Obtaining an alien firearms license - WA State

[Inspector3711]

Congratulations to you all when you obtain your citizenship. I'm not against any of you being in this country, you (and my great grandparents) are a big part of what makes this country great. I do however believe that there are many more important issues that deserve a higher priority in our government.

I have friends and neighbors that have alien status. They all happen to realize that they need to obtain citizenship before they have rights as a US citizen. They don't expect to receive a drivers license with completing a course and passing a test for example. Why on earth would they expect to be able to buy a firearm without being a citizen? Why would they be outraged and upset? They already are aware of the fact that they haven't become citizens yet. They know that soon they will have those rights. There are procedures in place to insure this.

 

[allserene]

I passed my motorcycle test in Florida and my car test in Wisconsin - exactly the same as a citizen.

I want to live my life and follow my interests exactly like anyone else.

If I can be allowed to drive, then why not a single shot .22 target rifle ?

I could kill a lot more people with my V6 Toyota in downtown Seattle if I chose to

US Citizens are treated as equals in the UK. If the people in the UK knew how US Citizens want to treat them here in the US, the US military in the UK could have their rights withdrawn.

Actually that would not happen because the UK is a mature country and all this was sorted out hundreds of years ago - they realised that having different classes of people with different rights was simply not fair and led to conflict. The UK would not go back to treating people differently. No confederate pro-slavery flags there

Actually there is one difference - a Catholic cannot become Monarch. I think that's disgraceful and a throw back. Hows about we allow Catholics to be Monarch in exchange for me getting a .22

Even Citizens are graded into first and second class in the USA - eg Arnold cannot become president - so the suspicion never goes way - it's built in

Distrust and suspicion of foreigners is a prime indicator of a primitive and inward looking and backward society and the US needs to shed that. I suppose with only 40% of US Citizens having a passport, that big world out there must seem scary

They were talking about a new plane that would go 10,000 miles an hour on cnn this morning. The bimbo said 'wow we could get from new york to tampa in a few minutes' - no suggestion of how they could get to europe or australia or asia and it would open up the world ..

So inward looking

My parents were from a more rural place and warned me about people from the city 10 miles way. These people were different to us and didnt have our ways and were not to be trusted - my mother called them 'townies'. So I came upon small town primitive thinking at an early age and I am no stranger to it and I know it comes from lack of education and/or experience of the world and just plain ignorance

If you and I walked into any US City center at 2am tomorrow and I pointed out the people hanging round there (nearly all US Citizens), and asked you whether I or they should be handed a gun right now, I wonder if your call would be the same ?

 

[MD_Willington]

My local reps just contacted me, they are on board with this...

 

[cubanitojr]

Allserene.

We DO HAVE the right to bear arms as greencard holders in WA. The process of obtaining the AFL is truncated by the failure of the DOL of not meeting the FBI criminal background check requirements.

It would be really interesting to see if the WA state criminally charge a current AFL holder that will expire per say tomorrow, this person will be in violation of the law but at the same time can not renew his AFL.

I think this would open doors for civil action against the WA state.

 

[allserene]

Don't risk it Cubanitojr because their eyes go glassy and they go into automaton (I am not programmed to respond it that area) mode.

They would execute a terrier if someone spelled it's collar tag as terrorist

They are programmed to command and we must obey

Sound familiar ?

 

[cubanitojr]

The saga continues...

I just sent this email tho Ross Hunter. I think, it may help in her efforts.

Dear Ross,

I found this letter from the FBI. Apparently the DOL does have access to criminal records by fingerprints and they also want access to ICE databases. This letter outlines how the DOL may proceed to access the ICE databases to identify aliens status and extra info. on criminal records for greencard holders this is none-sense since it is impossible to hold a greencard with criminal records. Again, this may clarify the AFL issue, but I personally believe green card holders should not require an AFL (just like in the other 49 states), AFLs may only apply to non-immigrant aliens like, sports events visitors, visa holders or foreign security personal.

Is the WA state criminally charging currently expired AFLs holders? They do possess firearms, but are unable to renew their licenses. I am just curious.

Again, thanks for all your efforts.

