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Texas School Shooting
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
When I went through grammar school and high school, there was some bullying. I was subjected to it a time or three. In those days, though, fighting wasn't allowed but if a fight happened, the victim wasn't punished as severely as the attacker. We were allowed to defend ourselves.44 AMP said:Like we got serious with the war on drugs, the war on crime, the war on poverty, and war on (insert any and every other social injustice here)????We, as a nation, need to start getting serious about stopping bullying.
There you go. The strong prey on the weak. it is a factor in natural selection, and you aren't going to change that. The point of educating our children is to learn the difference between what one can do, and what one should do. Some, just don't learn that, because for them, bullying others, works...until it doesn't, IF that ever happens.Bullies have been around since the beginning of time
Toady? Not only are young people not taught to defend themselves, they are actually taught that it's NOT okay to defend themselves. That creates an environment where abuse piles up and escalates. Sooner or later, something as to pop.
Case in point.
Colorado Redneck
New member
Do video games that players "practice" killing "opponents" cause some people to somehow detach from reality? There have been numerous studies linking brain chemicals to video gaming.
Universally there are renegades that kill members of their own species. When a person goes off course, bad things can result. It is convenient and easy to blame inanimate objects, even though that is intellectually lazy and dishonest. Removing guns will, as evidenced by the U.K., only force kooks to use weapons that may be less likely to inflict injury and death to large numbers of people. As stated here by others, intent killers can knives, bombs, etc. There ain't no easy answer.
Universally there are renegades that kill members of their own species. When a person goes off course, bad things can result. It is convenient and easy to blame inanimate objects, even though that is intellectually lazy and dishonest. Removing guns will, as evidenced by the U.K., only force kooks to use weapons that may be less likely to inflict injury and death to large numbers of people. As stated here by others, intent killers can knives, bombs, etc. There ain't no easy answer.
Just watched the opening segment of NCIS Los Angeles on TV. Eleven people killed and one wounded in the first three minutes, mostly with machine guns. Gee, I wonder why today's children accept shooting people as a normal and exciting part of life.
Perhaps the reason the Hollywood crowd are so fast to blame guns for school violence is to divert attention from the real root cause ....themselves. Imagine if there was a law banning the use of guns in Hollywood films, TV shows, and video games. The loss of profits would drive them screaming to the offices of their lobbyists.
(Just switched to a show about the Civil War. Muskets this time, but still people dropping like flies. Think I'll switch to a super hero movie next...hoo boy).
Perhaps the reason the Hollywood crowd are so fast to blame guns for school violence is to divert attention from the real root cause ....themselves. Imagine if there was a law banning the use of guns in Hollywood films, TV shows, and video games. The loss of profits would drive them screaming to the offices of their lobbyists.
(Just switched to a show about the Civil War. Muskets this time, but still people dropping like flies. Think I'll switch to a super hero movie next...hoo boy).
IMO,there is not "THE" answer. Its an aggregate of many factors,and a network of interacting unintended consequences.
There will be no "instant pudding" fix. Including targeting the NRA or the AR-15.
I don't notice girls being the shooters. Not likely the answer is there.
I don't like racial profiling,but the majority of the killers are White Males.
I would suggest two things. For a context of what might be absent,read Robert Ruark's "The Old Man and The Boy". That young man's shotgun carried with it much more than a firearm.It carried a food for the soul from an Old Man to a Young Man.It was about responsibility,trust,respect,values,such as regard for a good dog a covey of quail,regard for the written and unwritten rules,and the value of being accepted and included by Older Men.
Patriarch is a derogatory term these days.
We have courses of university study ,and in some cases required classes designed to place a burden of guilt and shame on a person for being born a White Male.
If you can succeed in making a person ashamed of WHO HE IS,he will not have the capacity for shame to limit WHAT HE DOES.
Many teachers cannot identify with or cope with the energy that just IS a young,dynamic Boy.It does not fit the teacher's model.
Try Robert Bly's "The Little Book of The Human Shadow"
And some teachers seek to make their own lives easier by medicating perfectly normal,high energy little boys more interested in grasshoppers than spelling.
The list goes on.
There is an obvious topic around dehumanization and respect for Life that I'm sure is taboo here,but it is worth quiet introspection.Lets not discuss it lest we be zapped.
Many of the steps taken in the name of "Progress" have dire unintended consequences.I think it is legitimate to question the wisdom of the social engineering contemporary with a change in violent behavior. What is politically correct may in fact be deadly.
Search "Rogue game preserve elephants" See what an absence of the Patriarch can cause.
The lighthouses we had to warn of reefs and wrecks are no longer politically correct.The plug has been pulled.
Do you know anyone who refuses to vote for a person who attends Church with his family?
