Observation on Indonesia

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Number 6

Moderator
Choices

"I personally cannot think of any other event in the last century that cost this many lives in one day."

Or affected so many different countries.

Therefore, we can be as charitable as we wish as STILL direct our efforts to those nations where the relief will actually GET to the needy; not feed warlords and their private armies; where the aid will REMAIN labelled correctly as to the country of origin instead of fraudulently repackaged; where the recipients do not bite/bomb/burn/desecrate those who help them; and where rebuilding the country does not aid and abet the occupation and oppression of others.

If that is "unmutual," so be it. :rolleyes:
 
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NSO_w/_SIG

New member
I would not say that the US should not help those poor people who I am sure everyone feels terrible for, but no matter what the US gives, no matter how much aid we provide to these countries or any other past or future countries in need of our aid, the US will never be appreciated and always be criticized. I think the point here was that it pisses people off that the US is always the first to run to help but always some how we get shown in a bad light.

Everyone can agree it was a horrific disaster? Good
Everyone agree these people need help? Good

I don't want to hear these a-holes talk about "the US isn't giving enough" though
 
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justice4all

New member
If individual Americans who can afford to want to donate to the relief effort, I think that's an altogether decent thing to do. I do not support the US government sending taxpayer dollars to foreign countries for any reason. The purpose of government is not charity.
 
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Danindetroit

New member
I personally cannot think of any other event in the last century that cost this many lives in one day.
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1976, an earthquake hit Tangshan china, I believe btw 250,000 to 750,000 dead. the quake lasted btw 15 to 13 seconds, the number was adjusted many times.

I can not afford to send any money, I do fear for aid workers. Most indonesians, are hard working people just like americans, how many does it take to make a bomb? This shouldn't be political, but it is. It is always less than 1% of the people who mess things up. They commit crime, they are corrupt, they make guns look bad. People remember the bad, and the media pounces on it, you never heard of aid workers in afghanistan on CNN until some were taken captive, for supposedly preaching christianity, a death sentence under the Taliban I believe.

This culture thing is a sham, If i need help, I do not ask people if they know what a perogi is. I do not pull my hand away from someone if a religious symbol is displayed by them. I thank them. It seems when 3 or more people gets involved in that simple process, it gets turned political.
 
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Wildcard

Moderator
"I personally cannot think of any other event in the last century that cost this many lives in one day."
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At 3:42 a.m. on July 28, 1976, a magnitude 7.8 earthquake hit the sleeping city of Tangshan, in northeastern China. The very large earthquake, striking an area where it was totally unexpected, obliterated the city of Tangshan and killed over 240,000 people - making it the deadliest earthquake of the twentieth century.
 
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gburner

New member
'The purpose of the govenment is not charity'.

Ya' know...I'm kinda inclined to agree with you on a certain, general level. Seems that we get the shaft year in/year out from a lot of countries that we provide assistance for. The 'oil for food' scam that the UN ran is a perfect example of how governments and their citizens get ripped off and the money finds its way down some rathole or another. But we're not talking about a fleet of bookmobiles for East Crumblestan or thousands of fondue pots for Caucamaucus or a dozen new airports for the Republic of ****vania. This is different.

My friends, this is such a huge tragedy, almost biblical in its scope. We should not expect to see any 'payback' for the assistance that we are giving here and that's not why we do it. We have the ability to give the aid and, I believe, the moral obligation to do so.

We stockpile food, meds, fresh water and other supplies in this country for just such occasions. Your quote reminds me of the British, who let grain rot on the docks in Ireland rather than distrbute it to the starving during the famine. Folks were reduced to eating grass then and the same is occuring now. Would you let another 100,000 die when we, in the form of our governent, have the capacity and ability to prevent it from happening. You're mighty cold if 'yes' is your answer.

The government's job is not charity, but it does have the responsibility to represent the people of this country. Most indications are that we, as a nation, overwhelmingly support the relief effort, both in individual giving and the efforts of our goverment to reduce the suffering and stem the death toll. I don't consider that charity.
 
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bad_dad_brad

New member
We can all debate whether U.S. government tax paying dollars should help with this disaster . . . but:

As an individual with compassion, I can make a donation to the American Red Cross to help in whatever way towards compassion towards my fellow mankind. This individual donation trancends politics and religion.

You can do it easily via Amazon.com.

Perhaps with enough compassion those whom hate America can see that we are a generous people. And if not, so what, for I have helped those less fortunate in need, and that is all that matters.
 
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gudel

New member
As an American, the attitude of "let them die" or "why help, we'll get criticized" is appaling and saddening.
I certainly hope this is only an opinion of a few non compassionate Americans and not a feeling of the majority.

Thanks for asking, my friends and family are fine over there. I will help if any Americans got hit by hurricane or tornado, even if you're in Florida.

Interestingly, not all of them are anti Americans, just as not all of you are compassionate. By the way, some of you are not qualified to talk crap about them, because you have never lived there nor experienced the culture. Hell some of you can't even tell me where it is if I give you a globe!

