Ordered my 1851 .36 Navy today and ...

[Remington kid]

Low Key, I have to admit I was a little serprised at just how clear the sight picture is but it could be improved. There is an artical in Mec's book that say's they made the hammer notch wider to give a better view. That may be the way I go but I won't change anything until I shoot it a few times.
Going to spend the day tearing it down and cleaning it up and just getting to know the gun in general. I'll take it apart and put it back together a few times just to get a good feel for everything.

 

[Old Dragoon]

Covet, Covet, Covet....

COVET, COVET, COVET!!!! lLOL
Allright you guys. Now you've done it. I gotta have a 51 Navy...again. I still say they are the best handling, balance and feel of any of the Colts.

I can't keep spending money on guns.
I can't keep spending money on guns.
I can't keep spending money on guns. LOL

I simply love a 51 navy. Egads, you guys are a bad influence! LOL

I'll have to wait until I get the second converter, .....Or, ... maybe..... I can shoot one gun with the BP cylinders...Hmmm I have 3 now...load them all..40 grns...and reload after the second or third stage... You guys are for certain sure a bad influnce...I wouldn't have it any other way. LOL

Oh well what's the use of money if you can't buy Bp and guns.

You guys get the full 51 Navy or the pocket model, I like the full 51 Navy.

 

[Remington kid]

OD, I got the full version and it's really nice looking and well made. Took it apart and cleaned up all the jaged edges and polished all the innerds. Then I reduced the hammer spring by beveling the sides with a basterd file and then sanding smooth. Reduced the trugger pull just a tad, rounded the edges of the frame right on each side of where the hammer rest. This should allow the caps to run over as the cylinder turns without catching on that frame corner and falling off before they should.I'm going to chamfer the mouth of the cylinder holes but but not the breach of the barrel. No reason to do the barrel due to the tight fit from cylinder to barrel. I may chamfer the muzzle but haven't made up my mind sence most of the cleaning will be from the breach end on this revolver.
I ran 6 #10 cci caps they fit real well and fired fine but one seemed weak. I just don't trust there caps, Had some bad one's several times. Shot 6 #10 Remington's and they all worked perfect as always but just not quite as snug as I like them to be. All 6 ran through it with no cycle problems at all. The caps all fell off just as they should as the cylinder was rotated.Looks like i'm going to stick to the #10 Remington
Now go order that Navy! Mike

 

[Old Dragoon]

Can't do it right now.
I'm beveling the cylinder pin holes on 3 BP cylinders....!
My jest about shooting one revolver with the BP cylinders will happen. I feel I can do 3 stages then reload one or two cylinders during the break.

Those conversion cylinders are expensive. and i could have 3 pistols ready for the next CAS match. My first will be cut down further to 4 3/4 inches. I didn't like my first dovetail it just didn't fit like I wanted it to. OK so after 30 years I'm out of practice, but now am ready to do it again. I'm probably going to cut the sight channel into the bbl and sweat a piece of silver or brass into the slot then cut down to POA. Anyway this is a winter project, now that I have a 2 others.
Nice to have a spare.

 

[Remington kid]

Here is a picture of the new .36 Colt. Finished tuning it and now it runs so smooth you would think it was made from greased lightening,lol.
This picture shows the altered wedge puller that I call a wedge or pin pusher. It really works great! Also you can see what you get in the spair parts kit from Cabelas for $17.99. Most places charge you more than that just for a new hammer!!!

[/IMG]

 

[Smokin_Gun]

1971 Colt notes...

Hi Guys, just a couple notes from a Colt manuel I thought were interesting. It's the way I was doin the caps anyway, always have. May help...

A few quotes from a 1971 Colt Industries Firearms Division pamphlet on cap and ball revolvers:
"In general, it may be taken as a good rule that as long as a shooter sticks to black powder and pure lead, anything that he can get into the chamber of a cap and ball Colt will come out of it again with no damage to the gun."

"FFG black powder is best for the large and medium-size revolvers, and FFFG for the small pocket models, but any grade that is available will work reasonably well."

"Percussion caps are now made in sizes from nine to thirteen. Ten and eleven are the best numbers for the small and medium sized arms, and twelve for the larger sizes."

"It is better to have caps slightly too large than too small, as large caps can be pinched together at the bottom enough so they will stay on the nipples..."

