Magazine Capacity versus Caliber

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Olive Drab

New member
Hansen,
I was in the Army and did a tour in Iraq so yes I am very familiar with stress affecting motor skills, making myself flinch, and affecting my shot placement in a negative way. my creds have been checked on socnet and shadowspear. Also, i was being sarcastic above.
 
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AK103K

New member
all this talk of adrenaline, raised heart right, flight or fight mechanism, elevated stress leves affecting accuracy is hogwash!
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Just curious Olive Drab, did they just take you off the street somewhere, give you an M4 and send you to Iraq, or did you receive some training and idea of what to expect? I know that sounds silly, but the results would probably be pretty dramatic if the former was the case, dont you think?

I think theres a difference between those who have trained to deal with it, at least in some fashion, and have a fair idea of what to expect vs. those who havent.
 
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Olive Drab

New member
first off, why is there no quote button?
anyway, i think my point was missed. your/my accuracy will suffer in a gun fight. The stress/adrenaline/flight or flight/etc the factors affect everyone from the novice all the way up to the SMU operator. The amount those factors affect the shooter is reduced with more stress related training but it is still present. you will not shoot the same size group with your pistol at 10m on a paper target range vs a live threat. My personal accuracy with an m4 was noticeably worse.
 
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David Armstrong

Moderator
im not saying anything bad about a 9mm, i still carry a kahr pm9 on occasion, but there is no denying that a .45 is more effective.
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Actually there is a lot of denying. There are differences, and any of those differences might be the one thing that makes a round more effective in a particular scenario. But any claims as to “more effective” across the board are questionable at best, particularly when one does not know the situation. I tend to fall into the camp with Hansen. I’m concerned about if it is reliable, easy to carry, and easy for me to use. Capacity and caliber are way down on the list of things that matter to me when looking at a CCW gun. Those two factors might become more important in a different situation, such as for LE use, woodsrunning, or so on.
 
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Hansen

New member
Hansen,
I was in the Army and did a tour in Iraq so yes I am very familiar with stress affecting motor skills, making myself flinch, and affecting my shot placement in a negative way. my creds have been checked on socnet and shadowspear. Also, i was being sarcastic above.

OK. Sorry! :):):)
 
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Agios

New member
I think this is a great thread... lot's of good discussion. Let me pose this. You're headed out and your safe has a 13 round 380 pistol, a 9 round or less 9 mm, a 6 round 38 special, a 5 round 357 revolver and a 7 round 45. They are all "compact" and you are proficient with each one. Which one do you take?
 
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David Armstrong

Moderator
Which one do you take?
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Where are you going? How are you dressed? What do you want the gun to do, both primary and secondary? They might all be compact, but there are going to be differences in dimensions and weight. Do those have a bearing on things? Lots of variables.
 
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SIGLOCKAUR

New member
I have both the 229 9mm Sig and the 220. Both have evrything those of us that love Sigs have. Excellent DA/SA (although nowadays you can have it anyway you want it), total;ly reliable, and very accurate. I carry the 229 almost exclusively. Yes their are probably very few situations that require over 9 rounds of high performance 9mm or .45. But if you do need it you need it bad. I'm a firm beliver in it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. In our current state of affairs it is not unusual to have someone on Meth or multiple gangbangers. You are going to have to make lots of holes fast to solve either situations. I lean towards having the extra insurance.
 
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LightningJoe

New member
Neither probably matters. Handguns don't produce incapacitating injuries without serendipitous shot placement. But they stop fights pretty reliably. How? Two mechanisms: Fear and demoralization. If these don't work on your opponent, nothing will stop him from doing whatever he came to do. He might die eventually, but that's later.


But, if I had to pick one, I'd pick capacity.
 
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LightningJoe

New member
an EMR doc and having to go to the murder trials as an expert witness will make you a believer in being a really polite coward...
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k8do:


My fervent hope is that you're not talking about Texas. Maybe NJ?
 
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rezmedic54

New member
Capacity vs Caliber

I have seen a quote that says practice makes perfect. It doesn't practice makes permanent. Most of us here have never been shot at or in a life and death deal so it's very hard to say how you will act. We all hope to act accordingly but will never know for sure. That why I try to find folks that are into Air Soft as it is much closer to shooting a real gun than paint ball. Air soft gives you the opportunity to try some of your real world stuff and see if you survive the encounter most times you are your own worst enemy. The more you practice the better you get. Of all the instructors I have talked to that have real world they have all said pretty much the same thing your mind runs for the hills and your subconscious takes over. They have said the way you practice is the way you will fight so if you go out and stand tall that is what you will do. You need to change up your practices to moving, running, kneeling and almost anything else you can think of. It is kind off like when I was in Paramedic school the most and easiest answer to most questions where nobody read the book so anything is possible out there so you have to think outside the box more then you might like.
 
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easyG

Moderator
They have said the way you practice is the way you will fight so if you go out and stand tall that is what you will do. You need to change up your practices to moving, running, kneeling and almost anything else you can think of.
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While it is fun to shoot airsoft and paintball, and while it's also fun to "run and gun" in combat senarios, most civilian self-defense shootings simple don't happen like that.

From everything I have ever seen, heard, or read, most civilian self-defense shootings occur within about 20' and seldom is there even a single reload.
There's really not much running, kneeling, dodging and such...mostly just really quick point and shoot affairs.
And usually with one-hand-shooting.
 
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biere

New member
For a primary ccw I want something like a glock 36 with I think a 6 round magazine, it has been a few years since I sold mine.

For the 9mm in a similar size firearm I would want more rounds than that.

Basically if someone asked me about a 3 or 4 shot mag fed something or other I would question capacity.

But get to 6 and mag fed and my worries go away for the most part. All remaining worries go towards spare mags and me being able to quickly reload the firearm.

Overall I feel that finding a reliable platform that fits your hands well and points well is the most important thing to do.

I like the 1911 single stacks and eventually went with the 45acp versions because it is easy to find mags in that caliber.

These days I don't worry about if the 45acp round is the best choice, it is an adequate choice in my opinion.

I don't worry about capacity, I worry about making each round hit and working on my skills with the platform I have chosen.

That is just my opinion on this subject these days. There are a lot of things to be working on besides figuring out the best handgun round or capacity count.

Find something that fits.
Get real training.
Practice.

If in training you decide your choice of handgun sucks, start over and use your new knowledge to make a better choice for your needs.
 
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Olive Drab

New member
Overall I feel that finding a reliable platform that fits your hands well and points well is the most important thing to do.

I like the 1911 single stacks and eventually went with the 45acp versions because it is easy to find mags in that caliber.

These days I don't worry about if the 45acp round is the best choice, it is an adequate choice in my opinion.
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i think that sums it up perfectly. what fits the user and what the user is familiar with and trusts is the ideal concealed carry handgun.
 
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AWMP

New member
I'm sure like many on this board and others you will go from 9mm, 40SW to 45acp and back again. There is always a new pistol coming out or a buddy that has one that he swears by (this week).
We carry Sig 228s, great pistols. I love 1911's (had them all and now only have one, Commander Size SW1911pd, great pistol), but I never really got into the .40SW until I had fired a Sig Sauer 229 SAS. I had fired .40SW in almost every brand of pistol except the Sig and now it is my primary carry pistol.
Get what you like, feels good, will practice with and will carry no matter what. Don't get something that you are not really sure about or will only carry part time and as soon as you hit the front door you take it off for relief. Don't worry too much this process of finding the right one will take years, but heck that is the fun of it.
 
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