Thoughts on a new semiauto shotgun

[Deerhunter]

I am looking into getting a 12 gauge semiauto shotgun. I have been looking at a couple different ones. I am a Remington guy but willing to hear what people have to say. I have heard that there have been a lot of issues with the Remington 11-87, jamming. My other choices that I am looking at are the Benelli Super Black Eagle or a Beretta. I will be using it mostly for ducks and geese. Looking for something that I can load up with 2 3/4 in size 8s for doves and then take it out and load 3.5in shells for the ducks and geese.

Thanks in advance for any advice / info you can provide.

 

[LanceOregon]

The Beretta 391 Extrema II is an outstanding waterfowl shotgun. It is what I use. It has a great camo finish on it that is ideal for waterfowl hunting.

it is a bit heavy for dove hunting, though. But it will function just fine with low base 2 3/4 inch ammo suitable for dove hunting. Even 1oz target loads have shot fine from it. The Extrema II with the plain black synthetic stock usuall sells new for about $1,000 Although I saw one dealer that currently has one for sale for only $800, which is a real steal:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=170027568

If you get one with the nice waterfowl camo finish, though, you are normally looking at $1200 or a little bit more. Although here is a dealer with a new one for sale for only $1,050, which is another fantastic deal:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171003157


If you would prefer a similar shotgun that is a bit lighter, then the new Browning Maxxus would offer the same type of performance and versatility, while weighing approximately 10z lighter. Amazingly, it is a 3.5 inch 12 gauge with a 28 inch barrel that only weighs 6 lbs 15 oz.

Prices for it are very similar, in the $999 to $1,200 range.

Either of these would be great guns to own. I can vouch for the Beretta 391 Extrema II, as I have had mine for 3 1/2 years, without any problems.

The Browning Maxus is rather new. But it does have the advantage of being noticeably lighter.

.

 

[NightSleeper]

I've never had an issue with my Remington 11-87. Of course I've only put about 25 rds through it. Bagged my first buck with it last November. Great gun!

I also have a Beretta 391 Extrema with a 3.5" chamber for water fowl or turkey. Bagged a big fat Jake with it just last month. Also a great gun.

 

[Deerhunter]

Thanks for the info so far. I will check out the Beretta when I get to the gun shop. Anyone have a Remington that they have put a lot of shells through? How is cleaning? Any issues with jamming? How about the Benelli?

Thanks again in advance for your time. I am not too worried about price. More worried about getting what I pay for.

 

[mathman]

I would go with the Benelli for ducks and geese. I personally don't see a use for 3.5 inch shells, so I would opt for the M2 field...but if you must shoot 3.5 inch shells, the SBE is the way to go. Be sure to not use light loads since they are sometimes the cause of cycling issues (especially in the SBE).

There is nothing wrong with the Beretta (great gun), but for ducks, geese and the inclement weather that sometimes comes with hunting them, the Benelli has fewer parts and is easier to strip and clean.

JMO...YMMV

 

[SouthCali]

another Benelli vote!

 

[BigJimP]

I'm not a big fan of 3 1/2" shells either (3" shells will handle anything I want to do in terms of waterfowl ) ....but if that's your criteria/then you should pick your gun accordingly. There isn't anything wrong with gas operated guns like Beretta, Browning or Remington -- or the inertia guns like the Benelli.

The 2 3/4" shells ought to cycle fine in the Benelli - as long as they are at least 1225 fps or so .../but below a 3 Dr EQ rating on a shell they may be a cycling issue ( its not about the length of the shell, or how much shot is in the shell / its about the velocity of the shell and you can tell that by the DR EQ rating of the shell ). If you go with the Benelli - and you're really going to be shooting some heavy loads - get a model with the "comfort tech" supression system in it / to reduce the recoil. If you don't go with the comfort tech system - the Benelli will have a lot more recoil ( maybe 30% or so ) than the gas guns.

The Benelli will probably cost you more than most of your other options - but I like the Benelli a lot. They shoot very cleanly / but shooters say the new generations of gas guns shoot pretty clean as well.

Picking a gun ought to be more about "fit" than anything ...and after that its about the features that you want in a gun. It needs to "Fit" so it hits where you look / with the right amount of drop at the comb and heel - so it doesn't beat you up ! You should really figure out the dimensions you need in a gun before you buy / and if it has an angled comb ...moving up or back on the comb even 1/4" will change the point of impact on a gun ...so you have to deal with that as well if you go with a traditional angled comb gun.

 

[Maromero]

I have heard that there have been a lot of issues with the Remington 11-87, jamming.

Oh boy!

