President's Gun Control Proposals
- Thread starter hogdogs
- Start date
Evan Thomas
New member
Exactly.MLeake said:
Saying that "The innocent have nothing to fear" leads to a very slippery slope.
I too have no problem passing the NICS background check, but I do resent it, even though I see the point of trying to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, etc. But the NCIS already doesn't do much good there: a criminal who really wants a gun can get one easily enough. The only thing that makes the current system tolerable for me is that the FBI is required to destroy identifying information after 24 hours, and all records after 90 days.
I'm not that troubled by the retention requirement for 4473s by FFLs, but for the government to have a permanent database including records of what guns I own -- No, thank you.
And the current requirements for destruction of records are contained in the regulations regarding the implementation of the GCA, so presumably could be changed without going through Congress. THAT bothers me...
Please tell me if you disagree, but my opinion is that, in their secret meetings, the pols pushing for gun control picked a bunch of stuff Obama could do by EO, a bunch of stuff that might pass in Congress and several things that probably won't, all to demonstrate their concern for victims of such shootings ... the next time it happens, everything they REALLY want, like full registration, no semi-auto weapons period, ammo restrictions, etc, will be back on the table and that much harder to fight. Imagine the scene in Congress a few weeks from now when they take up Feinstein's travesty, for instance ... but picture another Newtown or Aurora between now and then ... even Republicans would have a hard time saying no to a new AWB and whatever else BO dreams up ... IMHO the next four years will be a nightmare and very possibly a disaster for those of us who believe in the 2A and love guns, for whatever purpose ... Hope I'm wrong ...
Giving the Government the power to aprove the sale of your personal property WILL affect you! Once it has been established that the Federal Government has the power to decide if you can sell your guns, and to whom you can sell them too, it will expand that power to other personal property.
Approval of private sales of firearms is more than just a public safety issue, it is an issue of freedom and civil rights.
I don't want the government regulating the disposal of my personal property, be it my motorcycle or my guns.
I just finished reading the propasal. Nothing I didn't expect to see.
All guns sales (private sales) to be background checked? How are you going to enforce that? The actual lanquage is "encourage", not enforce so that one doesn't mean anything.
Calls for a ban on "assualt rifle" manufacture. No call for regisration or buy backs. Nothing to prohibite sales of weapons already on the market. The same with high cap mags. Even this would have to get through congress first. We will have to wait and see.
Glad I'm not in the mental health industry. I'll bet that's going to be a mess figuring out were privacy ends and public safety begins.
All guns sales (private sales) to be background checked? How are you going to enforce that? The actual lanquage is "encourage", not enforce so that one doesn't mean anything.
Calls for a ban on "assualt rifle" manufacture. No call for regisration or buy backs. Nothing to prohibite sales of weapons already on the market. The same with high cap mags. Even this would have to get through congress first. We will have to wait and see.
Glad I'm not in the mental health industry. I'll bet that's going to be a mess figuring out were privacy ends and public safety begins.
The hidden danger to gun owners behind Obama's executive orders
Here's my latest Detroit Gun Right Examiner column on today's gun control press conference where he decided to do it "for the children."
The hidden danger to gun owners behind Obama's executive orders
"Although the big news from President Obama’s press conference today is his call for more gun control legislation, the real immediate threat to American’s 2nd Amendment rights may lay in the executive orders he signed immediately afterwards.
In his carefully staged press conference the president surrounded himself with children he said wrote him letters about gun violence while he outlined his “wish list” for gun control legislation."
Here's my latest Detroit Gun Right Examiner column on today's gun control press conference where he decided to do it "for the children."
The hidden danger to gun owners behind Obama's executive orders
"Although the big news from President Obama’s press conference today is his call for more gun control legislation, the real immediate threat to American’s 2nd Amendment rights may lay in the executive orders he signed immediately afterwards.
In his carefully staged press conference the president surrounded himself with children he said wrote him letters about gun violence while he outlined his “wish list” for gun control legislation."
MLeake said:
I'm with MLeake on this and in the same boat (pun indented for MLeake
) with a very high level clearance and very in-depth background checks. My only additional concern is that there are several databases used for some positions. My fear is that what databases are they going to use for background checks and to what level are they going to deny? You're hearing medical records, including reports from doctors. What about nurses, social workers, teachers, etc...the door will be opened and the screening criteria will be manipulated for whoever is in power. It used to always be "buyers beware"; now you're seeing a shift to seller beware. Would I knowingly sell firearms to an evil-intentioned individual with a criminal record? Absolutely not! But I also doubt even a local PD background check would catch disturbing PTSD or other mental health issues hidden in their medical records.
