To add to what 44 AMP has said, each different bullet design and make has a different profile. Even 2 very similar FMJ bullets can have a different taper from the pointy tip to the full diameter driving portion of the bullet that rides the bore. This affects how far the bullet can stick out past the brass and still smoothly chamber without hitting the rifling prematurely. While some reloading literature will give max overall length for 9mm FMJ as 1.169, that's not a goal length, just a max length to fit in most magazines. Most factory 9mm is loaded shorter for reliability. I measured Remington and Winchester 115 grain Bulk pack FMJ 9mm years ago and most of the rounds were around 1.130 to 1.135. Hornady's 124 XTP will have a shorter reliable overall length because of its profile. Check some factory 9mm FMJ and hollow points and you'll see the length of loaded rounds has a range, not a standard.
Reloading 9mm Luger problem
- Thread starter alanwk
- Start date
Back to the issue:
The OP says his loaded rounds fit the case gauge, but fail to seat fully in the barrel itself.
The OP says that his OAL is 1.082", while Berrys apparently says 1.09 "should" fit *
I ask the OP to please follow the process in Post#14 and tell us what the Max OAL is for that bullet in his barrel.
* (I'm going to out on a limb and offer THIS is the bullet)
The OP says his loaded rounds fit the case gauge, but fail to seat fully in the barrel itself.
The OP says that his OAL is 1.082", while Berrys apparently says 1.09 "should" fit *
I ask the OP to please follow the process in Post#14 and tell us what the Max OAL is for that bullet in his barrel.
* (I'm going to out on a limb and offer THIS is the bullet)
Agreed but nobody says or I've never heard them say seat the caliber diameter deeper . Even the OP him self is using COAL to explain the issue . Most comparators don't even measure that close to the actual caliber diameter so even that measurement is no better then COAL .
COAL is really what most of us use as our reference point even when the tip of the bullet is not the actual problem . If COAL X doesn't fit we try COAL Y and see if that does . Heck most seating dies don't come close to touching the tip of the bullet or full diameter of the bullet and yet we pull out our calipers after seating and measure the COAL anyways . Most of us even log the COAL ... seems like a pretty important measurement even if it measures off something that is often irrelevant in the grand scheme of the measurement/s .
Could I have said/written my OP better ... I think so but until the OP comes back and explains in a little more detail I think it was adequate .
1.169"
This is the listed maximum 9mm Luger loaded length. Any round loaded to this length, or less should function through any SAAMI spec pistol.
Should. HOWEVER, the spec dates from a time when there was only one bullet profile factory loaded in the round. Both the 124 and 115 bullets feature long tapered ogives and are more pointed than many other "RN" bullets.
TODAY there are many different bullets with different nose profiles, so going just by COAL max length is no longer a guarantee the load will function at that length, if the bullet used has a significantly shorter, "fatter" nose section than traditional FMJ slugs.
Yes, we all use COAL because it is a simple measurement, and consistent, for each bullet type/style a change in the COAL indicates an equal change in the amount of bullet inside the case. (seating depth)
Where you can run into trouble is loading different styles of bullets with the same COAL and expecting the seating depth to be the same. Consider spitzer and RN rifle bullets as an example. Same bullet weight, but the RN is shorter and fatter, so if you load both to the same measured overall length, you get different amounts of bullet depth in the case.
When you load both so the same amount of bullet is in the case, the COAL will be different. As long as you understand that, (and why) its not an issue.
The same applies to pistol bullets, but the difference is not quite as obvious and easily seen, most of the time.
IF the OP is doing what it sounds like he is doing, loading his particular bullet so long that it hits the rifling before the case is fully chambered (something no gauge can tell you) then he needs to seat it deeper, experimenting in small steps until he finds the depth that will keep the bullet clear of the rifling.
THEN he needs to work up his powder charge to what he desires with that bullet at the COAL that will chamber in his gun.
All guns are not equal, despite SAAMI specs, and as noted, some are "notorious" for short throats.
Friend of mine once had a couple of (modern) Walthers that would not chamber Cor-Bon 9mm ammo. The guns worked with everything else he tried, and Cor-Bon worked in the rest of his 9mms, but in those two the throats were too short for that ammo.
The only gauge that matters is the gun you are using. Max listed COAL is not a goal to be reached, its a limit to be avoided, most of the time. Some guns will take ammo loaded longer, many will not. The point is to make ammo that works in your gun, and if that means loading shorter than listed max, that's what you do. How much depends on your gun and your bullet.
This is the listed maximum 9mm Luger loaded length. Any round loaded to this length, or less should function through any SAAMI spec pistol.
Should. HOWEVER, the spec dates from a time when there was only one bullet profile factory loaded in the round. Both the 124 and 115 bullets feature long tapered ogives and are more pointed than many other "RN" bullets.
TODAY there are many different bullets with different nose profiles, so going just by COAL max length is no longer a guarantee the load will function at that length, if the bullet used has a significantly shorter, "fatter" nose section than traditional FMJ slugs.
