accurate to 50yds or so for small animals. That would be the easiest and least obvious one to carry...

 

[Husqvarna]

If you survive the impact of a plane crash in on top of the Andes you will need to do a lot of things different than if you survive a plane crash in North Korea.

yeah north koreans are small and all bone you'd have to eat many more koreans than chilean rugby players which are quite beefy

 

[HiBC]

I suppose it all depends on whatever scenarios our imagination conjures up.

Considering compromizes and tradeoffs,an accurate mid to major caliber handgun would be my choice.

You could take care of a 2 legged problem,a Mountain lion,black bear,threat,down a deer,etc.

Without exceptional skill,you can be dangerous at 100 yds,kill deer at 75 yds,and bust a rabbit at 20 yds.

Its not perfect for all scenarios,but it will handle most.

By definition,"survival" means I do not want to spend myself hauling a lot of hardware.

 

[Boomer58cal]

Just curious, what part of the world are you in? I live in Burleson Tx. The former home of Kelly Clarkson. My son was a grade behind her in high school and saw her just about every day in the halls.

You said kelly clarkson! That's funny right there.

I've got a quarter mile square in the mountains of Oregon. 30 miles from Florence on the coast and 25 miles from Eugene on the inland. Geologic isolation has its advantages and disadvantages, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I've ran to Oregon twice from the peoples Socialist Republic of California. Oregon Isn't much better these days but I'm through running.

I suppose it all depends on whatever scenarios our imagination conjures up.

You don't need a magination, just read a history book or watch the world news. The average American has grown soft and has been taught it could never happen here, this is "Merica".

"IT" hits the fan all the time, but it doesn't happen in our front yard everyday so people get complacent. Just because nothing happened yesterday doesn't mean something can't happen today.

Watching people panic and get hysterical over the empty shells at Safeway because of a snowstorm really opened my eyes. Since then I've done my best to keep at least a months food and water for my family and I'm sorry but you can't have too much ammo.

Boomer

 

[ThomasT]

You said kelly clarkson! That's funny right there.

Okay, I'll bite. Why is that funny? Nobody had heard of burleson tx until she won the first american idol.

Oregon. Man I wish I lived someplace like that. Maybe when I retire it will be an option. Some friends moved to seattle a couple of years ago. I have seen pics of the area. Wow what a pretty place to live. My personal desire has always been idaho.

"IT" hits the fan all the time, but it doesn't happen in our front yard everyday so people get complacent. Just because nothing happened yesterday doesn't mean something can't happen today.

Thats why I am never far from a gun and carry enough cash on me just in case something happens. And I have two guns in my truck plus fire making tools. I was about 90 miles from home when 911 happened. I finished my job and made a bee line for home. What a strange day that was. Just like the oklahoma bombing. You just never know how a day will end up.

 

[DPris]

Couple things re previous posts:

The current Henry AR-7 is probably the best of the various AR-7 makers over the years. I had a previous make 30 years ago that was a hunkajunk. Liked to try to go full auto, when it functioned at all.

Worked with a brand new one last week, current Henry camo version. At 50 yards it ran 2-4 inches for best groups with four different loads, from bulk HP to CCI solid, with zero malfunctions.

For its projected role, it's not a bad buy at all.

And, Mel Tappan's widow, Nancy, now lives in Oregon & runs a small vineyard, besides editing The New Pioneer Magazine.
Very nice lady.
Denis

 

[Shadi Khalil]

I think a 10/22 makes for a good one. My "all weather" model is being made into something of a survival rifle. With hiviz fiber optic sights, after market barrel band, bipod, 25 round mag and paracord sling, I think it would come in handy.

 

[TenRing]

For a wide range of "survival" situations, a Mini-14 with 20 round magazine seems like a good bet.

 

[nate_g_2003]

+1 for the previous AR-7s being inaccurate. I have a Charter Arms that my dad gave me (he got it from a co-worker whose husband had it).

It is not very accurate with any ammo, and seems to need a high velocity (non-target) ammo to reliably cycle.

For all it's faults, it is still a fun gun to bring out and amaze people who have never seen one before, when I take the pieces out of the stock and assemble them and start shooting.

As for surviving with it, I probably could, but it would make things a bit more challenging. I wouldn't mind trying out a newer, non-Charter AR-7 to compare it to.