Limnophile
New member
Keep your fixation on 9mm intact and get a .380 Auto (aka, 9mm Browning, 9 mm Short, or 9x17mm).
Should I ever buy a non-9mm pistol?
- Thread starter Darker Loaf
- Start date
I would choose 357 for its versatility and ammo availability. I can find several brands of 357 Magnum ammo and tons of 38 Spl ammo in my area. Plus it can be used as a SD/HD or hunting whenever allowed.
Now, nothing wrong with 10mm. If you can afford both, buy both. A Glock 20 (or G29) is one of the best 10mm handguns.
Darker Loaf
New member
The poll is also interesting for the two skunks in the mix: .40 S&W out of a semi-auto and .45 ACP out of a revolver. The semi-auto .40 doesn't surprise me that people think it is non-essential, but that the .45 ACP revolver got no votes saddens me a bit.
Waspinator
New member
Add another for .357 revolver. If you do not own one, then I think, like was mentioned in more than a few posts, that every collection should include a .357 revolver.
My co-worker is a straight-up semi guy. He would be the first to tell you he thought a revolver is too antiquated. Well, he did buy one finally a month back, it was a S&W 66-3 he came across in a shop. You should see him with it... He looks like Gollum from Lord of The Rings with his "precious"! When called out on it, he sheepishly looks at me and tells me to shut it.. cause he knows that I know he loves that .357
My co-worker is a straight-up semi guy. He would be the first to tell you he thought a revolver is too antiquated. Well, he did buy one finally a month back, it was a S&W 66-3 he came across in a shop. You should see him with it... He looks like Gollum from Lord of The Rings with his "precious"! When called out on it, he sheepishly looks at me and tells me to shut it.. cause he knows that I know he loves that .357
Darker Loaf
New member
"I'd vote, except that, why would I vote, make a decision and do it."
Well, because it is interesting. That's also why there is no "buy all calibers" option on the poll because nobody owns ALL calibers and it is not informative. It is much more interesting to ask, "What single caliber would you recommend?"
That forces people to arbitrarily pick a single caliber and come up with the reasons to own it.
Well, because it is interesting. That's also why there is no "buy all calibers" option on the poll because nobody owns ALL calibers and it is not informative. It is much more interesting to ask, "What single caliber would you recommend?"
That forces people to arbitrarily pick a single caliber and come up with the reasons to own it.
Darker Loaf
New member
"Add another for .357 revolver. If you do not own one, then I think, like was mentioned in more than a few posts, that every collection should include a .357 revolver.
My co-worker is a straight-up semi guy. He would be the first to tell you he thought a revolver is too antiquated. Well, he did buy one finally a month back, it was a S&W 66-3 he came across in a shop. You should see him with it... He looks like Gollum from Lord of The Rings with his "precious"! When called out on it, he sheepishly looks at me and tells me to shut it.. cause he knows that I know he loves that .357 "
Now having owned a 9mm S&W 986, I really do have to say that I love shooting revolvers. I'm not as into single action shooting (though I might have the most time on a .357 Blackhawk), but I can safely say that I like the type. That's why I'd be really interested in buying an LCR in 9mm, if only to learn how to shoot a DAO snubbie well.
My co-worker is a straight-up semi guy. He would be the first to tell you he thought a revolver is too antiquated. Well, he did buy one finally a month back, it was a S&W 66-3 he came across in a shop. You should see him with it... He looks like Gollum from Lord of The Rings with his "precious"! When called out on it, he sheepishly looks at me and tells me to shut it.. cause he knows that I know he loves that .357 "
Now having owned a 9mm S&W 986, I really do have to say that I love shooting revolvers. I'm not as into single action shooting (though I might have the most time on a .357 Blackhawk), but I can safely say that I like the type. That's why I'd be really interested in buying an LCR in 9mm, if only to learn how to shoot a DAO snubbie well.
You should not buy a different caliber unless you decide you want one! Personally, I don't fully understand why most people would buy even one 9mm, but then that is just me. Not sure why you would ask US that questions without actually identifying something that you thought might be a problem or a need or a desire that you are worried cannot be met by your current caliber of choice.
"... what is the logic behind ... ??????"