Get the one that fits you better. Shoot them all if possible before buying. It's like piking a mid-size sedan b/n a Camry, Accord, Mazda 6, Malibu and Altima. You really can't go wrong with any of them. You play with them and eventually you will find out you like one better than the other but that there is nothing wrong with any of them. Same with semi shotguns. Some are more expensive, some are less. You might like the contours of one over another.

P.S. I have a 11-87 with 21 years of service. Learned to shoot with it, skeet, hunting, waterfowl, ext. Been to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Venezuela and Nicaragua. It's what you call a beater. I actually used it as a paddle once (out of necessity). The only things I have ever replaced on the shotgun is the O-rings (regularly). Period. Keep it clean and the thing is nearly indestructible.

 

[Technosavant]

Since you want to use 3.5" shells, the Rem 105 CTi II is out (I love mine).

Beretta has a new gun (A400) out that looks rather intriguing, and supposedly will cycle most anything from light target loads to the super magnums. May want to give that one a hard look.

 

[Deerhunter]

Thanks again for the info. Like I said in my origional post I am a Remington guy. I just heard (from a guy at the gun shop) that they have lots of jamming problems. Now I am smart enough to know that he didn't have one in the store but he did have a Benelli to show me (more money). That is why I turned here to get everyones thoughts. Now I know that is a take it or leave it thing but at least I figure someone owns and shoots the 11-87 a lot and could tell me how they like it. I really liked the feel of the Benelli though. I wasn't real happy with the way the Brownings felt though.

As for the 3.5 inch shells, that isn't too big a deal. I shoot 3 inch out of my 870 now and hasn't been a problem, just wanted the option. I hunted with a couple guys that had Remingtons in 10 gauge. Recoil was fine for me, the gun was real heavy though. Not something I want to be hiking to the duck blind with.

 

[BigJimP]

A 10ga is another kind of nightmare .....I convinced myself I had to have one ...once ..../ bought a Browning BPS in 10ga ... and shot it on one trip to Arkansas for Geese .....and sold it to the guide ...when I left.:barf:

I've shot a lot of 12ga shells over the years .....and have never had the urge to go down that path with a 10ga again ....(the trials of youth ...)

Jamming in a lot of semi-autos is often a shell problem / especially if someone is using reloads and they have a cheap press that doesn't resize the brass. The Rem 1100's or the 11-87 are not new technology ....but they've both killed a lot of birds and a lot of clay targets ....

 

[zippy13]

I'm not aware of any issues prevalent with the Remington shotguns beyond the debate about rough extraction with the R-870 Exp. Yes, there are reports of 2-3/4" loads less than 3 dr eq not functioning in 3-1/2" guns, but that's something the mfg mentions up front in their ammo recommendations. IMHO, not being able to do something you don't claim to be able to do isn't a problem. Wanting a 3-1/2" capacity duck/goose gun that will also shoot 2-3/4 dr eq 1 oz dove loads is asking a lot from any auto loader.

I suspect you'll want to use light 2-3/4" shells more often that the 3-1/2" duck/goose getters. Also, humping a big goose gun all day after upland game can get old in a hurry. Do you have any experience shooting a 3-1/2" 12-ga gun? If not, then perhaps you should run through a box of heavy-shot 2-1/4 oz loads (about $4.40 per shell in a box of 5). Most folks find the standard 3" 12-ga field gun sufficient. It you must have a 3-1/2" gun, you might consider having it dedicated to ducks and geese and get a second gun for upland game. If you're going to have a dedicated duck/goose gun, you might wanna look into a 10-ga. I'm with BigJimP on this, only a small percentage of shooters actually use 3-1/2" (12 or 10-ga) guns -- most applications of the large capacity hulls are for low mass shot.

 

[aroundchicago]

My 11-87 has never jammed....ever. But then it's about 10 years old. Maybe the new ones aren't as good.

 

[JNewell]

Partial list of gas guns I've owned/own: 11-87, 1100, SX2, SLP, 390, 391, AL48 (technically, long recoil), 1201 (short recoil). If I had to pick one for reliability, simplicity, etc., I'd hunt up a used Beretta AL390.

 

[jbaham]

Browning is a good choice they make great guns. I would reommend the browning gold 10 ga they are lighter than the remington sp-10 I have a remington sp-10 I love the gun as it tames the recoil, I have heard good things about benelli as well. I also having a browning bps 10 ga it has some decent recoil but no worse than any 12 ga 3.5 inch gun I have ever fired.


Good luck

get the gun that fits you the best

 

[Waterengineer]

BigJim:

There is more to that story in Ark....right?! You know it, I know it everyone wants to know it.

Tell it! It is a funny story.