I don't care your faith,or lack. But why hate those who have faith?
As I said,many factors
There will be no "instant pudding" fix. Including targeting the NRA or the AR-15.
I don't notice girls being the shooters. Not likely the answer is there.
I don't like racial profiling,but the majority of the killers are White Males.
I would suggest two things. For a context of what might be absent,read Robert Ruark's "The Old Man and The Boy". That young man's shotgun carried with it much more than a firearm.It carried a food for the soul from an Old Man to a Young Man.It was about responsibility,trust,respect,values,such as regard for a good dog a covey of quail,regard for the written and unwritten rules,and the value of being accepted and included by Older Men.
Patriarch is a derogatory term these days.
We have courses of university study ,and in some cases required classes designed to place a burden of guilt and shame on a person for being born a White Male.
If you can succeed in making a person ashamed of WHO HE IS,he will not have the capacity for shame to limit WHAT HE DOES.
Many teachers cannot identify with or cope with the energy that just IS a young,dynamic Boy.It does not fit the teacher's model.
Try Robert Bly's "The Little Book of The Human Shadow"
And some teachers seek to make their own lives easier by medicating perfectly normal,high energy little boys more interested in grasshoppers than spelling.
The list goes on.
There is an obvious topic around dehumanization and respect for Life that I'm sure is taboo here,but it is worth quiet introspection.Lets not discuss it lest we be zapped.
Many of the steps taken in the name of "Progress" have dire unintended consequences.I think it is legitimate to question the wisdom of the social engineering contemporary with a change in violent behavior. What is politically correct may in fact be deadly.
Search "Rogue game preserve elephants" See what an absence of the Patriarch can cause.
The lighthouses we had to warn of reefs and wrecks are no longer politically correct.The plug has been pulled.
Do you know anyone who refuses to vote for a person who attends Church with his family?
I don't care your faith,or lack. But why hate those who have faith?
As I said,many factors
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Before we get too far off topic discussing the ills of modern society and how we got here, I think the idea of fame/media recognition and the idea of being desensitized from repeated exposure have merits, though they need to be discussed in this thread as they apply to the Texas school shooting which is the topic.
One of the students is reported as telling interviewers that the killer "didn't shoot the people he liked, so his story would be told".
The police have a confession, he admits he did it, and that he intended to do it, but has, so far, been silent on his reason why he did it.
It is not impossible that it was intentionally done with the idea of becoming famous (and intending it to be posthumous)
Until/unless the killer himself states his motive, we can only speculate.
One of the students is reported as telling interviewers that the killer "didn't shoot the people he liked, so his story would be told".
The police have a confession, he admits he did it, and that he intended to do it, but has, so far, been silent on his reason why he did it.
It is not impossible that it was intentionally done with the idea of becoming famous (and intending it to be posthumous)
Until/unless the killer himself states his motive, we can only speculate.
I have to assume because there was not an "ASSUALT" weapon used the topic is going to turn to how did he get ahold of his fathers firearms ? I'm not sure how many of these attacks involve the shooter using firearms owned by others . Sandy Hook and this one both had the shooter using there parents firearms .
What does that mean ? I have no idea because the situations were quite different . In Sandy Hook the shooter took his mothers firearms and used them to kill her before targeting the school . With out knowing all the facts in this case it seems reasonable to assume the father did not give him the firearms to shoot up the school . So how did he get them ?
My point to this is , are we headed to a national law requiring all gun owners to keep there firearms in a or secured by a certified locking device . Be it a safe , cabinet or trigger lock ? If you fail to do so will the law allow prosecution of said owner of the firearms used ? Is that even a reasonable step ? To ask gun owners to secure there firearms and if they choose not to . They understand they can go to jail for that choice ?
What does that mean ? I have no idea because the situations were quite different . In Sandy Hook the shooter took his mothers firearms and used them to kill her before targeting the school . With out knowing all the facts in this case it seems reasonable to assume the father did not give him the firearms to shoot up the school . So how did he get them ?
My point to this is , are we headed to a national law requiring all gun owners to keep there firearms in a or secured by a certified locking device . Be it a safe , cabinet or trigger lock ? If you fail to do so will the law allow prosecution of said owner of the firearms used ? Is that even a reasonable step ? To ask gun owners to secure there firearms and if they choose not to . They understand they can go to jail for that choice ?
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
Several other school shootings, with lower body counts, were also carried out with firearms that were legally purchased and possessed by a parent.Metal God said:I have to assume because there was not an "ASSUALT" weapon used the topic is going to turn to how did he get ahold of his fathers firearms ? I'm not sure how many of these attacks involve the shooter using firearms owned by others . Sandy Hook and this one both had the shooter using there parents firearms.