In case you haven't noticed, most of the people who post here are just kinda crazy about guns... watch this video for some hints:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU
Logic... Hah!
In case you haven't noticed, most of the people who post here are just kinda crazy about guns... watch this video for some hints:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU
Logic... Hah!
745sw said:
Why is the headspacing on a rimless cartridge any less positive in a revolver cylinder than in an autoloader chamber? They're both machined with the same chamber reamers.
My 9mm SP101, 9mm Blackhawk, and 45 ACP 625 all headspace just as positively as any autoloader
I'm with you - the headspace thing is a total red herring. Rimmed cartridges are easier to headspace (independent of case length), but do not generally function well in semi-auto or bolt actions, that is why newer cartridges tend to be rimless. But any gun can be made to properly headspace on any type of cartridge. If it is made right, it will work. The reason some revolvers use half moon clips to fire rimless cartridges is NOT because the revolver cannot be made to properly headspace on the bare cartridge, it is because that lets you fire a rimless cartridge of the proper diameter in an UNALTERED cylinder that was designed to fire a different RIMMED cartridge of the same diameter.
Darker Loaf
New member
"You should not buy a different caliber unless you decide you want one! Personally, I don't fully understand why most people would buy even one 9mm, but then that is just me. Not sure why you would ask US that questions without actually identifying something that you thought might be a problem or a need or a desire that you are worried cannot be met by your current caliber of choice."
I am trying to identify what I might want or need. I am a very controlled, planning-oriented type individual. I am planning purchases that might be a year out (or more) from the date I am asking the question. I have a continuously running list of firearms that I am interested in owning developed, some more realistic than others. I have some non-9mm pistols on the list and I am really arguing with myself when I ask others to put forth their non-9mm favorites with arguments, because I am having a hard time justifying non-9mm pistol purchases.
Currently, I am still leaning to never buying a non-9mm pistol. It makes more sense to finish out my 9mm list, and move on to rifles and shotguns.
Though, that said, I'm still powerfully interested in 10mm and some sort of magnum revolver. I feel like I should price check my local stores to see what magnum rounds are available and reasonably priced before I declare non-9mm too inaccessible or expensive. Sadly, 10mm is pretty much not available except for online. I think only .357 and .44 mag are common in the area. .357 magnum is just not different enough from 9mm to me to be of interest. Revolvers are cool; I'll just own 9mm ones instead of .357.
I am trying to identify what I might want or need. I am a very controlled, planning-oriented type individual. I am planning purchases that might be a year out (or more) from the date I am asking the question. I have a continuously running list of firearms that I am interested in owning developed, some more realistic than others. I have some non-9mm pistols on the list and I am really arguing with myself when I ask others to put forth their non-9mm favorites with arguments, because I am having a hard time justifying non-9mm pistol purchases.
Currently, I am still leaning to never buying a non-9mm pistol. It makes more sense to finish out my 9mm list, and move on to rifles and shotguns.
Though, that said, I'm still powerfully interested in 10mm and some sort of magnum revolver. I feel like I should price check my local stores to see what magnum rounds are available and reasonably priced before I declare non-9mm too inaccessible or expensive. Sadly, 10mm is pretty much not available except for online. I think only .357 and .44 mag are common in the area. .357 magnum is just not different enough from 9mm to me to be of interest. Revolvers are cool; I'll just own 9mm ones instead of .357.
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Darker Loaf
New member
.357 is certainly different than 9mm. It is. No, disagreement there. It is rimmed. It can put out more ft/lbs of energy.
It is just not different enough. One of the biggest arguments that people have for buying a .357 is the type of gun that you "get to" shoot with it: a revolver. And in that arena, the .347 offers little advantage over 9mm. 9mm snub noses? Check. 9mm mid-sized DA revolvers. Check. 9mm full size race revolvers complete with porting/comp. Check. 9mm single action only. Check. Yes, you can buy more types of .357/.38 than any other type of revolver, so if you are a revolver nut, .357/.38 is a must. But, if you only want an example of each major type of revolver, 9mm does it.
.357 would be so much more appealing if it were the same bullet diameter as 9mm. Then, I'd build a 8-shot .357, cut it for moon clips for 9mm and be done with it. But .38 special is almost as expensive and as .45 ACP, which makes cheap .38 almost as expensive as cheap .357...