I think the way to address private sales is to have a system in place in local PD's allowing the individual to pay a very small, nominal fee (no more than $5.00) to run a background check on themselves and present the "clean bill of health" to the seller with a date in the past 30 days or so. No records need to be kept, no addresses needed (if done in person) and the seller would have peace of mind. No need to keep the background check or at least make them only good for 60-90 days before needing another one. Plenty of LE officers will run a quick check in their database...that should be sufficient, but again, you're not linking to some massive medical database. Can't answer that one...
As MLeake mentioned, once the process becomes overly cumbersome, attrition will occur due to inconvenience. That and many sales will go underground or an explosion of a black-market...
ROCK6
I think it likely that Congress will use the very recent New York state law (yesterday) as a reason to hold back getting serious about making a new law.
This is because the NY state law exists. It is lying there, just calling for the full-meal-deal through the court system. And that means Congress can wait. "Wanting to see what the latest case law will say....." That sort of thing.
I'm actually feeling relieved at what I read in Post #30. The Prez has made his political statement, Joe Bite-em can return to his real job, and we gun owners don't seem badly hurt.
Bart Noir
This is because the NY state law exists. It is lying there, just calling for the full-meal-deal through the court system. And that means Congress can wait. "Wanting to see what the latest case law will say....." That sort of thing.
I'm actually feeling relieved at what I read in Post #30. The Prez has made his political statement, Joe Bite-em can return to his real job, and we gun owners don't seem badly hurt.
Bart Noir
I don't have any real problem with any of the executive orders, and think some of them will actually help keep schools safer. Particularly the one providing incentives for the hiring of resource officers (LEO's). I don't see any of it as a "power grab" by the president. I also don't see any problem with making a NICS check available to private parties if performed by an FFL or LEO agency, no transfer information is recorded, and the process is voluntary and provided for a small fee (under $5).
There are plenty of people out there who would like to know that the person they are selling a gun to in a private sale is not a criminal.
But universal background checks mandated by the Fed? Unacceptable.
There are plenty of people out there who would like to know that the person they are selling a gun to in a private sale is not a criminal.
But universal background checks mandated by the Fed? Unacceptable.
SPEMack618
New member
I just wrote my Congressional representatives stating that I do not support the confirmation of a full time director for the BATFE until that bunch of lying, thieving, murdering thugs answers for Fast and Furious.
Didn't call them that of course.
In reading through these, it appears to me that the only EO that would have helped at Sandy Hook is the better preperation on behalf of First Responders and Law Enforcements for mass shooters.
Didn't call them that of course.
In reading through these, it appears to me that the only EO that would have helped at Sandy Hook is the better preperation on behalf of First Responders and Law Enforcements for mass shooters.
Itchy Llama
New member
quote:
Assault weapons??? Don't we already have restrictions and limitations on select fire weapons?
THANK YOU!!!!
Assault weapons??? Don't we already have restrictions and limitations on select fire weapons?
THANK YOU!!!!
Evan Thomas
New member
So the information on page 3, section D (maker, serial number, etc.) of the 4473 isn't part of what's sent to the Feds during the background check?
I didn't know that. It's... somewhat... reassuring.
I didn't know that. It's... somewhat... reassuring.
Technosavant
New member
The "publish a letter to FFLs on how to run background checks for private sales" has been done.
A link to this letter hit my inbox this afternoon.
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2...s-of-firearms-between-private-individuals.pdf
Nothing most people didn't know, but it puts everything in one spot. It does encourage FFLs to do transfers (I'm not sure why some don't... it would make money for them, especially for people who just walk in off the street; they can charge $50 or so for just a few minutes of work) and clarifies a few regulations.
A link to this letter hit my inbox this afternoon.
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2...s-of-firearms-between-private-individuals.pdf
Nothing most people didn't know, but it puts everything in one spot. It does encourage FFLs to do transfers (I'm not sure why some don't... it would make money for them, especially for people who just walk in off the street; they can charge $50 or so for just a few minutes of work) and clarifies a few regulations.
sigcurious
New member
They are, but that does not make a registry. Perhaps you should heed your own signature line...Just because your opinion is that it's a registry does not in fact make it a registry. Paper trail =/= registry.
apom said:
You should make sure you know what is being proposed before you agree to it.
The administration is not proposing background checks only for sales of guns, but for 'transfers' of guns - including temporary transfers of possession. This is the same type of provision that is in H.R.21 ("temporary transfer of possession without transfer of title").
There is, but it would be very difficult in most cases to collate into a database. Furthermore, federal law prohibits the ATF from doing so.
I just got it, too. You're right. It suggests that FFL's encourage folks to go through them rather than transferring the guns between individuals.
And that's it.