Let's Close The Gunshow Loophole

[ZeSpectre]

I remember selling AR-15s and standard-capacity magazines to many of those people, at a significant mark up that was a direct result of the law.

Many of them were saying things like "I never thought it would happen!"

Many of them, most who had never even lifted a finger to do anything to make their position known to their legislators, were screaming bloody murder about how "NRA LET ME DOWN!"

Well, what did you do to help yourself? "What? Why should I have done anything? NRA was supposed to do it all!"

Yup. I remember that clearly as well.
Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on ME!

 

[boatmonkey82]

the only thing that concerns me about it is a felon coming to a show and buying said gun with no check . and or mr honest buying a ak that was last used by a cop killer . now i know it would be a pain in the ass but but background checks should be done befroe show entry

 

[Rich Miranda]

Unfortunately, [writing their congressman] seems to be too much trouble for most people.

Agreed.

Over at www.shotgunworld.com another forum member and I challenged all the members to do just that. I even provided a link that will give you your congressman's name and contact information AND provided a sample letter.

The silence was deafening.

 

[maestro pistolero]

I think someone here should help author the legislation.

It should require that all Federally licensed firearm dealers doing business at gun shows be required to conduct transactions the same as if they were conducted at a permanent location, i.e. a gun store. This would eliminate the gun show loophole.

The new bill should further require that any background checks and waiting periods mandated by state and federal law be observed by the licensed dealers, just the same at the gun show as at any other place of business.

Now, quick, let's hurry up and pass it, so we may begin keeping illegal guns off the streets.

By the way, while campaigning to pass the new bill, let's not forget to run a PR campaign that demonizes anyone who refuses to support this life-saving legislation.


We can not get this through fast enough so that we are able to quickly turn our attention to the next piece of important legislation, the new AWB. Ths bill permanently forbids felons, the mentally ill, and users of illegal drugs from owning, acquiring, or having possession of any automatic assault weapon.

Now let's get to work.

Orchid Hunter, are you with us on this?

 

[vranasaurus]

the only thing that concerns me about it is a felon coming to a show and buying said gun with no check . and or mr honest buying a ak that was last used by a cop killer . now i know it would be a pain in the ass but but background checks should be done befroe show entry

That would suck for me because I always get delayed from the NICS. They always call two days later with a proceed.

So under your system I would have to wait for 2 days before being allowed entry.

 

[P5 Guy]

Over Heard at Gunshow

I heard several dealers complaining about all the people walking the rows of tables selling their personal guns was driving the dealers profits down.
This was 1-17-9 at the Lakeland Gunshow just down Interstate 4 from the SHOT show on the same weekend.:barf:

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Over at www.shotgunworld.com another forum member and I challenged all the members to do just that. I even provided a link that will give you your congressman's name and contact information AND provided a sample letter.

The silence was deafening."

Not surprising.

Shotgunners, as a class, and in my experience, are largely antigun.

But, they don't see their shotguns as guns. They're "sporting implements" of such rarity and beauty that no right-thinking congressman would ever come looking to ban them.

They're implements of the GENTLEMEN'S SET.

I can't tell you how many shotgunners I have met who fall into that category.

 

[Wildalaska]

Now mind you I have been to shows where prominently displayed at the table was "Private sale, cash Only, No Background Check". Sort of a drag when you see the same guy with a table full doing that show after show

WildperhapsthattheloopholeAlaska TM

 

[orchidhunter]

When now VP Joe Biden said "There not going to take my Beretta from me" he was speaking of a shotgun, not a handgun. orchidhunter

 

[vranasaurus]

Over at www.shotgunworld.com another forum member and I challenged all the members to do just that. I even provided a link that will give you your congressman's name and contact information AND provided a sample letter.

The silence was deafening."

Not surprising.

Shotgunners, as a class, and in my experience, are largely antigun.

But, they don't see their shotguns as guns. They're "sporting implements" of such rarity and beauty that no right-thinking congressman would ever come looking to ban them.

They're implements of the GENTLEMEN'S SET.

I can't tell you how many shotgunners I have met who fall into that category.

Many hunters see gun ownership as being about hunting. This is why you see politicians of all stripes constantly say things like "I support the right of Americans to own guns for hunting." It reassures the "guns are only for hunting" crowd.

They don't get worked up over any issues involving guns except those that directly affect their hunting implements. They don't see why an AWB is a problem. "Why would anyone need one of those, you can't hunt with it" so they say.

They don't get worked up over issues involving handguns because they don't own any and don't see the need.

They aren't bothered by gun registration. "If you aren't doing anything illegal what's wrong with registration?" they say.

The biggest problem with much of the firearm community is that we are divided. And many of the issues are not important to everyone.

I don't CCW, as I haven't bothered to get a permit, but I still think it is an important issue for gun rights. As long as we push for CCW it's puts the gun control folks on the defensive.

Many in the gun community don't own semi-automatic military wanabe rifles. But those who don't should understand that allowing the government to ban certain types of firearms opens the door to them doing so in the future. Are semi-auto shotguns next? What about semi-auto pistols? Is the type of firearm you own going to be the next target?

The same thing goes for .50 cal rifles. I can't afford one and even if I could afford the rifle the ammunition is expensive. However, if we lose out on this, what gets banned next?

We can't let the argument of "Nobody 'needs those for (insert purpose here), so they should be banned." Using that argument you can ban almost anything in the world.

 

[HiBC]

I sat at a table as a private party with an enfield bbl'd action in .416 Rem.When I sold it,we had to do a background check and yellow sheet at the show.This was in Denver,Co.