But on average, .357 doesn't really do that much more than 9mm. On average, .357 is pushing around 500 ft/lbs of energy. On average, 9mm is pushing 300+ ft/lbs of energy. The most common high-power 9mm is pushing around 400+ ft/lbs with a high end of 500 ft/lbs of energy. .357 stops at ~700 ft/lbs of energy. So in general, most .357 are pretty close to 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP in terms of ft/lbs, enough that they are all near the same range of energy.
When you are talking about these high-ends of .357, that's where the price really jumps up to a $1 a bullet or more. You can still get hot 9mm at less than $0.50 per at the 400 ft/lb range. Almost all .357 defensive rounds (not hunting) are in the 500 to 600 ft/lb range, and this is for premium bullets. So, mostly .357 is x2 as expensive for only 200 fl/lbs more energy on average.
Cheap .357 is about $0.50 a round and is around the ~540 ft/lb mark, which puts it into hot 9mm territory.
10mm "wins" this equation with the Underwood offerings. Cheap 10mm FMJ is up in the 700+ ft/lbs range at $0.60 per. Defensive 10mm falls more in the category of .357 range: 550 to 600 ft/lbs. But 10mm is by far less available than .357, with no in-store offerings locally for me at decent prices.
I feel like I should investigate .44 magnum more, since the .44 mag looks like it is widely available. .44 mag is significantly different than 9mm, hovering in low ft/lbs centerfire rifle territory. I've discounted the .44 mag for a couple of reasons: no cheap version of .44 is available to shoot. .44 specials are $0.60 a bullet (closer to $1 per) are not very available. But if .44 mags are $0.60 a bullet at good prices and more available, it might be worth it to have one .44 magnum handgun. One thing makes me hesitate beyond economics on the .44 mag though: the Alaskan State hunting manual recommends that .44 mag and lower are not suitable for brown bear hunting. It is a small quibble, because I have rifles that are suitable, but it sticks in my craw none-the-less.
.44 mag might work as a back-packing gun, too, as I've recently come to learn, in the form of a S&W 329 PD at a low, low 25.1 oz!?! That beats the Glock 20/40 by about 3 oz! My only hesitation is that it probably is really unfun to shoot. It if isn't... maybe I've found a good back-packing gun? My inclination in .44 mag, because I have this wacky porting-sickness, is the S&W Stealth hunter at 56 oz, which seems much more pleasant to shoot.
.44 mag brings me back to .45 ACP/.454/.460 revolver builds. That would give me cheap, available plinking ammo in the form of .45 ACP and on the high-end, I'd have cartridges capable of taking most game in North America.
As you can see, I've probably over-thought this issues, and that is why I am turning to my support group: TFL.
It is just not different enough. One of the biggest arguments that people have for buying a .357 is the type of gun that you "get to" shoot with it: a revolver. And in that arena, the .347 offers little advantage over 9mm. 9mm snub noses? Check. 9mm mid-sized DA revolvers. Check. 9mm full size race revolvers complete with porting/comp. Check. 9mm single action only. Check. Yes, you can buy more types of .357/.38 than any other type of revolver, so if you are a revolver nut, .357/.38 is a must. But, if you only want an example of each major type of revolver, 9mm does it.
.357 would be so much more appealing if it were the same bullet diameter as 9mm. Then, I'd build a 8-shot .357, cut it for moon clips for 9mm and be done with it. But .38 special is almost as expensive and as .45 ACP, which makes cheap .38 almost as expensive as cheap .357...
But on average, .357 doesn't really do that much more than 9mm. On average, .357 is pushing around 500 ft/lbs of energy. On average, 9mm is pushing 300+ ft/lbs of energy. The most common high-power 9mm is pushing around 400+ ft/lbs with a high end of 500 ft/lbs of energy. .357 stops at ~700 ft/lbs of energy. So in general, most .357 are pretty close to 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP in terms of ft/lbs, enough that they are all near the same range of energy.
When you are talking about these high-ends of .357, that's where the price really jumps up to a $1 a bullet or more. You can still get hot 9mm at less than $0.50 per at the 400 ft/lb range. Almost all .357 defensive rounds (not hunting) are in the 500 to 600 ft/lb range, and this is for premium bullets. So, mostly .357 is x2 as expensive for only 200 fl/lbs more energy on average.