Yes, we all use COAL because it is a simple measurement, and consistent, for each bullet type/style a change in the COAL indicates an equal change in the amount of bullet inside the case. (seating depth)
Where you can run into trouble is loading different styles of bullets with the same COAL and expecting the seating depth to be the same. Consider spitzer and RN rifle bullets as an example. Same bullet weight, but the RN is shorter and fatter, so if you load both to the same measured overall length, you get different amounts of bullet depth in the case.
When you load both so the same amount of bullet is in the case, the COAL will be different. As long as you understand that, (and why) its not an issue.
The same applies to pistol bullets, but the difference is not quite as obvious and easily seen, most of the time.
IF the OP is doing what it sounds like he is doing, loading his particular bullet so long that it hits the rifling before the case is fully chambered (something no gauge can tell you) then he needs to seat it deeper, experimenting in small steps until he finds the depth that will keep the bullet clear of the rifling.
THEN he needs to work up his powder charge to what he desires with that bullet at the COAL that will chamber in his gun.
All guns are not equal, despite SAAMI specs, and as noted, some are "notorious" for short throats.
Friend of mine once had a couple of (modern) Walthers that would not chamber Cor-Bon 9mm ammo. The guns worked with everything else he tried, and Cor-Bon worked in the rest of his 9mms, but in those two the throats were too short for that ammo.
The only gauge that matters is the gun you are using. Max listed COAL is not a goal to be reached, its a limit to be avoided, most of the time. Some guns will take ammo loaded longer, many will not. The point is to make ammo that works in your gun, and if that means loading shorter than listed max, that's what you do. How much depends on your gun and your bullet.
I don’t dispute any of that I’m just defending my cartridge Overall length is the issue.
I could’ve said, seating depth is the issue but they are the same thing . The case is a fixed size, so the only thing that affects cartridge overall length is seating depth it’s a given .
I feel my inner Guffey coming out which means I need to stop now . Sorry for the confusion everybody .
I could’ve said, seating depth is the issue but they are the same thing . The case is a fixed size, so the only thing that affects cartridge overall length is seating depth it’s a given .
I feel my inner Guffey coming out which means I need to stop now . Sorry for the confusion everybody .
What I mean is the cartridge does not sit even with the barrel. After reducing length it plunks even (flush) with the barrel.
Thank you for for this info. The best yet
stagpanther
New member
In other words, when you drop the cartridge into the barrel's chamber, the area of the case immediately in front of the rim/extractor groove and at the start of the case body is flush with the chamber face--fully-supported?
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Berry's offers no less than SIXTEEN different 9mm bullets. Just telling us you're using Berry's bullets doesn't really help at all.alanwk said:
I presume they mean 124g HHP, which stands for 124 grain Hybrid Hollow Point.
https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp-9mm-356-124gr-hhp
^^^^ THIS ^^^^
See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6956653&postcount=22
... for which Berrys recommends 1.09" as OAL point of departure.
If as suggested above the OP found 1.082" req'd to fit, that's not inconsistent.
See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6956653&postcount=22
... for which Berrys recommends 1.09" as OAL point of departure.
If as suggested above the OP found 1.082" req'd to fit, that's not inconsistent.
Exactly. Thank youStag, I think he meant that reducing OAL allowed the
cartridge to plunk w/ the base even to the barrel hood.
. . and I think he meant that OAL ended up being 1.082"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Which if so, is close enough to 1.09" for gov't work.
jetinteriorguy
New member
Here’s the method I use for loading 9mm. I take the barrel from my CZ75 since it has the shortest lead of any of my pistols. Then I take an empty resized case with no primer and seat a sample of whatever bullet I'm using to max OAL according to SAMI. Then I do the plunk test using my barrel and if it doesn’t plunk, seat it .005” deeper and plunk again, then keep repeating until it plunks. At this point I then seat it .010” deeper to allow for variances in the bullets and crimp, this then becomes my gage for setting the seating die in the future. I mark the case with a permanent marker which bullet it is. Then I determine the available space for powder and figure out how much powder will fit in the case without compressing the load and compare this to the max recommendation for the powder. If not enough room for the max load recommended I work up the load to the point of about a 90-95% case fill and use this as a max, and start at the recommended level until I’ve reached the max load I’ve determined with this process.
HighValleyRanch
New member
Good advice, but how do you determine the powder level using what measurement methods?
Marking the case with a permanent marker would not be fine enough, IMHO because of the width and variance of the magic marker.
And how do you account for the thickness of the rim?
Or do you simple use a depth gauge from the top of the case to the powder level?
Marking the case with a permanent marker would not be fine enough, IMHO because of the width and variance of the magic marker.
And how do you account for the thickness of the rim?
Or do you simple use a depth gauge from the top of the case to the powder level?
Ok, that one lost me....
I'm a bit of the odd man out when it comes to 9mms, I'm down to three, none of them current "service class".
I have a Contender, a Calico carbine and a Luger. I don't do the "plunk test" never had a need. The Contender is the only one its practical with, and it doesn't seem to care at all what bullet or how long it is.
Nearly everything I load in 9mm these days is "range fodder" duplicating (more or less) the 124gr or 115gr German WWII loads.
I'm familiar with the issues you're having, but with what I use these days, I don't have those issues.