Some states already have that requirement. My state does -- but only if there are children under the age of 16 in the home. I think the law's purpose was to prevent children from accidentally shooting themselves or another child while playing with a gun they find in the house. It has been in effect since long before school shootings became a topic of national conversation.Metal God said:My point to this is , are we headed to a national law requiring all gun owners to keep there firearms in a or secured by a certified locking device . Be it a safe , cabinet or trigger lock ? If you fail to do so will the law allow prosecution of said owner of the firearms used ? Is that even a reasonable step ? To ask gun owners to secure there firearms and if they choose not to . They understand they can go to jail for that choice ?
This kid was 17, so my state's law would not have applied even if Texas had such a law. It wouldn't be a quantum leap for a legislature to raise that age to 18, and I wouldn't be surprised if some states enact such laws. I'm not sure how I feel about it.
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Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Did I say this already? If you as a parent see your kid going to school in a trench coat with weird crap on it (every day in the TX heat) - and you don't investigate or let the kid - you are not the world's best parent.
As a parent if you allow your kids access to guns, you'd better be quite sure you understand their lives. That doesn't mean you just gave them the OLD MAN's gun safety, RKBA lecture.
Too many parents have found out their kids have very secret and disturbing social lives or personal problems after the fact.
As a parent if you allow your kids access to guns, you'd better be quite sure you understand their lives. That doesn't mean you just gave them the OLD MAN's gun safety, RKBA lecture.
Too many parents have found out their kids have very secret and disturbing social lives or personal problems after the fact.
I'm pretty confident that no parent fully knows everything about their teenage children. You may THINK you know everything, but I am quite sure that no kid shares everything with their parent, even one that thinks they are the kid's best pal. One of my sons was definitely doing some bad things when he was younger. We thought we knew the extent of it. He has since grown up and become a responsible young man and father, hardworking and absolutely devoted to his two boys. Only now did he tell us that when he was about 15 he was selling weed and bought a gun on the street which he had kept "hidden" in his bedroom. Fortunately no harm resulted from this and now his life is quite different. But for those out there who think that THEIR son or daughter would never touch drugs, would never be a bully, would never have a grudge that could lead to violence, etc, etc, they had better think again. Add guns to the mix and the potential for true tragedy is present.
Search "Rogue game preserve elephants" See what an absence of the Patriarch can cause.
Very good post. i watched a show where an African game dep't put a large adult male elephant in a reserve inhabited by out of control juveniles.
As a former Big Brother i've have seen the same with US teenagers.
Did I say this already? If you as a parent see your kid going to school in a trench coat with weird crap on it (every day in the TX heat) - and you don't investigate or let the kid - you are not the world's best parent.
The only folks who wear trench coats year around are flashers, child molesters and someone looking to hide a gun.
tony pasley
New member
1960 I took my new rifle to school and at recess the Principal my teacher and classmates went out back and shot it. Kids compared pocket knives at recess or lunch time. Adults were Mister or Miss, Aunt or uncle, you disrespect an adult you got a whipping. act up in school you got paddled in front of the class. Morning comes get up clean your room do your chores eat breakfast go to school. After school got a snack did your chores eat supper play a little or do home work then bed. We learned things like " right and wrong"
" Honor, Duty, Loyalty" "Work first play latter" none of which is instilled in the youth since the mid 1960s and people wonder why does this happen
" Honor, Duty, Loyalty" "Work first play latter" none of which is instilled in the youth since the mid 1960s and people wonder why does this happen
Double Naught Spy
New member
Yeah, everything was better in the old days, like polio, smallpox, and cholera. Different times and different places.
I can't think of a single generation who didn't think the one coming after it was doomed to hell because they were not as good.
I can't think of a single generation who didn't think the one coming after it was doomed to hell because they were not as good.
From the USA Today. Apparently they are relieved that no AR15s were used... since all other guns are less lethal.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/18/gun-used-texas-shooting-explosives/623202002/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/18/gun-used-texas-shooting-explosives/623202002/
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott in Texas says the gunman, Dimitrios Pagourtzis, who was a student at Santa Fe High School, used two firearms: a shotgun and .38 caliber revolver, both of which he got from his father. Ten were left dead, mostly students.
The guns may have slowed down the gunman’s deadly rampage because they have a slower firing rate than firearms used in other recent mass shootings, such as the AR-15. Abbott said it was unclear whether Pagourtzis' father knew that the weapons were missing.
High-powered rifles such as the AR-15 can be fired more than twice as fast as most handguns. The standard magazine for an AR-15 holds 30 rounds, allowing a shooter to continue firing uninterrupted for longer, making the weapon more lethal than other firearms, though clearly the use of any gun can be deadly, especially a shotgun at close range.