Cheap .357 is about $0.50 a round and is around the ~540 ft/lb mark, which puts it into hot 9mm territory.
10mm "wins" this equation with the Underwood offerings. Cheap 10mm FMJ is up in the 700+ ft/lbs range at $0.60 per. Defensive 10mm falls more in the category of .357 range: 550 to 600 ft/lbs. But 10mm is by far less available than .357, with no in-store offerings locally for me at decent prices.
I feel like I should investigate .44 magnum more, since the .44 mag looks like it is widely available. .44 mag is significantly different than 9mm, hovering in low ft/lbs centerfire rifle territory. I've discounted the .44 mag for a couple of reasons: no cheap version of .44 is available to shoot. .44 specials are $0.60 a bullet (closer to $1 per) are not very available. But if .44 mags are $0.60 a bullet at good prices and more available, it might be worth it to have one .44 magnum handgun. One thing makes me hesitate beyond economics on the .44 mag though: the Alaskan State hunting manual recommends that .44 mag and lower are not suitable for brown bear hunting. It is a small quibble, because I have rifles that are suitable, but it sticks in my craw none-the-less.
.44 mag might work as a back-packing gun, too, as I've recently come to learn, in the form of a S&W 329 PD at a low, low 25.1 oz!?! That beats the Glock 20/40 by about 3 oz! My only hesitation is that it probably is really unfun to shoot. It if isn't... maybe I've found a good back-packing gun? My inclination in .44 mag, because I have this wacky porting-sickness, is the S&W Stealth hunter at 56 oz, which seems much more pleasant to shoot.
.44 mag brings me back to .45 ACP/.454/.460 revolver builds. That would give me cheap, available plinking ammo in the form of .45 ACP and on the high-end, I'd have cartridges capable of taking most game in North America.
As you can see, I've probably over-thought this issues, and that is why I am turning to my support group: TFL.
Pond James Pond
New member
OK, I was just reading this thread now to see what was being said, but that sentence above has me posting again!!
I'm not going to tell you you're right or wrong in what you choose and why. I will say that the only way I, here in Estonia, can feed my .44Mag is by hand loading.
That means I have no affordable commercial ammo available. I am entirely dependent on the component market. In other words, it is not practical, rational calibre to own here. Despite all that, it is my favourite gun and favourite calibre.
I truly believe that you'd enjoy the .44. It is different from what you have and it is extremely versatile. You can even shoot it from semis in the DE, for example.
It is a great calibre. I "HEART" the .44.
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Doc Holliday 1950
New member
Sig,
I'm like you in one respect. I only own 357 mags in different lengths except for
one other weapon. I also don't see any reason to expand this since I am not a collector. All of my 357's are working guns, not for show or for messing around.
Doc
I'm like you in one respect. I only own 357 mags in different lengths except for
one other weapon. I also don't see any reason to expand this since I am not a collector. All of my 357's are working guns, not for show or for messing around.
Doc
Darker Loaf
New member
Pond, that's cool. And really, I appreciate the information and perspective because I would be content with owning one-odd-ball pistol caliber with lower-availability. But in general, I've guided my gun purchasing by caliber according the the widest availability. But, it's true, I could commit to hand loading a single caliber that I couldn't buy, since I don't rely on it like I do my primary caliber for pistols, 9mm.
I've started another incoherent thread on caliber, specifically the .44 magnum, and I'd love to hear your perspective.
I've started another incoherent thread on caliber, specifically the .44 magnum, and I'd love to hear your perspective.
Pond James Pond
New member
You presumably live in the US. On those grounds, making judgements based on availability where I live in Estonia, would do you no good service. I think it fair to say that .44Mag is available to all intents and purposes.
Already responded, but if you want more information please ask. That said I am by no means experienced. My most pertinent input is that I bought the .44 almost on a whim: the .357 I'd planned on was gone and this was going at 45% off retail due to bankruptcy.
I bought ammo, shot it, hated it, posted, learnt to handle a big bore better, came to love it, got into hand loading as a result and have since loaded fire-breathers and mid range loads. I don't shoot it much, but I still love it to bits.