Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
How many of those had 80k+ psi chamber pressures and what do you define as “still going strong?” Not keyholing?
Pentagon Confirms Move to 6.8mm
- Thread starter ed308
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How many of those had 80k+ psi chamber pressures and what do you define as “still going strong?” Not keyholing?
They are undergoing testing right now. Testing that will end is adoption of the new 6.8mm round for US Army.
Obsolescence is a powerful motivator.
This isn't going to the moon or some huge unobtainable engineering leap.
The specification calls for 60-80k. 60k is current 7.62mm NATO standard chamber pressure and 80k represents a 25% increase. Remington 7mm Magnum is 65k...
I think folks are being somewhat melodramatic in a vacuum.
Jim Watson
New member
Do we have a velocity? Early rumors had it up in the .270 Weatherby range.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
In the recent press release for their NGSW entry, Mars, Inc. and Cobalt Kinetics claim to be launching a 140gr 6.8 bullet at 3,200fps from an 18” barrel.
See: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...new-carbine-and-lmg-for-us-army-ngsw-program/
It looks like they are using a traditional case though - basically just a fat WSSM style case.
See: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...new-carbine-and-lmg-for-us-army-ngsw-program/
It looks like they are using a traditional case though - basically just a fat WSSM style case.
stagpanther
New member
Right off the bat it looks like a "fatty" double stack magazine based system, while they can work; that puts significant sidewall pressure on the magazines and also puts pressure on the spring/follower which in turn makes it harder to get reliable feed from the lips. Magazines will probably cost as much--and weigh as much loaded--as the rifle.
Stag, your link is not working. Interesting the felt recoil for the .308 version was similar to a .223/5.56. Here's the link:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/08/28/mars-inc-and-cobalt-kinetics-submit-new-carbine-and-lmg-for-us-army-ngsw-program/
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/08/28/mars-inc-and-cobalt-kinetics-submit-new-carbine-and-lmg-for-us-army-ngsw-program/
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
TFL truncates links, so if you quote someone else’s truncated link, the link won’t work (unless you go into VBB and fix it]). The original link will still work however, even though it looks the same as the quoted link.
2damnold4this
New member
Does it say how many rounds that magazine holds and what the loaded rifle will weigh?
On edit: I see it says 20 rounds in a magazine.
On edit: I see it says 20 rounds in a magazine.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
The MARS rifle is 8lbs with a 13” barrel. Not sure if that is loaded or unloaded, with optics, etc. There is also a 70rd drum.
Honestly, I have a hard time seeing that one being the winner.
ETA: A similar dark-horse entry, the XR68 from VK weighs “less than 9lbs unloaded” with a 16” barrel and no optics.
Honestly, I have a hard time seeing that one being the winner.
ETA: A similar dark-horse entry, the XR68 from VK weighs “less than 9lbs unloaded” with a 16” barrel and no optics.
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Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Speaking of which, AAI/Textron, General Dynamics, and SIG Sauer have been picked to go forward on NGSW: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/08/29/ngsw-program/
2damnold4this
New member
The MARS rifle did look interesting. When was the last time the US adopted an automatic weapon with the long recoil system? The Chauchat?
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Video of Textron’s entry firing a 6.8 cased telescoped projectile, Apparently, Textron will be teaming up with H&K as well.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=O7QqppSKGzw
Textron is one of the winners announced yesterday, though not sure if their entry still looks like this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=O7QqppSKGzw
Textron is one of the winners announced yesterday, though not sure if their entry still looks like this.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Sure, it exists just like SPIW, ACR, XM8, XM25, ICSR, and LSAT exist(ed).
And I might add, we at least have an idea of how well some of those met or failed to meet threshhold and objective requirements. Currently, there is no such information available for any of the NGSW contenders.
And I might add, we at least have an idea of how well some of those met or failed to meet threshhold and objective requirements. Currently, there is no such information available for any of the NGSW contenders.
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Little know factoid.... the XM8 not only exist's but is in the arms rooms of some units in the US Army. Politics killed the XM8 as a rifle the Army did not really need at the time.
The G36 shares almost all the steel components with the XM8, btw. The entire Bundeswehr used it. The XM8 is simply a G36 with different furniture. Malaysia uses them too.
The XM25 was technology the Political Army wanted but none of the warfighters needed. The Rangers killed the program the moment they got their hands on it. Simply put, A 40mm airburst was much more effective or airburst a Carl Gustav round while the XM25 was heavy and limited in its round capacity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDEV07ZzQjY
Politics is a motivator but Obsolescence is a much more powerful motivator.
None of those programs were cancelled leaving the Army in Obsolescence. 5.56mm is obsolete on the modern battlefield and that is just the hard truth.
The G36 shares almost all the steel components with the XM8, btw. The entire Bundeswehr used it. The XM8 is simply a G36 with different furniture. Malaysia uses them too.
The XM25 was technology the Political Army wanted but none of the warfighters needed. The Rangers killed the program the moment they got their hands on it. Simply put, A 40mm airburst was much more effective or airburst a Carl Gustav round while the XM25 was heavy and limited in its round capacity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDEV07ZzQjY
Politics is a motivator but Obsolescence is a much more powerful motivator.
None of those programs were cancelled leaving the Army in Obsolescence. 5.56mm is obsolete on the modern battlefield and that is just the hard truth.
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Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
If 5.56 is obsolete, why are they only proposing to buy 86,000 some odd rifles? Last time I looked, just active duty Army was around 476k troops not including reserve or National Guard components. 86,000 rifles is what? 3 infantry divisions, assuming no reserve supplies?
FYI: The G36 is being replaced by H&K’s piston AR.
FYI: The G36 is being replaced by H&K’s piston AR.
The G36 is being replaced. The Bundeswehr used a light barrel variant which did not turn out to be so good in sustained firefights.
Over a million folks in uniform and you guys think a paltry 167,000 M4's over a five year spread is a big deal?
33,000 rifles a year?????
That will get the service thru to 2022 and the transition phase to 6.8mm....
IF they conserve. If anything that is what is called in the Intelligence world "an indicator" and not a good one for those banking on the service keeping 5.56mm M4's around.
That is about it.
Over a million folks in uniform and you guys think a paltry 167,000 M4's over a five year spread is a big deal?
33,000 rifles a year?????
That will get the service thru to 2022 and the transition phase to 6.8mm....
IF they conserve. If anything that is what is called in the Intelligence world "an indicator" and not a good one for those banking on the service keeping 5.56mm M4's around.
That is about it.
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