 

[allserene]

Nice one - as a GC holder I would feel bad for respectable non GC holders but it would open the door and be a start..

As you say, GC people have been more deeply documented and fingerprinted and weighed and measured and photographed and FBI checked than any US Citizen - and they have our blood too !

 

[MD_Willington]

RE: The letter...

Yep, that's the letter I got back from Cathy McMorris Rogers & the FBI.

In fact it is sitting right here beside me, next to the letters from Cantwell & Murray.

The letter does have a contact on it.


I'll probably call the office today.


Regarding background checks, they really do have everything on us, even full access to our medical records, we agree to let them have those records right on the License form.

 

[cubanitojr]

What do you guys think?

I would really like go hunting for wild pigs in the Oregon area. My girlfriend lives down there.

Would it be legal to obtain a Oregon hunting license, purchase the rifle down there (since AFLs are not required), hunt and keep the gun in Oregon state?

Certainly it would not be a violation of the WA state law since everything would be done in Oregon. But I am not sure if any Federal laws would be broken.

Any ideas?

 

[allserene]

I know women and they would read that second line the wrong way !

I reckon you are clear on Washington law but I don't know about Oregon and whether you need to be a resident there in order to possess a firearm there... it's about reciprocal agreements between states very often

 

[cubanitojr]

I checked the Oregon Law, This is what is required for Aliens.

1. Oregon Valid Drivers License or ID card
2. Be 21 or older
3. Social Security Card
4. Permanent resident GreenCard
5. Proof of residency (Phone or utility bill)

I wish WA law was this simple.

I could buy my guns the same day ! No waiting periods or BS.

The problem is that I work and live in WA. So I wonder how Vancouver, WA residents working in Portland, OR deal with this?

Maybe I should move all together to OR and ignore WA until the AFL issue is resolved. Tempting...Immigrating to a free-er state to exercise my right to 2nd amendment. I love this country !

 

[allserene]

I think they have State Income tax though so we couldn't afford the fuel to barbecue the wild pig

Let's face it we are stuffed until somebody cares

I wish some real ALIENS would come floating down - then they would be giving guns to all the terrestrial ALIENS to fight them off

Rudyard Kipling had it right:

and it's Tommy this and it's Tommy that and it's throw him out the brute
But it's 'saviour of his country' when the guns begin to shoot

 

[cubanitojr]

Lip served, disappointed and more bureaucracy wait.

Lip served, disappointed and more bureaucracy wait.

Guys this is Rep. Ross response.

===============================================

The solution to this problem is to move the responsibility for issuing these permits from DOL to the State Patrol. Since it will involve moving staff around this may be difficult. The inertia that these people create is painful. I will get one of the guys who work on gun issues to work through this and make sure they get it right.

I tend to irritate the pro-gun people, so it’s better if I’m not the guy working it. I don’t have any issues with this – I’m sure the people who actually apply for these licenses do not cause much problem, and probably generate some revenue for parts of the state that could use it.

We can’t do anything until January. You’ll miss hunting season this year. Sorry. You should apply for citizenship at some point and avoid this hassle.

Representative Ross Hunter
Finance Committee Chairman

333 John L. O'Brien Building
Capitol Campus
Olympia, WA 98504
(360) 786-7936 Olympia Office
(425) 453-3064 District Office
==============================================

Yes, he is right. I will miss hunting season this year. He does not understand applying for Citizenship is not like obtaining a drivers license. I can not even apply until the beginning of 2010.

It serves no purpose not being able to legally own a rifle on my own property. I will sell my ranch, lay off my workers and remove all assets from WA and move to beautiful Colorado.

 

[allserene]

Washington State has a long and inglorious history of hostility towards newcomers which is not softening as the years pass

It's quite ironic given the percentage of the population which comes from Latin America and Asia


I like the mountains and sea and no state income tax - but the rest of it - the oppressive traffic policing and this dismissive uncaring attitude towards fully legal non- citizens, gives the game way and reveals the Washington State politics for what it is

It's still the wild west with a 'hang em high' truculent mentality and doesn't deserve the money and progress that comes with enlightened attitudes and a welcoming attitude to incoming investment and legally qualified newcomers

Yes, nice State, shame about the attitudes

 

[allserene]

Written to him as follows:


Dear Sir

I write regarding the problem with the ‘Alien Firearm License’ and the interaction between the FBI and the Washington DOL

I believe that the Washington State politicians have given up on trying to solve this impasse and are content to leave it until next year.