I do believe in supporting the local gun shop,but the old tradition of the gun show is also about seeing things that we won't see in a gun shop.I don't go to a gun show to look at new guns.As far as I am concerned,the guys who bring a shop full of new gun inventory can stay home. I can buy or order new guns from my local shop.

I want the treasures the individual brings to the show.An old sight,an action,etc.I like the layouts of parts and individuals selling their Sterlingworth or a used scope.

I am pretty offended by the ffl holders if they want to compromise my Liberty to capture a few more sales.Orchid,if you would post your business name I'll hope you go out of business.

I demand the right to private sale.However,I am not opposed to a level playing field,like a Gun show kiosk for private sales that would perform a background check and yellow sheet as a service.
BTW,I think the criteria on a background approval should be a good faith attempt at compliance.If the authorities cannot provide the results in a timely fashion,the sale should go through.

 

[alloy]

in my trade setting up at a industry show usually requires an insurance rider(for the rented venue), a business liscence, and sometimes a tax resale number. it keeps out the bootleggers without requiring legislation aimed at homeowners and private collectors. like HiBC said...often those guys got the interesting stuff. in other words, if the organizers didnt want to fill the 10x10 booths for a few bux per, those guys wouldnt be there....and it would be a trade show, instead of a swap meet.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

The gun show loop hole does not exist. It is a term used to strike fear into the hearts of people who know nothing about gun laws. Private sales are legal. All FFL holders perform the required back ground checks even at gun shows.

 

[divemedic]

They don't get worked up over issues involving handguns because they don't own any and don't see the need.

Kind of like the people (even on this board) who don't see the need for:

- automatic weapons
- Destructive devices
- armored vehicles
- other weapons

Each person has their own line, depending on what his favorite weapon is. My point is this: If you can trust your neighbor to not kill you by running you over when you go to the mailbox, poisoning you when his wife gives you a batch of cookies, or shooting you with his single shot .22, then why are you worried that he will do so with any other weapon he may have?

The 2A is about weapons to preserve and secure a free state. Any weapon that can be used for that IMO is covered. This means that WMDs, which cannot free a state, but merely destroy it, are pretty much the only weapons that are subject to regulation.

 

[Tennessee Gentleman]

Private sales are legal. All FFL holders perform the required back ground checks even at gun shows.

And there is the rub. Private sales do not require a background check and so a felon or lunatic might use that avenue to illegally obtain a gun. The merit I see in the antis argument is that this is an avenue that should be closed. If all the legislation does is cause all private sales to require background checks and that is made easy to do then I think the antis may win on this one and we in the gun world will find it hard to oppose and win.

Kind of like the people (even on this board) who don't see the need for:

- automatic weapons
- Destructive devices
- armored vehicles
- other weapons

I was wondering when you would get around to that And yeah I am one of them who would not throw out the NFA. But that is off topic so that's it for me.

The 2A is about weapons to preserve and secure a free state.

I think the militia is what the 2A says protects a free state.

 

[ZeSpectre]

And there is the rub. Private sales do not require a background check and so a felon or lunatic might use that avenue to illegally obtain a gun.

I don't consider "someone might do something" a valid reason for enacting blanket policy over the majority who "never did anything wrong".

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It depends how much control of mental health issues you want to give to the government. The VT shooter Cho, clearly disturbed, was not picked up by the system and legally bought his guns. But he had crossed the path of the legal and mental health system so that was a screw up.

However, how do you define lunatic? Give everyone who buys a gun a test regime? Clock ever Rx for an antidepressant or other drug used for psychiatric condition? Ban diabetics from having guns as if not controlled they can act irrationally. A large proportion of the population have taken antidepressants for example.

No current NICS check deals with that and do we want that? Want to ban something - ban alcohol as a tremendous number of firearms crimes are under the influence as compared to the number committed by those with diagnosable mental illness.

If the issue is unchecked private sales - then the gun show is just seen as an easy venue for such. Having mandated NICS for private sales at a show isn't a real big deal but it won't touch the crime rate. A friend of mine sold his Sigma in the parking lot - personally, I wouldn't sell a gun to an unknown. But do we have NICS cops in the parking lot.

The core issue is banning private sales. Do we want to go there? It would only slow down legal private sales - ya think?

About shotguns - my skeet teacher was a hard core CHL type but I see the point for the moneyed classes - class warfare - O/U shotguns to the barricade!

 

[Wildalaska]

I notice how everybody just ignored my post

WildcanthidefromrealityAlaska TM

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Private sales do not require a background check and so a felon or lunatic might use that avenue to illegally obtain a gun. The merit I see in the antis argument is that this is an avenue that should be closed."

Expanding on that "logic," a felon or lunatic might well break into the home of a gunowner and steal a gun, thus obtaining it illegally.

So, logic would follow that the anti argument for banning and confiscation of all privately held guns in this country has merit, and ownership is an avenue that should be closed.

Right?

Congratulations. You're on the slippery slope and gaining speed.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Ken, now don't take it personally

You have a reasonable point about folks who consistently set up table with private sales. Isn't that skirting the law about being a FFL? So is the BATFE the appropriate avenue of complaint?

If an individual has a large collection and does a one-time table - is that a problem? Sometimes I see tables that are mixed - dealer guns and a side section of private guns (sometimes those are weird - like a whole tray of private SW 638oids with black frames and SS cylinders). What's up with that?

I was at a show and saw some guy trying to sell a snubbie SW 66 and being bamboozled by the dealer. If I could have levitated over, it would have been a great private sale.