 

[mec]

the larger colts like the dragoon have fairly visible sight pictures. On the army/navy sized revolvers, I routinely widen the notch with a small file set. It becomes more visible and get very fine targets as a result:

 

[Remington kid]

Mec, Altough I haven't shot this 51 yet I do know that I will have to widen the hammer notch just a little. It just seems a little blurie to me as is and it needs a little more light in the groove for me.
Also took the spare parts today and matched and fitted them perfectly, oiled them real good and put them in my shooting box. Makes it nice to have them ready to go if needed.
Once I get my .380 mold I can cast some bullets and do some shooting! I was hoping it would be here today. Played around with casting some .454 this afternoon and the first few were terrible! Think I got it figured out now.
I just may have to place a front dovetailed ramp sight on this 51 but I'm hoping it will be alright the way it is. I really like the front sight on it.
It sure looks like you don't have any problem hit with that one!

 

[Steve499]

I shot my pocket navy today and, sure enough, it was about 16 inches high at 25 yards. It didn't group too bad but I find my "advanced maturity" eyesight and the little vee in the hammer aren't very compatible. I'm going to have to dovetail a new front sight in and maybe even cut the hammer nose back a little bit to lower the rear sight some, along with opening up the sight notch. It is a slick little revolver but likes to get hung up on the fired caps. About 1 out of 3 or 4 will peel off the nipple and be laying in the hammer cut in the frame, then will drop down in front of the base of the hammer when you cock for the next shot. Other times a piece of cap will roll around and gum things up elsewhere. I had to pull the barrel and cylinder a few times to unlock it. But, hey, I'm not complaining, it's all just part of the fun trying to puzzle out ways to get it all to work, right?

My .375 balls load with no ring shaved off and little resistance. They don't move in the chambers under recoil so they apparently have enough tension, isn't that the test? The ease they load with is nice, given that little, short loading lever on the pocket models.

I've cut dovetails a few times but am certainly no expert. Any suggestions or pointers?
Steve

 

[mec]

That thing with the caps turning into a hammer block safety is common. Best fix is to point the barrel downward when cocking and it helps to wipe the hammer face clean every time you load it.

The upright position or the "gunfighter flip " contributes to the caps falling down the hammer notch. I watched a "Wild West Tech" a while back were a trick shooter was working a pair of navies. He was going pretty fast but you could see him dip the guns at a downward angle every time he cocked them.

It also helps-particularly with a smaller colt type, to radius the right side of the frame next to the hammer, deepen the groove in the frame between the hammer and capping notch and moderately relieve the frame in the same area to provide more cap clearance. If you use a dremel tool, be aware that it has a way of jumping out of the groove and engraving the breach.

 

[Remington kid]

Steve, Start reading on page 90 of Mec's book. It shows you just what he is showing above and other little tid bits of tunning help on these open tops in cluding a sight fix as you mentioned above.
I did find that the cci #10 caps slide on like a glove but I just don't trust them yet. Had a few that were low powered so I went back to my Remington #10 and they start on loose but as you slide them all the way down they fit perfectly. After trying several full cycle cylinders with these caps and after altering or rounding the corner of the frame by the hammer as Mec shows above I never lost one cap in the works. I have no doubt that it will happen from time to time.
Another reason I like the hotter Remington caps is because I have been useing the Pyrodex "P" and it takes a little more spark to ignite this stuff.
Now if I can learn to cast these bullets so they don't look like they have already been shot and if my .380 mold gets here soon I'll be able to shoot this Navy!

 

[mec]

It takes a while to boil all the lubricant out of thoses moulds and get them to the right temperature. Then the wrinkles disappear.

Here's Bates re-sighted pocket Navy. New, it shot way high but now is good. He still hasn't relieved the frame so experiences glitchiness in function. It is accurate though- a lot easier to hit with than the 4" .31 pocket models

Bates spent about a day cutting that dovetail. Better him than me as he is a much better gun mechanic than I am.

 

[Steve499]

Thanks, you guys, for all the help. I'm getting ready to spend a day in the shop working on my pocket navy. I just hope I can maintain the finish around the dovetail. I usually get one or two uh-ohs on anything I do, seems like.