Washington State passed legislation for this license originally, and to allow this problem to continue is to allow existing Washington legislation to be frustrated. At it’s worst, it is a furtive reversal of existing legislation by the back door and I don’t think the present situation is fair or justifiable

Washington State has an inglorious history regarding non-citizens in the last century and the State needs to make special efforts to correct it’s reputation in that regard in order to attract inward investment and legally qualified newcomers to add to it’s economy. A ‘dog in the manager attitude’ towards legal incomers does Washington no favors

I am a British National and not qualified for Citizenship until 2 years in November. I am retired and affluent and I am bringing foreign funds into Washington without needing to take a job from anyone.

I think that Washington Politicians are prepared to let this administrative problem fester with no sense of urgency in getting it resolved.

When I do acquire Citizenship, I will remember those parties and representatives who represent an enlightened and modern attitude to incoming capital and those who are tied to the hostile and discriminatory practises of the past.

Washington is a beautiful State and deserves an uplifting and enlightened political environment as well as clean rivers.

The status quo is not acceptable and is causing much resentment amongst the population of fully legal non- citizens and all their friends and business contacts and families.

This problem will not be allowed to languish and will become more and more publicized

 

[cubanitojr]

AFL-WA-Discriminatory legal loophole.

Allserene,

Thanks for your letter to Ross.

I need to think about my next course of action, maybe I consult my attorney, he is a powerful person and personal friend, he'll be delighted to hear about this issue. I have the gut feeling it is somewhat a discriminatory legal loophole, that effectively disarms law abiding WA residents.

The sure thing, I am joining the NRA and WA pro-gun groups. This will entertain my mind for a just cause.

 

[MD_Willington]

Honestly they need to have the County Sheriffs in charge of these licenses, not the WSP. The County Sheriffs already deal with the WA State CPL, it would be a logical step for them to be in charge of any other firearms licenses.

Another angle, the upcoming Winter Olympics in Vancouver BC. Ross could press the issue like my Rep on the grounds that the license nonsense impedes revenues from Tourism/Olympics games etcetera.

allserene, the real rub here is this, in both countries where I'm a citizen, any US tourist or legal immigrant can get a similar license IIRC.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/online-en_ligne/form-assistance/default_e.asp
http://www.met.police.uk/firearms-enquiries/index.htm

Yes, I'm both a Canadian and UK citizen.

 

[allserene]

Md - the sporting thing is a good angle.

Actually, the discrimination hurts more than not having a rifle and when the discrimination is removed, I will be so chuffed that I might forget to go and get a rifle !

I can't think of a first world country that seeks to draw circles round groups of people lawfully living in the country, and then applies different laws to them.

This stuff belongs to the age when Japanese descended people were put in concentration camps in Washington or black people were designated 'non-citizens' and not allowed firearms

It needs to be routed out of modern US society just like lynchings and white only rest rooms in the 1960's

I sniff a huge vulnerability among these elected officials who are looking really bad considering Washington's recent history and I reckon we should jump this FBI problem and get the alien firearms act itself repealed.

 

[MD_Willington]

They were working along those lines, i.e. once you had a Green Card, the license provision would be dropped entirely, since they recognized if you made it that far then chances are you'd be a citizen soon enough.


Well, at midnight tonight, we're one day closer to becoming a US citizen

 

[MD_Willington]

My local guy contacted me, he is going to contact Cathy McMorris Rogers. As I have already done so.

He voted in favor of 2955:

I did vote in support of HB 2955 which passed both the House and Senate unanimously. I'm disappointed it didn't give you better results, that was clearly the intention.

Also:

Keep me posted as the 2009 Legislative Session begins, I'll consider
sponsoring legislation if you need to go that route again.