rebs if I remember right was asking about a 223 , by throwing a belted case in the mix doesn't do any good in sizing a 223 . I also have a tendency to stray only when I'm questioned on what I posted about the subject . I'm sure reds has no interest on a belted case headspace completely different animal. By now he made up his mind what to do .
neck size or full length size ?
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Bart-"You can bump the shoulders back without sizing down body diameters with Jones or Redding neck sizing bushing dies."
Didn't realize my Redding neck sizing bushing dies had that capability? Maybe Forster's neck sizing shoulder bump die? Perhaps just didn't realize their full capability?
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Didn't realize my Redding neck sizing bushing dies had that capability? Maybe Forster's neck sizing shoulder bump die? Perhaps just didn't realize their full capability?
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I think a Forster full length sizing die with its neck honed out to .0015" less than a loaded round's neck diameter is the best to use for bottle neck cases. They charge $12 to do that with their dies.
Or with any other good die make you can do yourself with a Flexhone in an electric drill.
Or with any other good die make you can do yourself with a Flexhone in an electric drill.
603Country
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What Bart B says in #28 is what I now do. Since I’m retired and have plenty of spare time, I tried a bunch of case sizing methods. I neck sized, FL sized, used bushing dies, used Collet Dies. I shot a ton of bullets and measured groups. Wore out a lot of new brass. The absolute best groups (my rifle and me shooting) I got were using a Redding Body die to bump the shoulder the desired amount and then using a Lee Collet Die for the neck. But, what I got with FL sizing and bumping the shoulder was arguably as good. Being a simpler process I just use the FL as mentioned.
m&p45acp10+1
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For less time, and work I use the Lee Collet die. I tend to get 5 to 8 firings on brass before needing to full length resize. I have a batch of Hornady cases with 25 firings and the primer pockets are still tight. The rifle is a Savage model 12 FVSS quarter to half MOA groups are easily done with the bipod and a sand sock.
The collet die makes it possible to deprime/size without needing to lube or clean cases. So I can go straight to priming, then charge, and then seat. When doing batches of 100 it saves a few hours of waiting for the tumbler.
The collet die makes it possible to deprime/size without needing to lube or clean cases. So I can go straight to priming, then charge, and then seat. When doing batches of 100 it saves a few hours of waiting for the tumbler.
Are those the largest groups?
603Country
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With the Lee Collet Die, no lube is needed. I have several in various calibers. They work fine, but the brass needs to be FL sized from time to time if you run hot loads. With mild loads a fellow could get a lot of use out of the brass without FL sizing. The Collet Die doesn’t work the brass much.
As for cleaning the brass, I rarely tumble rifle brass. It never touches the ground. I will clean the outside of the neck with steel wool prior to resizing. As for the inside of the necks, I want carbon on it.
As for cleaning the brass, I rarely tumble rifle brass. It never touches the ground. I will clean the outside of the neck with steel wool prior to resizing. As for the inside of the necks, I want carbon on it.
Country
Stopped neck sizing , thats probably why I never tried the Lee Collet die . I started cleaning my brass with the corn and walnut media following the reloading instructions in the beginning . Once I got deeper into reloading I tried different things . I switched to wet tumbling only because I didn't like the build up inside the cases . To me it was like reloading with new brass every time , I do use dry lube in the necks though , I also wipe off the neck and shoulder area with 0000 steel wool , removed the spring on the ejector plunger so my cases sit on the follower , don't have to chase my brass .Works for me
Stopped neck sizing , thats probably why I never tried the Lee Collet die . I started cleaning my brass with the corn and walnut media following the reloading instructions in the beginning . Once I got deeper into reloading I tried different things . I switched to wet tumbling only because I didn't like the build up inside the cases . To me it was like reloading with new brass every time , I do use dry lube in the necks though , I also wipe off the neck and shoulder area with 0000 steel wool , removed the spring on the ejector plunger so my cases sit on the follower , don't have to chase my brass .Works for me
Hanshi
I only full size to .001 , your sizing using the Wheeler method , very accurate method . What I found that works great is the RCBS Competition Shellholders , allows full contact with shellholder and die without oversizing your case , .02 lower deck heights . Worth a look.
Chris
I only full size to .001 , your sizing using the Wheeler method , very accurate method . What I found that works great is the RCBS Competition Shellholders , allows full contact with shellholder and die without oversizing your case , .02 lower deck heights . Worth a look.
Chris
Do you mean Redding competition shell holders that come in .002" steps higher than the .125" standard?
The RCBS one is near one inch high.