 

[BigJimP]

Ok, the short version on my 10ga BPS ......experiment .

I used to go to Arkansas every year to hunt ducks ...and one year we had an option for Geese. My preferred duck gun is a Browning 12ga O/U ...so I took that gun as well (this was 20 yrs ago ??) So, I purachased a new Browning BPS 10ga just to take for Geese...figuring I needed the extra shell ...and I was 6'5" and a svelte 250 lbs in those days ( not old and fat, like I am now )... I probably paid about $ 600 for the gun / and an extra 32" barrel as well as the stock 28" barrel it came with / so call it a $ 900 investment ( with a hard case ). I put one box of shells thru it - at my local Trap range ..and figured I was ready !!

We were in our pits on our backs at sunrise / covered up ... as the guide yelled, Get Em -- I raised up, spotted a good Goose ...tracked him, leaned back a little since I was on the ground - following thru - and pulled the trigger ...and my head promptly bounced off the frozen Tundra ....and as I bounced back up ...I carefully looked around to see if anyone noticed ( and they all did ) .... probably because I swore loudly as my head hit the ground ( and my buddies were all laughing so hard, at least 2 of them had to get up and take a leak .....before they could go back to hunting ...). Now, not being a quitter ...I shot that 10ga for the rest of my trip ...and before I left, I sold it to the guide for about $ 400 as I recall - gun, both barrels, and the hard case. But I flew home with my limit of Ducks and Geese ...( and my 12ga O/U ).

And the morale of the story...a 12ga will do everything I need to do with a shotgun !

Kind of like when I gave my son 3 cases of Remington Nitro's ( factory shells ) 1 1/8 oz, 1300 fps ...a few months ago for a day of Trap, 5 Stand and Skeet .... and all I said was here son, you and your buddies shoot these for me, will ya, and don't drop any empties, I need the hulls .... ( and then I load them with 1 oz, at 1225 fps ) because I'm nobody's fool. He's not a bad kid ( he's 31 ) ...but its his mother's fault ( the ex wife )...that he's a little slow .... I almost feel bad ... so next weekend, I'll only give him one more case of them to shoot up...

 

[FEG]

Get the one that fits you better. Shoot them all if possible before buying. It's like piking a mid-size sedan b/n a Camry, Accord, Mazda 6, Malibu and Altima. You really can't go wrong with any of them. You play with them and eventually you will find out you like one better than the other but that there is nothing wrong with any of them. Same with semi shotguns. Some are more expensive, some are less. You might like the contours of one over another.

So long as you are considering major name brands, I would agree with the above. I have always found that I can hit better with one over the others in its class/price point. That's why my 20 ga. auto is a Franchi, but my 12 ga. auto is a Benelli.

Pumps are cheap enough that I always buy Remington or Ithaca and rework the stocks.

 

[Deerhunter]

Right now I have a Remington 870 Express Mag in 12 gauge. It handles the 3in shells and I have never had any issues with it. The problem is that we use shotguns for deer in PA. Now since the seasons overlap I keep taking my scope on and off. It sucks. I want to get a shotgun for just ducks and geese. Again I am not set on being able to shoot 3.5 inch shells. I am pretty sure that I can handle anything I need with 3 inch.

Anyone have any issues with break down of the Benelli/Remington for cleaning? How often do you do a real deep clean?

Thanks for all the advice/input. Keep it coming.

I am headed up to PA in a few weeks and will be stopping by Cabelas to paly with a few different ones.

 

[LanceOregon]

I own 4 Remington Model 700 rifles myself, in calibers .223, .22-250, .243, and .270

But I would NEVER, EVER own a Remington shotgun. Remington has not stayed competitive with companies like Beretta, Benelli, and Browning, all of whom continue to innovate and come out with new improved shotguns on an on-going basis.

In sharp contrast, the 11-87 has never had any sort of significant overhaul since it was introduced well over 2 decades ago, other than to create the 3.5 inch SuperMag model. And if you do want to be able to shoot 3.5 inch shells, well, the 11-87 3.5 SuperMag is by far the heaviest gun of them all, weighing in at 8 1/4 lbs.

If I was in your boat, I would really take a close look at the Browning Maxus, which came on the market last year. The info that Browning has about its new technology on their website is most compelling to read.

There is a lot of cool stuff from the new Inflex recoil pad with a couple of spacers so you can adjust length of pull, to the new simplified Power Drive gas system that it uses, to the unique new Speed Lock Forearm, and the great DuraTouch coating that Browning puts on the gun.

You should go to http://www.browning.com/products/interactive/firearms/maxus/#onscreen and take a peek at it, if you have not already done so.