Texas School Shooting

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Metal god

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because we had no service to call 911 to let anyone know that there was a shooter.”

That would be funny if it weren't so truly sad . I'm sure they meant well in the panic of the moment not realizing everyone in the school was hearing the shots being fired and the 911 switch board was likely lit up at that moment . Although not the same . I live by an intersection that has car accidents often . I actually stopped calling 911 many years ago when I hear a crash because I was always told . Thank you sir we've received several calls and already have emergency services dispatched . Turns out I was not the only one that heard the crash just like that teacher was not the only one in the school hearing the active shooter .

I hope I'm never in a situation where my split decision actions can result in people living or dying especially if I'm fearing for my own life at the same time .
 
They were so well trained that, instead of locking down in the classrooms, one of the teachers pulled the fire alarm, sending students out into the corridors to become better targets.

Interestingly, maybe not. The fire alarm did get a lot of people out of the school and to safety before they even knew there was a shooting happening.

Fire drill and gunshots
Angelica Martinez, 14, told CNN that an alarm sounded, as well as gunfire. She and her schoolmates at one point were evacuated "like it's a fire drill."
"We were all standing (outside), but not even five minutes later, we started hearing gunshots," she said. "And then everybody starts running, but, like, the teachers are telling us to stay put, but we're all just running away."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/19/us/texas-school-shooting/index.html

Many students already outside when they hear shots. See vid clip here...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44173954

I am not saying this was necessarily the right decision in this case or any case, only that it did actually help in this case for at least some of the student population. If accurate, it got a lot of students out minutes ahead of the danger.

And the reason it may have helped in this case was because the shooter appeared to be targeting particular individuals and not people he liked. https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/18/us/texas-school-shooting/index.html
 
There are too many conflicting reports at this point. We don't know what actually happened or what the actual sequence was. As a man I used to work for liked to say, "Everything you see in the newspapers is true ... unless you have first-hand knowledge of the facts."

Who pulled the alarm, and when? Was there an orderly fire evacuation, or was there a mad scramble? We seem to have people saying both.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/05/18/...ourtzis-southeast-texas-santa-fe-high-school/

“As soon as the alarms went off, everybody just started running outside,” said student Dakota Shrader. “And next thing you know, everybody looked and you hear ‘boom, boom, boom,’ and I just ran as fast as I could to the nearest floor so I could hide, and I called my mom.”

This doesn't sound like an orderly fire evacuation to me. It'll be days, if not weeks, before the facts get somewhat sorted out.
 

SIGSHR

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As is so often the case, we must wait for competent people to investigate. Here in Nj we just had an accident, a school bus colliding with a dump truck. Initial stories said the dump truck company-named Mendez, had a so-so safety record, repeated citations, now it seems the school bus driver was making an illegal U-turn.
 

BarryLee

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It seems the debate about school safety needs to be separate from the debate about guns. I know many people will disagree when the bad guy/guys used guns, but considering what type of gun they used no level of gun control would have prevented this. Hardening the target is the answer with things like metal detectors, limited access, locked classrooms, etc. Sadly I fear many are allowing their personal hatred of guns and gun owners to cloud their judgment as it relates to what might actually help.
 

FITASC

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Sadly I fear many are allowing their personal hatred of guns and gun owners to cloud their judgment as it relates to what might actually help.

Change "many" to Soros and Bloomberg, and it's spot on......
 

BarryLee

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Change "many" to Soros and Bloomberg, and it's spot on......

While I tend to take a more Libertarian approach to things I have friends who may lean to the political left. Many of them dislike guns and gun owners for what might be considered political reasons. When I discuss the facts they often will agree with me, but more and more see gun control as sort of a litmus test for the more politically progressive. So, this irrational dislike for guns is not just among a few political or cultural elites, but is growing throughout the county and we really need ways to counteract these flawed opinions.
 

44 AMP

Staff
Hardening the target is the answer with things like metal detectors, limited access, locked classrooms, etc

No, I'm sorry, but its not the answer, either. Ok, if you have to do something, then "hardening" the school is better (for me, for you, and for the nation) than more gun control.

BUT

Its not the answer, and its not going to stop the problem of mass murder in schools. I won't go so far as to call it the elephant in the room, but its there, and its being virtually ignored.

The killers ARE SCHOOL KIDS!!!!

They are students who are going to the school (or former students who recently went to the school). They know what the defenses are, where they are, when they are, and can plan to get around them. Here's a point to consider, "active shooter training" doesn't just train the teachers and students what to do, it ALSO trains the active shooter to be, if he's one of the students at the school...

No matter what the defenses are, if there is a way through them, the people who know what way are the people who see, are around, and pass through those defenses every day.

There's no free lunch, there's no easy solution. If you teach people what to do, and not do in a mass shooting, you are also teaching potential mass killers what the plan is, and they can "adapt and overcome" and use your very response as part of their plan.

There is no way to stop a death seeking nihilist, jihadist, kamikaze (or what ever term fits best) BEFORE they do anything. The best we can hope for is to physically stop them during the attack. Those who plan on their own deaths,(and have the personal courage to carry that out) are NOT stopped by fear of any law, or any punishment. NOR are they stopped by gun control, or any physical defenses. At most, such things just make their task a little more complex, while placing burdens on people who have done nothing wrong.
 

Ricklin

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Why?

We reap what we sow.

As a society we are now reaping. We sowed a generation of kids that did not know how to loose.
Every child gets an award! There can be no looser's, only winners.

When these children become young adults they lack essential coping skills. Some then act out and spiral downward.

We do not have a gun problem. How can an inanimate object be a problem?

We do have a mental health crisis.
 
The killers ARE SCHOOL KIDS!!!!

Yep. School kids who plan mass murder in order to make themselves celebrities.

