in your opinion, are guns like the uzi, mac series, and tech 9s pointless these days?

[101combatvet]

I've never fired the Tech 9; I've always classified them as a cheap gangbanger special.

I've fired the UZI and Mac10/11; both have high rates of fire. The Macs, in my opinion, were hard to be accurate with; control took practice, so you walked the hits into the target. The UZI has better accuracy and a slower rate of fire which is more controllable. You aim low on the torso, and the muzzle pulls up and across, cutting the target. Both are excellent weapons for the correct application.

 

[lll Otto lll]

One of the biggest "lies" (or if you feel charitable, "omissions") found in tv and movie gunfire is the lack of realistic consequences of the noise of gunfire, and particularly inside buildings or worse, a car.

Actors without ear protection shooting pistols, rifles and shotguns inside buildings and then behaving with normal hearing and speaking in normal volumes is literally BS. I've had the dubious pleasure of first hand experience. Not fun, and not at ALL like what they show on the screen.

We should ask Alec Baldwin if his hearing was effected when he killed his cinematographer. Wasn't he on his cell phone a minute later?

 

[hammer_jockey_91]

Do you want to face an UZI in close quarters Combat?

that really depends on whos holding the uzi.
if its some wanna be gang banger, yeah. i think id do pretty alright. even with 6 rounds lol

 

[hammer_jockey_91]

We should ask Alec Baldwin if his hearing was effected when he killed his cinematographer. Wasn't he on his cell phone a minute later?

far be it from me to defend baldwin and his ironic turn of events.
but i noticed when shooting without ear protection, one ear takes substantially more of the sound than the other. i lost about 70 percent of hearing in my left ear. my right ear is right as rain. why? my theory is when im holding my rifle, something about the sound traveling in that circular pattern effected mostly just my outside ear.

so translating that to baldwins situation, he probably did lose hearing in his off left ear

 

[44 AMP]

To further "shift the scales" the number of shots and what round is being shot, how close the muzzle is to your ear(s) and the size and make up of the enclosed space.

The gun that "went off" in Baldwin's hands (to date HE refuses to admit HE fired it) was a .45Colt. The movie setting was the old west. While no "official" findings are released yet, I'm certain the round that fired was subsonic.

There was only one shot fired. The reports about the set mention "pews" so I believe the set was a church. Old west frontier town churches tend to be moderate to largish size rooms made of wood. These things make a difference in the amount (and intensity) of the hearing damage.

One large bore subsonic shot in a wooden room, compare that to rapid fire 9mm (or other generally supersonic pistol) or full auto fire from SMGs or AR/AK class weapons in a stairwell, hallway or small room where the walls are brick or concrete, or on board a modern STEEL ship. These things are very frequently simulated by movies and tv.

The number of shots, the intensity of each, and the reflectiveness of the surroundings makes a difference. (but not on the screen, it seems)

I don't doubt Baldwin was on his cell phone "a minute later", I also suspect he was using the phone held to whichever ear was working best at the time, and I expect he was speaking louder than usual.

And, I believe, if asked, he would deny that...

many, many years ago I was once in the back seat of a Mustang when the moron in the passenger seat fired a 357 Magnum out the open window. No warning to the rest of us in the car. It was literally stunning and briefly painful and voices had to be raised to get past the loud ringing of the ears.

I found a different group of people to hang out with, as soon as could get out of the car. people who do that kind of thing are NOT people I want to be around, ever...
I make allowances for young, dumb and seeking excitement, but NOT for doing stupid..stuff with guns, ever.

It was a long time ago, and I was young and dumb, but I knew not to do that, at least. If it happened today, I would probably smack that dumb SOB with my cane...at least ONCE!

 

[Siggy-06]

I wouldn't say no if someone offered me a IWI Uzi Pro.

 

[BubbaBlades]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5mztHvMbkk

UZI Pro is my go to gun for SD and fun. As my above video shows, the gun is accurate. The shooter is usually the weak link.

In my opinion the semi-auto Uzi is NOT pointless these days.

 

[brian33x51]

A real p90 would be superior to these, especially for burst fire if we could get the good ammo. Otherwise a modern pcc does the trick being compact and stable. Stupid nfa makes it a pain for my girls to get the right weapon for them to defend themselves at home.

 

[bill460]

It's a firearm. Therefore it has a use. As to it being a good choice, that is up to the purchaser. They're certainly not, "pointless". The question seems a bit politically based, or perhaps biased.

 

[Black Wolf]

My answer 100% depends - do you mean in their select fire configuration OR do you mean the neutered (looks legit) configuration most folks buy them in?

If you are talking about the semi autos, I've owned em, we were all young once. They are incredibly easy to bump fire. That is their "fun" factor, their "practical" benefit is they have nice capacity and places to mount stuff, which..... yea, so does my G19. So - for fun, yes. Practical? More size an weight for no added advantage.

Now, on the other hand, the REAL (full auto) variants. YES, there is absolutely an advantage. There is a reason so many teams run SMGs - they work. I have a select fire SWD M11/9. By itself, it would just be a "bullet hose", a fun way to turn money into noise BUT I replaced the upper with a Lage Max11, got the "tactical" bolt (750rpm) and put an Ace skeletonized stock on it. Also added an EoTech sight and a vertical fore grip and it is quite a useful little thing. Due to the 6" fixed barrel, it is incredibly accurate (in semi auto, I shoot it at 100yd next to guys with rifles). Up close (25yd and under), it is so easy just to drop 2 or 3 rounds on a target and move on to another.