This isn’t encouraging, but I agree with Gladwell’s premise: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-do-mass-shootings-happen-best-explanation/
It is a perverse trend that builds momentum with each new tragedy.
Public lynching used to be relatively common and popular in the United States. I reject the idea that school shootings are the result of a moral decline. Every American generation has engaged in some form of senseless and horrible violence.
It is a perverse trend that builds momentum with each new tragedy.
Public lynching used to be relatively common and popular in the United States. I reject the idea that school shootings are the result of a moral decline. Every American generation has engaged in some form of senseless and horrible violence.
There’s always been murderers walking among us. That’s the entire reason most people here even own a gun, there’s murderers in our midsts.
Some
Want to do it in the shadows, some want the murders to be public and shocking. I agree that more of these events will happen, the frequency will increase and nothing will change that.
Some
Want to do it in the shadows, some want the murders to be public and shocking. I agree that more of these events will happen, the frequency will increase and nothing will change that.
I do not believe these killers can be engineered as a conspiracy. That would be nuts.
Overall, I agree with your response taken in the context of the comment you responded to. I do not believe media is trying to idolize these kids intentionally, with the hopes of spurning more shooters, with the hopes of eventually enacting gun control. I do not agree with your comment in all contexts, however. We don't do conspiracy theories here, so I won't elaborate other than the Las Vegas shooting is VERY suspicious to me in the context of "engineered intent shootings."
I reject that we shouldn't discuss the "ills of society" in relation to this topic here. I believe this forum, being dedicated to the admiration of sporting and PEACEFUL use of firearms, should vehemently reject any GUN VIOLENCE (yes I said gun violence). It goes against our purpose, and what we enjoy. Shooting and working on firearms is a passion of mine, and I enjoy having the freedom to do that. The more murders there are that use firearms, the more likely that this freedom will eventually be restricted. Despite that, what is really more important? Should I be so selfish as to worry only about my freedom, or to sincerely desire for these tragic events to stop? If we could ban all firearms tomorrow, and I had a magical way to know that something like this would never happen again (or we wouldn't have a dictator rise and commit genocide because the citizenry is not armed) I would be the first to turn mine in! The simple fact remains... it won't work and we all know it won't. Even anti-gunners know it won't. Enacting gun bans now is like shutting the barn door after the livestock have already run out. It won't matter.
I don't just believe, I know the posters who point out that most school shooters are males, white, have some form of mental illness (either mild or extreme, diagnosed or not) and usually didn't have great moral compasses or disciplinarians in the home growing up... well you guys are on to something. Like it or not, I will tarry to say that this is where earnest discussion on the matter should lay. I'm sorry if some folks don't like the fact that there were, in fact, a "good old days" when compared to the modern rat race where kids can barely form a sentence without reverting to text speak... but it is what it is. Kids social and personal communication skills are declining fast. Even peer reviewed scientific research almost universally accepts this. In addition, there is an "at large" zero respect for elders, and the drive to become self-sufficient adults is waning fast. There are a lot of layers to this, and I don't believe society at large will be comfortable peeling them all off. There is much more to the story than guns, and anyone with any ability to reason understands this. The problem is, many do not want to blame declining social standards because they do not like being held accountable for their failure to live to any standards. Period.
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I have read a few of Malcolm Gladwell's books. His research and neutrality to the issues before the data provides the answers is well documented and I highly respect him.
Thanks to Mainah for finding his work relative to the shooting we witness today.
The article is short and makes a lot of sense. It is worth 3 minutes to read the article he found. If only mainstream media would post this instead of jumping on the guns, the NRA and gun owners used as the problem.
Listed again for those who missed Mainah's post
https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...t-explanation/
Thanks to Mainah for finding his work relative to the shooting we witness today.
The article is short and makes a lot of sense. It is worth 3 minutes to read the article he found. If only mainstream media would post this instead of jumping on the guns, the NRA and gun owners used as the problem.
Listed again for those who missed Mainah's post
https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...t-explanation/
Thanks to Mainah for finding his work relative to the shooting we witness today.
Times 2.
That article makes a lot of sense.
From the USA Today. Apparently they are relieved that no AR15s were used... since all other guns are less lethal.
Yet the very last paragraph from that article gives lie to their premise.
Other shootings, including the deadly attack at Virginia Tech included less lethal weapons. Student Seung-Hui Cho used two pistols to kill 32 people in 2007.
So... A less lethal handgun was used to murder 32 and wound 17 people (Virginia Tech) as opposed to a more lethal rifle that was used to murder 17 and wound 17 (Parkland)?
The USA Today article is not the only one... Several of the major sources were timidly backing away from the "AR-15" scenario, they all first reported on.
Regardless, the only good that I see is that the calls for banning the AR-15 platform has fallen on its face.
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