replies from ammo makers AND the origin of the panic

[Come and take it.]

I am pondering contacting either Federal, Remington or Winchester and asking questions on what is going on with the ammo shortage....

However, I thought I would ask here to see if others have already done this and what replies were given?

It is definitely graduated beyond a conspiracy theory that the DHS is at least partly responsible for the ammo shortage, but I would like to see how open the manufacturers are on admitting to this.

At last count there were about 13 lawmakers who are demanding an explanation by DHS for the huge contracts.

Remington, Federal or Winchester specifically. These are the big three brass producers.

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Updated

Didn't think to read their faqs

http://www.federalpremium.com/company/faq.aspx

 

[buck460XVR]

Here's a good clip from the Hornady website concerning the current ammo shortage. It probably mirrors what other ammo makers will tell you....

Product Availability
The current political climate has caused extremely high demand on all shooting industry products, including ours. Empty retail shelves, long backorders, and exaggerated price increases on online auction sites – all fueled by rumors and conjecture – have amplified concerns about the availability of ammunition and firearms-related items.
<snip>
We appreciate everyone’s understanding and patience. We don’t know when the situation will improve, so please bear with us a little longer. And remember, when it comes to Hornady Manufacturing, if you don’t hear it from us, please don’t believe it.

(Added by Vanya: It's well worth clicking through to the source to see the complete statement.)

 

[Pilot]

Buck, that is good information. Thanks.

 

[YARDDOG(1)]

"Buck, that is good information. Thanks."

+1^^^^^^^ Great ; )
Y/D

 

[buck460XVR]

I compare this ammo/firearm shortage to the shortage and high demand of Harley Motorcycles from 2001 to 2004. Between the glut of expendable cash by many Americans, the increased interest in motorcycling and the whole "biker" image thingy and Harley's celebrated 100th anniversary combined with the inability of HD to keep up with the sudden and new increased demands, saw folks being put on waiting lists, searching the countryside for and paying prices considerably higher than MSRP just to have one. Folks were buying ANY Harley they could find for sale, just like folks are buying firearms now. Since then demand for Harleys has dropped off, many wanna be bikers have moved on, and prices are cheap on used, barely ridden bikes. Harley has even laid off many workers and closed plants that were hastily put into production just a few short years ago. We Americans are a fickle bunch. Tell us we can't have something or spread the fear it might not be obtainable and those with the financial resources will pay what it takes to get it. Rumors floated around the bike shops(many times initiated by the bike shops themselves) that the government was controlling Harley production or that Harley themselves were limiting production to increase demand and prices. Fact was, it takes time to build new plants and train new workers. It takes time to get new products to dealers and those dealers most loyal will get the most products. Harley was working three shifts a day, seven days a week, just like the ammo and firearm manufacturers are today. They finally caught up with demand about the same time demand fell. I see that happening here with the firearms industry, just as it did 5 years ago.

 

[DPris]

What exactly would you expect to be told?
The shortage exists because people are buying ammunition as fast as it can be made.
Very simple, and I find peoples' inability to understand that infinitely more baffling than why the shortage exists.

Ammomakers are running at capacity, and there's no sense in expanding facilities that would be left sitting idle with workers laid off after the current panic subsides.
Denis

 

[BigD_in_FL]

NO one is expanding production capability with new capital investment. They are running all shifts, but you can only produce so much per hour. With 45+ million guns sold, mainly to new shooters, that is a lot of ammo to try and catch up to. Add in all the rumors and fear mongering, hoarding, etc., and we become our own worst enemy. I do not see this easing up for at least a year

 

[ScottRiqui]

What exactly would you expect to be told?
The shortage exists because people are buying ammunition as fast as it can be made.
Very simple, and I find peoples' inability to understand that infinitely more baffling than why the shortage exists.

Well, I do like the fact that Hornady's statement directly debunks the whole "the government is buying up all the ammo" thing, (at least in their case).

 

[BigD_in_FL]

That's probably because ATK got the majority contract........

 

[I'vebeenduped]

Is it too much to ask to be able to buy .22 cal???? I have not heard about DHS buying boatloads of THAT. Why is .22 caliber so darned hard to find and so impossible to stock!? I just want to practice again!

 

[iraiam]

Hodgdon as well

Why can't I find Hodgdon powders?

 

[hardworker]

Pretty sure the amount of ammo people claim DHS bought is a drop in the bucket compared to what the military uses. Supply is down because people buy it as soon as they can.

 

[Come and take it.]

Hornady manufacturers very little if any brass at all, except in the case of rimfire ammunition and I bet those cases are probably outsourced.