Downside - the Hughes ammendment (that's what stopped new registration of civilian MGs). It means mine goes up in value constantly and significantly. Having the police seize my $600 AR as evidence (after a shooting) would suck. Having them seize my (oh I dunno probably) $11,000 smg would be heart breaking. It lives in a safe

 

[Rob228]

It means mine goes up in value constantly and significantly. Having the police seize my $600 AR as evidence (after a shooting) would suck. Having them seize my (oh I dunno probably) $11,000 smg would be heart breaking. It lives in a safe

I can't recall who said it, but it always stuck with me. "Don't carry anything you wouldn't want getting kicked across a parking lot by a cop".

 

[Black Wolf]

I can't recall who said it, but it always stuck with me. "Don't carry anything you wouldn't want getting kicked across a parking lot by a cop".

That's awesome! I'm gonna remember that saying

 

[Bill DeShivs]

In my younger days, I sold jewelry. It was common to have quite a bit of expensive merchandise with me, and if you are selling to individuals you have to advertise that fact. After a couple of instances of being followed in my car, I realized I was the perfect target on a lonely road. While I carried a handgun, I wanted something that would be more suitable if someone was attempting to run me off of the road.

I bought an "Enforcer" pistol (M-1 carbine pistol.) I figured 30 rounds of carbine should be about the maximum pistol I could get, at the time. While I am no longer in exactly that business, I still have it. It's fun to shoot. BTW- NEVER shoot a .30 carbine pistol in a car-unless you have to!

 

[TunnelRat]

I can't recall who said it, but it always stuck with me. "Don't carry anything you wouldn't want getting kicked across a parking lot by a cop".

I think that’s a good point.

I would also point out that if you do end up using a firearm in self defense the loss of that firearm may be relatively cheap compared to the legal costs (a lot of this depends on the state) or the emotional and personal toll that goes along with it. I don’t carry expensive pistols these days (at least from my perspective) but when I did I figured if I used them I had bigger issues on my plate than losing them after the fact. Put another way, I spend hundreds to thousands of dollars year after year on insurance that I generally don’t use fully on the off chance something might happen to me. At least with a firearm you get to shoot it too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Drm50]

I’m not going to carry 2nd rate gun for SD. Makes me think why this country is in such a mess. If it saves my life I’ll hold it for cop to kick a field goal with. Reminds me of skit where murders have old guy jacked up in an alley. Old dude has wallet full of money out offering murders $50 to leave him alone. Fear not , if SHF nature cleans out the gene pool.
Having said that we have guys toting very expensive guns for SD. Expensive don’t mean good for the task.

 

[44 AMP]

Although the OP did mention select fire pistols, he put the thread in the semi auto handguns forum, so I would consider the select fire/SMG guns to be off topic.

What I believe he was asking about are the semi auto (only) versions of the Uzi, Mac and Tec 9 guns, which are legally semi auto pistols.

I've had personal experience with the Mac style and the Tec 9 and other than magazine capacity (a dubious advantage) they are inferior to regular handguns in the same calibers.

They are large, heavy, awkward, poorly balanced have generally inferior trigger pulls and sights that are virtually unusable with the gun held at arms length, compared to regular duty class pistols.

That being said, they are not pointless, provided you recognize the enjoyment of shooting them is their point.

 

[rodfac]

Tunnel Rat: "I would also point out that if you do end up using a firearm in self defense the loss of that firearm may be relatively cheap compared to the legal costs (a lot of this depends on the state) or the emotional and personal toll that goes along with it."

Absolutely...and well said. Rod

 

[Hawg]

Any practical use no. Fun to play with yes.

 

[Scorch]

Insights? Just what I picked up in the USMC back in the 80s. SMGs have been dropped from the military's arsenal and replaced with the M-16/M-16A1/M-16A2/M4/etc family of weapons. The primary advantage of the SMG was high rate of fire in assault/CQB situateions, and the M-16/M4 family can handle that at least as well as a SMG. People want to argue about size and how compact an Uzi or Mac 9 or HK MP5 or M3 is, and yes they are more compact but heavy, and not so easy to master, and about worthless at more than 100 yds. Add in ammo supply and parts availability logistics and maintenance in real combat situations, give me the same thing everybody else is carrying.

But hey, they're cool! As long as you don't have to pay for ammo.

 

[TruthTellers]

A couple years ago I had an interest in the vz. 61 Skorpion in .32 ACP, it's along the lines of a Tec 9 or Mac 10 and I thought about what use these semi auto versions of machine pistols had and couldn't think of any other than "it's cool."

It's not the 1980s anymore, we have more than just 1911's, Browning HP's, and Beretta 92's available to us that can use 30 round mags and don't require having to search high and low at gun shows to get said 30 round mags.

I remember watching something about the wrestler who slapped John Stossel after getting fired later turned into a bounty hunter and his preferred gun while working was the Tec-9. I understand at the time that was the gun for maximizing firepower, but compared to what we have today it's terrible.

If they were full auto they might have some use, but I question the validity of a full auto pistol. I can understand something like the Vz 61 for tank crews or the Mac 10 for drivers, but for conceal carry or home defense? Just so many better options that would cost less and work better.