Observation on Indonesia

[Danindetroit]

This is one of the most anti-american/west countries outside the middle-east. It is almost 88% muslim, many fanatical. I believe that there were a few bombings, and a lot of australian tourists were killed.

It seems that we are now going to send aid to these people. I believe it is US tax dollars, and military planes, are going to fly supplies over there. Is this really a good idea? Will we be criticised if we do not send enough aid? If we send too many people, will this be perceived as an occupying force by the extremists. It seems as if we help a country, and in a short time, they hate the US, because some of our soldiers/volunteers, decide to hold their own religous ceremonies, or display jewlery with religous significane. Sometimes these things are death penalty offenses in other cultures. It just seems as the Us is critised for helping, not helping, helping too soon, or too late.

 

[Number 6]

Don't forget

Indonesia's invasion and annexation of East Timor and the subsequent violent suppression of non-Muslim and nationalist East Timorese about 10 years ago. One of the motives for this action was "lebensraum." Like Nazi Germany, Indonesia sought to conquor other nations to secure more land for its own people.

The tsunami may not have been an entirely BAD thing.......

 

[johnbt]

Are you really suggesting that all of the residents should be punished for the actions of their governments and a few crazy radicals?

John

 

[Marko Kloos]

I was wondering how long it would be before the first post remarking that Indonesia is full of Muslims, and therefore a worthy Tsunami target.

I don't care about your religion or theirs...if you can applaud or condone the deaths of tens of thousands of people who did you no harm, then you have shed a large part of your humanity.

 

[wingman]

I don't care about your religion or theirs...if you can applaud or condone the deaths of tens of thousands of people who did you no harm, then you have shed a large part of your humanity.

I don't think the poster was saying that and I think it is always good to access when and where you give money. I believe we all do this with
personal donations through out the year we pick and chose.

I believe I seen Canada had promised only $830,000, France, $135,000,
united states $35 Million.

Compassion is great however in running your household or in running a
country even as rich as we appear to be there must be guidelines.

I hear a lot of talk on the news it would be good to give in order to show
muslim countries how "kind" we are, sorry you can't buy friends this
country has tried that for years and if anything it breeds more hate,
if we give do simply so someone can eat........

I think we all need to understand this country cannot be a provider
for the world I believe as populations increase we will need to pick
and chose who and when we help, sorry if that offends anyone but
it's true.

 

[Baxter]

114,000+ PEOPLE ARE DEAD. Doesn't that say enough?

 

[Number 6]

Clarification

"Are you really suggesting that all of the residents should be punished for the actions of their governments and a few crazy radicals?"

No. I'm saying that:

1. Citizens of a nation are responsible for creating and maintaining their government and, therefore, the actions taken by that government;

2. The nation in question - Indonesia - is a menace to its neighbors generally and East Timor particularly; and

3. An event which reduces the ability of that nation to pose a threat to its neighbors - such as destroying warships, the dockyards and bases that maintain them and the infrastructure that enables the nation to conduct aggressive actions - has, TO THAT EXTENT, benefitted those other nations.

Given the totality and scope of this tsunami's destruction, of course, the benefits are outweighed by the harm to those other affected countries.

No doubt the US will somehow be deemed responsible for its failure to predict the wave, prevent the wave, warn of the wave or rebuild every country harmed by the wave.

 

[wingman]

114,000+ PEOPLE ARE DEAD. Doesn't that say enough?

Yes sir, but it does not make the United States alone responsible.

 

[yorec]

The US is not at all "responsible" for these folks. That's why our help is pure charity. Charity is good no matter your spiritual persuasion so we need to plunge in here with full intent to help! They need it, we have it...

(Besides, ever hear the old adage - you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar?)

 

[wingman]

The US is not at all "responsible" for these folks. That's why our help is pure charity. Charity is good no matter your spiritual persuasion so we need to plunge in here with full intent to help! They need it, we have it...

I agree we need to help however again what point do you stop giving,
can you continue to give until your broke, it is a valid point to discuss
issues like this. While America is wealthy it can be broke, if we fail the
problems through out the world will be much worse.

 

[Ozzieman]

Thank you wingman well put

I also feel that as one of the richest contries in the world we should do what we can for any contry in that much trouble.
What I am sick about is hearing jacka--'s in the UN complaning about how little the US is doing when we are sending in more than the total EU dollars combined and who are the most numerious people there, on vacation!, british and french and they other EU snobs.