Major Brass case manufacturers have the most evasive replies imaginable.

Winchester has no faq or otherwise on their site.

Now it is highly believable and fully understood and out of the realm of conspiracy now that the DHS is attempting to manipulate the market. Anyone who is still in denial of this should do some further research.

Of course the governments purchases alone are not solely the issue.

Yes the beginnings of this panic can be traced to both government demand AND various lies spread by individuals or groups.

So my second attempt in this thread is to track down some of these false rumors.

One was that rimfire ammo was no longer going to be made due to its low profit margin.

Of course there has been the 5 year old ongoing panic that the government is incorporating short life span ammo or that ammo is getting ready to be barcoded.

SO....

lets compare notes and list any other rumors that may have started the panic on the civilian side.

 

[Dashunde]

Considering the ongoing and more recent issues with North Korea, and a few others, I would not at all be surprised if some contracts are at the very least hogging lead/copper/materials and slowing civilian production despite the manufacturers saying otherwise. At the very least it may be compounding our politically-driven shortage.
I doubt they can come right out and say they have ramped up contracts even if its true.

Imagine how many 22's are in a single .50cal round.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but this ongoing shortage of 22lr is making less and less sense with each passing week...

 

[DPris]

Very simple, on the rimfire as well as the rest- PEOPLE ARE JUST BUYING IT ALL UP!

Last week while at my regular gunshop I saw more customers come in looking for .22 ammo in an hour than I ever have before in a single year.
The shop was rationing it out at two boxes (100 rounds) per customer, and not gouging over it either, incidentally.

You don't read the forum posts where people describe deliveries to places like WalMart that are sold out within minutes of hitting the shelves?
This really should not be that hard to figure out.

Every ammomaker I talked to at the annual SHOT Show industry convention in January told me they were sold out on orders on everything for the rest of the year, at least. One is sold out for two years on .223.

Why waste energy on conspiracy theories & idiotic rumor-chasing?
One of the most basic tenets of economics- demand outpacing supply.
Denis

 

[southjk]

You can find all the .22 ammo you want. Right now bulkammo.com has 20 5250 round boxes of Federal. Yes it's expensive but if you want it you can buy it.

I'm not going in for the conspiracies. I see the ammo show up online and it's bought within minutes.

edit: here is a whole list of places you can buy .22.

 

[Come and take it.]

Here is a little bit of info from the NRA news

New shooters could worsen the situation but it is certainly not the cause.

New gun owners would almost certainly be pistol buyers and thus by handgun ammunition of the centerfire variety.

We saw the effect of this and added to the DHS contracts the entire situation there is explainable.

However the 22 ammunition shortage is almost certainly tied to outlandish rumors. There had to be an epicenter or a few epicenters that started the avalanche.

--------------------------------------

On the available 22 ammo it is certainly true you can find it at completely ludicrous prices pretty easily. More difficult at acceptable prices.

However price gouging is a symptom of the disease and not the cause of it. Price gouging only started after the panic began.

 

[BigD_in_FL]

You can find all the .22 ammo you want. Right now bulkammo.com has 20 5250 round boxes of Federal. Yes it's expensive but if you want it you can buy it.

I'm not going in for the conspiracies. I see the ammo show up online and it's bought within minutes.

It wasn't that long ago that I bought a similar deal on Remington, over 7000 rounds................for $95.00, not $920.00.............

 

[lcpiper]

Now it is highly believable and fully understood and out of the realm of conspiracy now that the DHS is attempting to manipulate the market. Anyone who is still in denial of this should do some further research.

I don't believe it one bit.

I am retired from the Army and have another 15 years of government contracting work behind me. I am certainly not the best authority you could find but I look at the completely crazy shortage of all but a few calibers and it just can't be because the government is buying it all up.

We have more then enough folks here that have reported that folks just buy it as soon as it hits the shelves and some of them are lining up to do it daily.

The government didn't have to buy any more then they normally do, they only had to threaten the bans and laws and we are making our own shortage all on our own.

 

[Webleymkv]

OK, let's assume for a minute that the whole ammo shortage is due to some sort of conspiracy by the DHS to buy up all the ammo from Winchester, Remington, and ATK so as not to leave any for the civilian market. The DHS has placed no orders with S&B, Prvi Partizan, Barnaul, Fiocchi or any of the other makers of imported ammo that is just as scarce as domestically made stuff and isn't reliant on American companies for components. Even if the government were hoarding brass and primers, it shouldn't affect the supply of imported ammo with steel cases and berdan primers.