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Bart B
No , the Redding Competition Shellholders the deck heights are lower by .002 , as you know the standard shellholder is .125 in deck height , the RCS are .127 to .135 lower each holder is .002 lower.
Best to start with the#10 .135 and work up . As you know., deck is where the shellholder
deck meets the case not where the die meets the shellholder
Chris
No , the Redding Competition Shellholders the deck heights are lower by .002 , as you know the standard shellholder is .125 in deck height , the RCS are .127 to .135 lower each holder is .002 lower.
Best to start with the#10 .135 and work up . As you know., deck is where the shellholder
deck meets the case not where the die meets the shellholder
Chris
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When Redding states The new Redding Competition Shellholders are packaged in five piece sets in .002” increments (+.002”, +.004”. +.006”, +.008” and +.010”)., that tells me the "deck" is the top of the shellholder and each larger (+) amount is further up from the "face" at the holder bottom which is like the bolt face; where the case head is at.
You mentioned RCBS and that translates to Rock Chuck Bullet Swage, another reloading product company than Redding.
87th time I've got confused.
What's the "Wheeler" method? Never heard of it.
You mentioned RCBS and that translates to Rock Chuck Bullet Swage, another reloading product company than Redding.
87th time I've got confused.
What's the "Wheeler" method? Never heard of it.
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Bart B
Now I know your pulling my leg , but I'll play . The Wheeler method for finding the lands is , you use your stripped bolt , chambering a round that is seated long , seating lower down each time and chambering untill there is no resistance on the bolt lift . You can check out some videos on line. Find it hard to believe that you never heard of it . Could it be I helped The Bart B with something , Hope So .
My comp Shellholders I could setup with the standard RCBS Shellholder make full contact from shellholder and die , switch Shellholders to the #10 and the deck hight is .010 lower measuring .135 the deck heights are the only thing that changes.
Chris
Now I know your pulling my leg , but I'll play . The Wheeler method for finding the lands is , you use your stripped bolt , chambering a round that is seated long , seating lower down each time and chambering untill there is no resistance on the bolt lift . You can check out some videos on line. Find it hard to believe that you never heard of it . Could it be I helped The Bart B with something , Hope So .
My comp Shellholders I could setup with the standard RCBS Shellholder make full contact from shellholder and die , switch Shellholders to the #10 and the deck hight is .010 lower measuring .135 the deck heights are the only thing that changes.
Chris
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Thanks for explaining the Wheeler method 'cause I've never heard if it.
You're mixing up RCBS" (Rock Chuck Bullet Swage) with "RCS" (Redding Competition Shellholder).
Same with deck "height," in my mind, when referring to shellholder bottom that increases in depth from the top of the shellholder Redding makes all their shell holder bottom face the same distance above the ram top the holder bottom flat contacts. Competition ones are the same, their top deck surface comes in .002" higher steps above their bottom face case heads contact.
You're mixing up RCBS" (Rock Chuck Bullet Swage) with "RCS" (Redding Competition Shellholder).
Same with deck "height," in my mind, when referring to shellholder bottom that increases in depth from the top of the shellholder Redding makes all their shell holder bottom face the same distance above the ram top the holder bottom flat contacts. Competition ones are the same, their top deck surface comes in .002" higher steps above their bottom face case heads contact.
When I use RCBS I am referring to the company as in The RCBS RockChucker. So going back to the Shellholders the one made by RCBS the Company their standard shell holder deck height is .125 from the top surface of the Shell holder to the deck . Using the Competition Shellholders the deck is lower and raises up .002 , the surface isn't getting any thicker to adjust die contact and lowering the shell holder . I measured from the surface to the deck with a caliper , the deck drops .002 on each shellholder until it lowers to .135 on the #10 shellholder . Die never has to be adjusted , the deck height is increasing the sizing on the case with the die locked in place . I don't no of any other way I can explain it . It works well for me .
Chris
Chris
Ok, but remember the only dimension difference between standard and competition shell holders is the top surface on competition ones is higher in .002" increments from its base where the case head rests and the bottom that rests atop the ram
The top flat on shellholder has been commonly called its "deck" for deck-aids (10 year time increments).
The top flat on shellholder has been commonly called its "deck" for deck-aids (10 year time increments).
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B , if using the standard shellholder and you size a case with full contact then remove the standard shellholder to the comp shellholder #10 and size another case without changing die position the sized case from shoulder to base would be .010 longer . Yes or No , remember nothing is be changed in any way only the shellholder . I look at it that the deck height is a minus not a plus .
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