The squibb that won't come out

H

HighValleyRanch

New member
Loaded up some LeHigh Defense 130 grain. Their site stated 5.5 to start with HP38. Measured up 5 grains on a digital scale to start. I know that there was powder because I only loaded 2 and weighed each one.
Took it out to test, and got a squibb on the first round.
Stuck half way down the barrel.
So got a hardwood dowel and banged it back to about 1/2 inch from the cylinder end of the barrel, and then it stuck, no further. This was holding in my hands with a hammer on the wood dowels.
The LeHigh has that Phillips all copper bullet so it was hard on the dowels.

So after many failures to get it to budge after that, I decided to take the time and make a solid jig to hold the frame tight so it would not flex or break. It is a 360 PD with the Scandium frame. The photo shows the jib I made. Made sure that it was supported on all sides with a glue center block to protect the cylinder frame.

Screwed it into my 4" thick work bench, and started to hammer as hard as I could, and it didn't budge at all. The brass down started to bend and peen on the hammered side.
I'm afraid that if I beat on it any harder, i.e. with a sledge that the frame will blow up even with all that wood support.

What to do?
Send it back to Smith and Wesson?
Put the gun in the fridge to get it colder?
Heat up the barrel?
Solid copper bullet in lined barrel.

There are no gunsmiths within 200 miles of where I live.

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R

Recycled bullet

New member
I wonder if you could heat up the bullet with the tip of a heavy duty soldering gun and then try again with the impacts and see if it comes out.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the frustration of a barrel obstruction with the machine copper bullet that sounds terrible.
 
J

JohnKSa

Administrator
If you can't get the tap into the bore, you could drill all the way through, tap a piece of brass rod, put a bolt through the hole in the bullet and thread it into the brass rod section on the other end. Then pull it out.

I would make a slide hammer on the muzzle end of the bolt to do the pulling.
Soak it in penetrating oil for a few days?
Click to expand...
Yes--do the penetrating oil thing before you start the actual pulling process.
 
H

HighValleyRanch

New member
Thanks for all the suggestions. Yes, I did soak it for a few days with penetration oil before trying to knock it out.
I can't imagine trying to drill a centered hole through that Philips screw driver type bullet head. I would have to concoct some sort of guide with a small drill to get a center hole.
Maybe a brass tubing with a drill bit through it?

Since it's only 1/2 inch from the cylinder side, it seems a long ways to go to pull it out the muzzle side instead? Is there a reason to push it that way?
 
H

HighValleyRanch

New member
Well, I tried using a fresh brass rod and wacking on it again. I think what might be happening is that I am peening the Phillip head flat and that it making it wedge in tighter so it won't budge.
But then I took a LeHigh bullet and clamped it into a vise and drill it out from the hollow base end, and it is pretty soft for drilling, so maybe drilling might be the key.

I'm thinking a brass tube to protect the rifling and then a drill bit that fits right into the tube and drill out the bullet hollow.
I don't think tapping the copper bullet will work as it is too soft for the threading to hold.

I might be able to get a headed machine screw into the drilled out bullet, but the cylinder opening is just barely long enough to get a screw that is long enough to reach the muzzle end. So not sure I that is going to work.

If I drill out the bullet too much it might be hard to remove the copper sleeve that is left?
So drilling the center out and using a brass rod to punch it out might be the way to go.
 
J

JohnKSa

Administrator
Since it's only 1/2 inch from the cylinder side, it seems a long ways to go to pull it out the muzzle side instead? Is there a reason to push it that way?
Click to expand...
I have two thoughts about that, neither one of them dogmatic.

The main one is that the back of the bullet is probably a better surface for applying force since it's more or less flat.

Second, it seems to me that the gun is made to tolerate stress pushing forward on the barrel since the firing process would apply force in that direction. Basically that's what happens every time the gun is fired. Maybe the gun is just as strong in the other direction, but I don't know.
 
S

Skippy

New member
JohnKSa said:
....the back of the bullet is probably a better surface for applying force since it's more or less flat.
Click to expand...

I bet all the pounding on the nose of the bullet turned it into a wadcutter.

_______________
*I'd give right arm to be ambidextrous*
 
H

HighValleyRanch

New member
Not quite, but compared to the original sharp Phillip type head of the LeHigh defense bullet, it is fairly flattened out, so it should be easier to drill now.
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
I like the idea of pulling the bullet out the muzzle end.

Thinking out loud here: I'm not sure what caliber you have, since the Lehigh Defense web site doesn't show any 130-grain projectiles, but I'm assuming it's .38 Special or .357 Magnum, so this will be based on that assumption. Adjust as needed for other calibers.