 

[Danindetroit]

..

 

[Danindetroit]

Sorry about post #12. I do not think that I posted anything that said that anyone in that country was worthy of death. I just raised some questions. There is no doubt, that al-queda is in indonesia. The fact that we helped in the Gulf War, and have a base in Saudia Arabia, seems to be the main reason this Group hates us.

I just heard on CNN last night a UN rep said america, does not aid the rest of the world enough. He cited the fact that the Government only gives 1/4% of the GDP as aid. Yet 40% of humanitarian aid comes from the US government. That does not count the aid, that comes from private citizens and organizations. I am wondering if maybe France pherhaps, might be able to bring these supplies to some countries. Why is it that the UN, always expects, the US to rebuild countries, and help with disaster relief? Where is Chinia, they are closer to that region. India, and pakistan, have enough cash to build nukes, but not to help their neighbors. I just wondered, do those red crosses on vehicles make it easy to sight in with an RPG. Everytime there is a disaster, america is there, within hours, how many countries helped with the Hurricanes this year in the US. Is it our duty, to be the world's EMT team? Is it our duty to be the World's policemen? The UN seems to think so, but where are they when we get a storm.

Mark can you find anything in MY post that said that it was good that these people died, or that it was a good thing? I think I stated facts, and if I was on an c-130, or other american cargo transport heading into indonesia, the pucker factor would be awfully high.

 

[Doerdie]

I hate to say it, but the "oil for food scandel" has soured me on humanitarian cash to other countries. I am waiting for the first report on how the millions of dollars we sent were diverted to some guys private bank account in France or Norway. I will gladly help with food, not cash.

 

[rkc]

First of all, where are the oil rich Muslim countries like Saudia Arabia?
All they can do is continue to keep their own people in slavery and
give lip service to any religion they profess. Shouldn't they offer aid?
We won't see it happen. The kingdoms could care less about the proles
serfs and slaves.
As for myself, well, this does look a lot like wrath of God type actions.




A few months ago, the Khomeni in Iran said 'We have a mission that could reach Israel' and BAM-- an earthqauke takes 30,000 lives--

It is as plain as the nose on my face.





I am so sorry for the children. Let's hope we dont experience anything like that in America. Because, my friends, no one would be moving to help us. they would be taking the opportunity to chop us up---

 

[Number 6]

Connection?

"A few months ago, the Khomeni in Iran said 'We have a mission [???] that could reach Israel' and BAM-- an earthqauke [sic] takes 30,000 lives--"

Not ONE of which was lost in Israel.

"First of all, where are the oil rich Muslim countries like Saudia Arabia?"

Now THERE'S an excellent question. Any of them - SA, Bahrain, Khuwait - ponying up to provide succor and solace to their brethren?

Oh - before we read more ululations of woe about this tsunami, remember that one of the countries hit was Somalia. Any "save the world" types want to send aid THERE? :barf:

 

[Cal4D4]

And then there's Kofi Anan's ski vacation.....

 

[MeekAndMild]

I was wondering how long it would be before the first post remarking that Indonesia is full of Muslims, and therefore a worthy Tsunami target.

Funny, I'm still waiting for a post to make that remark and haven't seen one yet. Dan's point was that the US is always criticized by certain extremists regardless of her actions. Number 6's point was that the tsunami may conceivably help destabalize the dictatorship there.

Someone who purports to be internationally aware would have to have their head in a pretty deep and dark hole to have escaped hearing about atrocities committed by the Indonesian government and its radical supporters over the past 25 years. You can bet that the poor people whose families have been killed and who are left homeless will never benefit from the foreign aid money.

 

[DAVID NANCARROW]

I for one would like to see US aid continue to the people, and bash the livin fool out of any tin horns who attempt to take food/medicine/shelter away from those in need.

Want to change the minds of the common people who don't know us other than the drivel their government's pass out? I can't think of a better opportunity. And its not just that-its the right thing to do for another human being, IMO.

This can be, and in some quarters, aleady is a political football for them to kick around. Shame on them.

 

[johnbt]

"You can bet that the poor people whose families have been killed and who are left homeless will never benefit from the foreign aid money."

Pure BS.

John