How many more Polymer-framed, Striker-fired Service Pistols do we really want or need?

[FrankenMauser]

I disagree. Unless you are using such a broad definition of "design", that all bolt actions are the same "design", lever actions are the same design, etc. then there absolutely have been "new" designs with exposed hammers, within the last 100 years.

The Browning BLR is the first one that comes to my mind. I'm sure there are others, like the Winchester 9422. I'll grant that they haven't been common, and they LOOK like old designs at a glance, but they are new designs.

Yep.
Some people could (justifiably) argue that we're splitting hairs. ...But I agree.

And I can cite an even newer example: The Marlin 336XLR rifles, specifically those chambered for .338 MX -- introduced just twelve years ago.
Although it looks just like a 336, does use some 'stock' internals, and uses wood that interchanges with standard 336s; it is actually a completely redesigned action, under the skin. (Even diverging from the .308 MX rifles.)
The receiver is milled differently internally. The magazine tube hole location is lower. The magazine is different. The barrel uses a V-thread of its own diameter, rather than the standard Marlin square thread. Most of the internals are unique to the 338 MX model, due to modifications required to handle the increased pressure, the large case diameter, and/or some other factor. The heat-treat is different. And I'm sure I missed more things.

It is, absolutely, still a Marlin 336 on the surface. But it's a new design that's as unique in comparison to a standard 336, as the 9422 is to the Win 94.



There are plenty of others out there, as well.
Right off the top of my head: There are the last of the H&R series of rifles (SB1, SB2, and SB2MAG [10 ga frame]). When H&R 1871 took control, they redesigned the old action designs from scratch, since they were already looking at adding a transfer bar; and introduced the new series around the year 2000, I believe. -They look quite similar to the older versions on the outside, but the receivers and internals are completely different. The internal action parts also operate in a different manner than any previous H&R/NEF shotgun or rifle. None of the internal parts interchange. The stocks don't interchange. And more...
Old concept. Old model line. Looks almost exactly the same. But completely new from the hinge pin, back.



I see the above examples like that of automotive evolution.
A 1970 Corvette and a 2017 Corvette are both the same model, and the heritage of the current model can be seen in the old.
...But they are not the same. Same model. Similar design principles. But totally different.

 

[Fishbed77]

Also the ability to double-strike an apparent dud primer.

There are some striker-fired pistols that have this capability. The Walther P99AS (and its clones and copies) springs immediately to mind.

 

[Ignition Override]

My only handguns are metal-frame Sig P series (P6, P225, 228: all were proofed in Kiel Germany) and two CZ compacts (PO1 and 75 D 'PCR').

I'm a much better shot with a friend's Glock 9mm, but the metal guns look and feel like solid little tanks.


Any possible 'first polymer' handgun for me would probably be an HK 2000 or HK VP9.

 

[GarandTd]

I imagine the materials are going to change before the operating systems. All of my handguns are hammer fired. 2 of them are polymer frames. Only 2 have an exposed hammer. I don't have a striker pistol or a steel frame pistol.

 

[5whiskey]

And more succinct to the OPs question. How many do we need? Well, competition is a good thing. The polymer/striker pistol is the "in" thing now. I personally believe competition brings everyone's game up. Glock has always been a reliable platform, but honestly it HAS become better. I must believe that some of this is related to competition upping the game. The striker platform is honestly not my thing (doesn't mean I don't have one, but it isn't my "go to" platform), but it has a lot going for it. Ease of use, manufacturing efficiency, and many other factors make it an easy design to "win" with. None-the-less, it does not have the same character, style, or elegance of an all-steel revolver or hammer fired semi-auto. Said attributes are, indeed, important to many of us. And we are willing to pay more for it on occasion.

 

[nagami]

1911's and Beretta 92/M9's are going to be around for a long time

 

[armoredman]

CZ started in the polymer pistol business a long time ago with the ill fated CZ-100. While it had many innovations for the day, the DAO trigger was HORRIBLE, and people could get over the weird looks, especially the "one handed cocking mechanism" halfway down the slide. Then they stayed poly-free until the P-07 Duty, which turned out to be a fast paced learning cycle for CZ. The P-10C is my EDC right now, and I think it has much potential in the LEO field as well.
I only need as many as my current quarters can hld, then I will move to larger quarters.

 

[Hal]

Why do we still cling to the notion they are needed with handguns. Having an exposed hammer has no positives and a lot of negatives.

Because..
The trigger of a hammer fired gun just feels better -- to a whole slew of people.....exposed or not...

As much as I really wanted a Glock 30....I just couldn't bring myself to get one.
The S&W .45 Shield's trigger just felt more "right" to me.

Some people could (justifiably) argue that we're splitting hairs. ...But I agree.

Yes---I believe it is hair splitting.
While I love lever action/exposed hammer rifles & nothing beats a "classic" side lock shotgun ( I love my "rabbit ear" SXS Coach gun)..

I'm the first to admit that type of action is just too slow.
Really, really, really good looking - - but - - for a whole lot of uses , way too slow.