The bore for .38 Special and .357 Magnum is .346", which is roughly 11/32". If you drill a hole that's about half that diameter through the bullet -- say 3/16", (.1875"), you can then drop a 3/16" threaded rod down the barrel (use a soda straw to protect the bore) and through the bullet. On the chamber side, install a flat washer and a nut -- ground down enough to be slightly smaller than the bore.

Then drop two or three washers over the rod on the muzzle end, with a light coating of oil or grease so they can slide against each other. Thread another nut down on the muzzle end. Use a pair of vise-grips to prevent the rod from turning, and use a wrench to tighten down the nut at the muzzle and. That should draw the bullet out.
 
H

HighValleyRanch

New member
Thanks, yes correction, the bullet is 120 grain .38 special (.357)
I like that idea of the 3/16 rod using it as the pulling device. Will give it a try tomorrow.

The trick will be to make some sort of guide for the drill bit. Thinking a brass or plastic tube that fits into the bore but will guide the drill bit.
 
7

74A95

New member
Is there any chance the wood from the dowel broke off and wedged around the side of the bullet point and this caused it to be stuck? Take a close look down the bore.

Tip: never use a wooden dowel. They can break off in the barrel and make the problem worse. Always use a brass rod for pounding out squibs.
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
All copper bullet??

First, a good penetrating oil (Kroil/AeroKroil, Liquid Wrench, etc,) even WD-40 is better than nothing.

Next step, (if needed) put it in the freezer overnight....then with everything cold and contracted as much as possible see if you can drive it out.

Alternate possibilities are as mentioned drilling a hole through it (try driving it out after you've made the hole, the hole along might be enough so that the bullet material has "somewhere to go" that isn't the barrel steel, when you impact it, OR resort to the puller method as mentioned.

OR you could get one of the "copper remover" chemicals and let it soak for a while, POSSIBLY dissolving enough of the bullet to release its tight grip on the bore. No idea how well this might work, or how many times it would take before it did (if it does) but it is another possibility.

S&W can fix your gun. Most gunsmiths can fix your gun. The fellow who builds ARs and calls himself a gunsmith might not be able to...:rolleyes:

This is not covered warranty work. ALL costs are going to come out of your pocket.

Good Luck, try the freezer method FIRST, might be all you need.
 
A

Aguila Blanca

Staff
Freezing might work. The coefficient of thermal expansion for copper alloys ranges from about 9.8 to 11.8, with most hovering around 10. The coefficient of thermal expansion for carbon steel allow is 7.8. This should mean that the bullet will contract more than the barrel if you freeze it.

It shouldn't hurt to try that before trying my homemade bullet puller idea. If you do move on to the bullet puller, I would agree that you should use some sort of sleeve around the drill bit, both the protect the bore and to help center the hole and keep it aligned as well as possible.
 
H

HighValleyRanch

New member
On freezing, should I leave it in overnight and take it right out and trying knocking it out while it is frozen cold? Or let it warm up before whacking?

Thanks to all the suggestions, I am listening.
Got all the materials to do the drilling, but will try freezing first.
I was able to find an assortment of hobby brass tubes that slide into each other, from the bore size down to the 3/16 for the 10/32 all thread in 4 size increments. That way I can first drill with the small bit and work out.
 
H

HiBC

New member
No charge for another opinion!
Never use a wood dowel in a barrel to beat on. Never!

The brass rod is fine. While your fixture is nice, its not a hard,dead,immobile
Anvil . There is a sort of force that will drive the slug out and there is the sort of force that will batter and peen the bullet like a rivet head.That makes it stucker.

A little whacking hammer will peen without much driving force A bigger hammer will have more "Driving through" force. At least 24 oz,maybe 32.

Your cylinder window is an opportunity to pass maybe a 1 1/2 in by 1 1/2 in bar of steel through. clamp such a piece up solid in your vice. Put any support under it you can.
Dress the top surface flat and smooth. You are going to rest the breech end of the barrel on the bar of steel . You can protect the barrel with a sheet of brass shim or even paper.
Have a helper hold the gun . Breech dollied on steel, smite the brass rod with conviction! Things will move as you enter the forcing cone. Then make adjustments so you can drive through.

With the right press,you could use the same idea to press it out.

Beware copper tends to suck a drill onto the work all the sudden if you must drill
 
L

lunger

New member
No expert here ,just floating this out there. Not intended as advise.

Wouldn't freezing contract the steel barrel? Wouldn't heat cause it to expand? Thinking of how you heat a nut stuck on bolt ?

Again no experience with this .
 
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