That's the difference between you and me. :)
 
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wingman

New member
Interestingly, not all of them are anti Americans, just as not all of you are compassionate. By the way, some of you are not qualified to talk crap about them, because you have never lived there nor experienced the culture. Hell some of you can't even tell me where it is if I give you a globe!
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To assume because someone questions how, when, where that money
will be given they are less giving then you is wrong. Americans have
always been the most generous in the world.

I have traveled and seen what happens to most goods/money sent to 3rd
world countries, if the very poor receive 10 cents on the dollar of the
350M sent they would be lucky, now on the other hand if you can send
money direct to friends, family it does help, or if we can go there with
road building equipment, etc and rebuild, great. The sad fact is the 350m
will pass through many greedy hands. I do not believe it is correct for
government to use taxpayer money for this however I am for individuals
donating. Does that make me less generous then you, I don't think so.
 
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johnbt

New member
First it was said that the poor would not get any of the money. Then it was said that the poor will only get 3 cents on the dollar or 10 cents. Lots of opinions out there, aren't there? Not many facts though.

If I give $100 and the poor, sick and dying only get $3 or $10 out of it...well good, they got something, because God knows they don't have squat now.

"I'm terribly sorry that the world isn't really like Sesame Street "

Sorry, never seen Sesame Street. People are dead and dying and we're talking about Sesame Street?

John
 
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MeekAndMild

New member
People are dead and dying and we're talking about Sesame Street?
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You're right John. People are dead and dying and the worldwide death rate remains 100%. One death per person, no crowding in line please.

Email me from Thailand when you get there with your grain shipment. Otherwise try not to be sarcastic if you disagree with my opinions.
 
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Wildcard

Moderator
I am all for helping folks out when needed. But I am scratching my head on this one..... WE have major problems here in the US, hunger, homeless, etc.....So, we can FIND the money to send overseas, but not spend that kind of cash here, to aid our own citizens.


Did any countries help us on 9/11, Hurricane Andrew, the 4 Hurricanes that recently hit Florida? If they did, I have not heard of it.

As I said, I am all for helping others, I have made a donation toward the relief effort as well. But I can also see where people are coming from that dont want to help.
 
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Jamie Young

New member
Does anyone know how much help America gave the Soviets when Chernobyl blew? Did America sit back and watch?

I believe the death toll from Chernobyl was higher than this Tsunami.

How much help did the West give our American hating Soviets? I'd like to know how much we did?

After understanding the scope of the disaster It looks like only Sri Lanka and Indonesia need "outside" help.

The difference between helping the Soviets after Chernobyl and the Indonesians after the Tsunami is?
 
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jerryd

New member
I say take care of our own first, then spread the rest around! Tired of all the other nations putting us down and not backing us up, but the minute the are in trouble they come sobing to us for help, where is the UN maybe Annan can send them some food from his country! I think th United States should kick the U.N. out, what we save in parking tickets and towing fee,s and what ever else the Diplomats get away with, send that for AID.. Sorry but i am just disgusted the way we get treated! :mad:
 
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MeekAndMild

New member
Some people, even some moderators probably don't want to hear this, but I'll say it anyway. If a person were looking for a charity which will actually put the money and goods in place to help people like this they would do better than depending on the Red Cross or the government. In my opinion the one charity which has the best track record for actual amount of direct aid versus administrative costs may well be Catholic Social Services. The particular part of that organization which targets efforts like the tsunami relief effort is Catholic Relief Services. The numbers on their webpage are IMHO a lowball figure as donations have skyrocketed this month. I'd estimate that once they add things up the numbers will go up significantly.
 
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scc

New member
wow. some of these posts are heartless. look, we(usa) are the biggest kids on the block, so we'll always carry a disproportionate amount of responsiblity for the rest of the world, no getting around that. These people are dying. we have to help, it doesn't matter whether their government is on our side, or if they're muslims or not. people should stop buying into this "all muslims hate us for our freedom" crap that bush spits out. btw, that 350 million we're spending wouldn't sting so much if we hadn't spent billions bombing the bejesus out of iraq for israel and the neocons.
 
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Wildcard

Moderator
we(usa) are the biggest kids on the block, so we'll always carry a disproportionate amount of responsiblity for the rest of the world, no getting around that.
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Why does being the biggest on the block make us responsible for the rest of the World? Lets help the victims, but, IMHO, we are not responsible for other countries, nor are we responsible to help out in any way.
 
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NSO_w/_SIG

New member
Just some stats that came from an U.N. offical on CNN............... The U.S. gives 40% of all the money that goes to relief efforts world wide and they give 60% of all the food world wide that goes toward humanitarian relief efforts.
 
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357MagFan

Moderator
The problem is, is that the muslims "yes I am refering to the Muslims as a whole not the so called ....few radicals...." are so untrustworthy and hate us so much that is it really wise to blindly send them massive amounts of money?
It might make us look good in the short term but I believe it will have long term negative effects, our help will shortly be forgotten and the hate will come back, and now they are 2 billion dollars richer... not a good thing.
And Im not condoning what happened Im just reminding you who our enemy is.
Im also a Marine grunt who has served for a total of 18 months in Iraq so I know more about the muslims than the average american.
By the way I voted for Bush and I believe even he is way to soft handed with these people.
 
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