I read about the modifications in your most excellent book, mec, about improving fired cap handling in the Colt replicas. I intend to follow them and thanks for the tip down on cocking tip. With my Remington, it seems to work better to tip it upward. I probably exacerbated the problem with the pocket navy by my Remington habits. By the way, I tried your Wild Bill 75 yard one handed shot yesterday and only got 4 hits out of 6 on the silhouette, 3 in the body and one in the head, using the Remington .44. Then I backed up about 5 more yards to where I had an upright post to rest my left wrist against and, two-handed, hit it all six times, center mass. The 30 grain charge of fffg seems to have quite a bit of drop, I was aiming at the neck to get center mass hits. I think this black powder revolver stuff is the most fun you can have while vertical!

Kid, I find the Remington # 10 caps work well for the first couple of cylinders with the 1858 Remington, then I begin to have misfires as the nipples foul up. It always fires the second time around on those. I can use # 11s till the cows come home without having that happen. I do like the way the 10s fit tightly without having to pinch them so I have been using both. I've not shot the pocket navy enough to decide for certain but mine seems to like the 10s just fine.

Steve

 

[tinker2]

Steve499

“I just hope I can maintain the finish around the dovetail.
I usually get one or two uh-ohs on anything I do”

I put one or two layers of two inch wide masking tape over
what I am working on so if I am cutting a dovetail or the like,
and as careful as I can be, any missnakes don’t go through
the tape.

Good luck with it.

 

[mec]

Heck, at 75 yards, I was using TWO hands just like jbh. I believe you did very well.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Steve, found that bringin the Rev up to a 90 degree angle then cocking helps eliminate alot of the cap frag problems. Also I use a Lee 2 cavity .380 RB Mold in my 1851 Navy Uberti ... can order from just about anywhere... http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=519841

 

[Oldelm]

Steve.........If you didn't want to go through the work involved with cutting the barrel for a dovetailed site, you could consider silver soldering a brass cone, which I did with my '62 Pocket Police.

I took a piece of brass welding rod about 3" long and hollowed out a cone shaped recess in one end with a cone shaped Dremel mill bit.

That recess conformed pretty much to receive the small factory cone bead on the barrel. I ground the new site into a rough cone, but left it attached to the 3" piece of brass rod (so I could hold it better), then cut it off once it was soldered in place. I heated the factory sight for soldering with a small, focused butane torch, so as not to damage the bluing, then before final shaping with fine files, I wrapped around the barrel/new sight with masking tape so as not to scratch the barrel.

It worked pretty good. The new sight is solid, and its height , combined with filing a deeper notch in the hammer rear sight,.... has really helped it shoot more to point of aim.

 

[MPP1423]

Hey Guys,im Still Alive.steve Your Right Ive Been Very Busy At Work Plus The Holidays So I Havent Had The Time To Get On Here.work Has Been Crazy.this Is What Happened With My .31.i Got The 49 From Dixie And It Broke After 20 Shots,sent It Back And Got The Brass Framed 1863 Rem Pocket .31,the Tip Of The Hand Broke After 16 Shots,i Have Ordered Two Hands From Vti And Im Going To Have Dixie Send Me One As Well.so,i Have Had No Luck With This .31 Business.maybe Its Not For Me To Have One Of These .31's.lol.i Hope All Of Yall Had A Good Xmas And New Year.

 

[Steve499]

That's a really good job on a really good idea, Oldelm! I have already completed mine but I will definitely keep that fix in mind for future reference. I made a steel blade sight with a profile similar to a peacemaker's. I got it filed down to shoot point of aim today and opened up the hammer notch. My wife was knocking bowling pins down with it at about 15 yards, 5 out of 5.

Kevin, good to hear from you. I was traumatized by Palmetto as well! Never again! As far as the hand goes on your little Remington, I think the hand spring is going to break on any B.P. revolver I shoot. If it don't break today, it'll probably break tomorrow. I just expect it and am pleasantly surprised every time it doesn't happen. I've never actually broken the hand itself but, hey, I have extras, bring it on! I sit around the house with mine, cocking and recocking, so my hands & springs are "high mileage" pretty quick. I look at hand failure sorta like having a flat tire ; pain in the posterior but no big production to get going again.

Steve

 

[MPP1423]

well steve,thats what im hoping!the rem 63 pocket .31 is really cool and much smaller than the 49.it group super but it too is 8-9 in high at 12-15 yards but ill fix that as well.i ordered 2 new hands,a mainspring,and a bolt from VTI and im also going to have dixie send me a new hand as well.i like this one much better than that 49 from dixie,it was a junker at the end.live and learn.