And that's the problem. This isn't an issue of hardware, but of software. Guns aren't more "readily available" than they were when I was in high school. There haven't been any technical advances to make guns more lethal. The problem is deeper, and it's one I fear we don't have the courage to address.

As a culture, we celebrate violence. We worship celebrity. We are raising narcissistic kids with meager problem-solving skills and a very skewed sense of priorities. We have to ask why we're raising monsters.

And that's something we aren't willing to do. Instead, let's listen to the guy who bangs the lectern and promises us this will never happen again if we just ban a class of guns. Then it happens again. But we have short memories and we crave easy "solutions," so we ban more stuff. Rinse and repeat.

I'm not the least bit surprised the shooter set explosives. That was the original plan with Columbine, and the media turned those kids into folk heroes. Every school shooter we've had since then has studied those kids like musicians study Bach.
 

745SW

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In the distant past when I went to school there were fights, teasing and bullies. Today it appears to be much worse with some schools made like a prison with a catwalk in the auditorium.

Noticed buckshot was used, pricey compared to birdshot. I've bought birdshot by the case but buckshot usually by the five pack.
 

Rangerrich99

New member
I have never seen a classroom that didn't have a phone on the wall - never.
Perhaps you meant, "these days." I don't recall seeing any phones in any classrooms as a child, all the way through high school. Okay, one phone, in the high school's science lab.
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
... the media turned those kids into folk heroes. Every school shooter we've had since then has studied those kids like musicians study Bach.
This is an important point. Whatever else motivates a kid to go on a murder spree at school, there's also, in the background, the understanding that their actions will make them a celebrity, at least at some level and for some timeframe.

This background motivation is going to remain an issue until things are handled differently so that these killers don't get a publicity bonus as a result of their reprehensible actions.
 

zxcvbob

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I think the media deliberately (but perhaps subconsciously) makes the killers into folk heroes because they want more incidents to occur. Because school shootings make for good headlines.

I'm giving them a *lot* of benefit of the doubt with the "perhaps subconsciously" qualifier; I actually don't think it's subconscious at all; I think it's deliberate and they are that evil. And then they blame us for it. But I could be wrong.
 

Glenn E. Meyer

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The effect of media egging on the next shooter has been said by experts for years. I went to presentations on this since Columbine. The same has been said for non violent suicides also. Every memorial is a vicarious reward for the next shooter or suicide.

Some schools have adopted a no memorial policy for the non violent suicides. I know folks want them and some fools want their moment of fame by being interviewed. It is a mistake.
 

HiBC

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There are those who want to take away the RTKBA. There are those who choose to advance political tension.
They are so committed to the ideology these shootings represent opportunity to exploit.
To many everyday folks,a focus on the "thing",the tool,is the easiest.Its the most superficial "instant pudding" remedy.
Many people do not think on the level of Liberty,or the ability to defend themselves.
Particularly to the non-gun folks,the (illusion ) transaction is "I don't even own a gun,and if we give up guns people stop getting killed"

Yet Chicago is,legally,essentially a "gun free zone"

Tom Servo makes a great point. I worked in the public schools 10 years.Every kid knows a pebble on the threshold at the door jam will prevent an outside door from locking.

Many classrooms have exit doors. That makes great sense for fire danger.

Teachers prop those doors open for spring fresh air. And mice,leaves,etc. And killers.

Picture a middle school girls track or softball team out on the field with the coach.The girl's locker room outside door will be propped open so the girls have rest room access. And so does a predator.(After school the public has access to campus)

Yet,on paper,all these schools have a secure limited access school. That goes out the window when its inconvenient.

At this point,by whatever means we agree to,rapid,embedded armed intervention seems the only effective means to minimize casualties.

In the future? I suggest as we develop cities or towns,remember the old "One school section per township" idea.

What if we would co-locate ,on one 160 acre campus,three school buildings,k-12, a police substation,office,etc,an ambulance station,and maybe a fire emergency station.
Along with a park.
These satellite locations may have benefits throughout the community. A train or traffic jam won't compromise response time. The Parks dept maintains the school yard,etc.

And armed response is never more than 200 yds away.
More important,video monitoring can be at a whole new level

Communication tech makes school collocated law enforcement offices feasible,for now.

We still need to address "Why do people kill each other"

And that means very uncomfortable challenges and conversations about dehumanization and respect for human life. The family. Fathers,. Spirituality.
Etc.
Maybe not here,but where?

We have been socially engineered into something that does not work.

By the "Experts" in charge. We need a change. What has been viewed as "Progress" is maybe "Not so much"

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Another topic:
I'm giving them a *lot* of benefit of the doubt with the "perhaps subconsciously" qualifier; I actually don't think it's subconscious at all; I think it's deliberate and they are that evil. And then they blame us for it. But I could be wrong.

I do not believe these killers can be engineered as a conspiracy. That would be nuts.

But we have seen,and are discovering,how agencies can be corrupted for politics.
I don't necessarily believe that every "dropped ball" (failure to prevent the preventable) is an accident. Slipping through the cracks and bureaucratic incompetence come with plausible deniability.

A school shooting that is prevented comes with no political fuel and no sensational media. "Drop the ball" and it may change an election with the passions.
Yes,I'm that cynical,and yes,I believe the lives of kids would be sacrificed for a political campaign.
IMO,Fast and Furious was about sacrificing lives a Mexican people to push anti-gun law. I have no faith in any limit of what evil politics will do.

Florida? Texas? Red?Blue? No accusations. Lets be vigilant.
 
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TomNJVA

New member
There is probably no single solution to school shootings, but perhaps a number of small steps in the right direction. One would be to have someone watch the students entering the school, either an armed resource officer or on a video connection. Kind of hard to hide a rifle, and any long trench coats like the one this shooter was wearing would trigger a search.
 
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