 

[moosemike]

None

 

[Skans]

I think it’s inevitable that more of this product & market shift is going to happen, but we might have to buy one to have one of these traditional CZ, Beretta, (and Sig?) pistols before they are discontinued. So what do you all think?

It's good to have a couple of really durable and reliable plastic-framed guns to kick the crap out of and really use. But, when it comes to anything over $500 - mental frame only for me. The good quality metal framed pistols will always be things of beauty, will live on forever, be desirable and over time appreciate.

 

[TunnelRat]

The good quality metal framed pistols will always be things of beauty, will live on forever, be desirable and over time appreciate.

I'd add some caveats to that. The first being a well maintained metal framed pistol will be a thing of beauty. Rust and corrosion are a function with steel, and for aluminum there is the question of durability over an extended round count. Will they outlast an individual? Most likely. Forever? Idk. There have always been the concerns that polymer pistols will just degrade, melt, etc. However, polymers have been a thing with firearms for decades now and have held up quite well (not all plastics are equal). Polymer won't rust, corrode, and durability wise we have Glocks and USPs with 100k + rounds and they're still running fine.

As for desirability, this I always wonder. Similar to cars I think some designs are classics and so ingrained in our culture that they'll never really go out of style. That said there are those that likely will. Eventually you reach a point where the people for whom the nostalgia applies are gone and unless those designs keep seeing use in popular culture or new generations are introduced to them more intimately by friends and relatives then they will become forgotten.

That also factors into appreciation. I watch the Mecum and Barrett-Jackson car auctions a fair amount. I've seen beautiful cars go for prices that are nuts. Again, what I said for desirability factors in here as well. Certain firearms absolutely command a premium and even in my relatively short stint in the firearms world I've seen some prices go to levels that years ago I would have laughed at. But I've also seen used guns that I think are very well priced sit forever in stores and online. Finding the right buyer at the right time is key, and again I do think pop culture plays a role here too. The are classics I constantly look for and others I don't, and while I'm hardly the barometer of what all people like I have seen those same firearms sit for some time because most people that saw them had no idea what they were.

I guess my point is while I get the gist of what you're saying, I'm a bit more cautious in my optimism.

 

[Skans]

However, polymers have been a thing with firearms for decades now and have held up quite well (not all plastics are equal).

The Glock frames have held up well, so far. But, if you remember back to the early '70's, the polymer stocks, grips and forends used on the AR-15 were quite prone to deterioration. Tough to remember now, because we just don't see that junk around anymore. I have a Gwinn Bushmaster Armpistol and I had to replace the grip on that because the plastic was literally flaking off.

Will the Glock frames start to degrade? I don't know. But, I suspect that at some point, they will. While well maintained steel will never degrade. Certainly even moderately maintained stainless steel will last indefinitely.

 

[TunnelRat]

The Glock frames have held up well, so far. But, if you remember back to the early '70's, the polymer stocks, grips and forends used on the AR-15 were quite prone to deterioration. Tough to remember now, because we just don't see that junk around anymore. I have a Gwinn Bushmaster Armpistol and I had to replace the grip on that because the plastic was literally flaking off.

Will the Glock frames start to degrade? I don't know. But, I suspect that at some point, they will. While well maintained steel will never degrade. Certainly even moderately maintained stainless steel will last indefinitely.

Certainly stainless steel is more rust resistant, but once scratched or scuffed the potential for rusting still exists. Again, each material has its own strengths. Heck aluminum is even better in that regard. Again, each material has its own strengths.

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[RickB]

Nobody is ever going to lament that they should have bought a Glock when they had the chance.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Nobody is ever going to lament that they should have bought a Glock when they had the chance.

Unless Glock goes out of business. (Not likely anytime soon.) Some of that lament has to do with wishful thinking -- thinking that the values of the guns will go up.

That said, it's a very rare that you can knowingly buy a gun now that has a value that will go up faster than inflation. The great deals, when you find them, are guns that were sold by people who don't really understand just how valuable the guns were or simply didn't care (i.e., wanted to get rid of the gun).

Given that BHPs have been discontinued, some folks will now rush out trying to get a BHP or FN High Power thinking of long term collectibility. (Others will just go for what they think is a fine weapon.) But there are a number of pretty good older copies available (like he early FEGs, some FMs, and the Israeli Kareen) that will be much less expensive, and I'd argue that the copies could be a good alternative. It's like getting a 1911A1: it doesn't have to be made by Colt... it just has to be one that's true to the design and made (or refined) by someone (or a firm) that knows what they're doing.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Nobody is ever going to lament that they should have bought a Glock when they had the chance.

Unless it was a 1st generation glock 17 or even more rare, a 1st generation glock 19!
You can still find the 17's now and then, but as time goes on they are getting more rare and collectible.

 

[peterg7]

I suspect any gun that resides in a sock drawer will “survive”, as for the users I don’t think the material matters as much as some believe.


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[armoredman]

...if it can survive the corrosive lint...

 

[JDBerg]

I’m seeing the YouTube experts start to come out of the woodwork with Sig P365 striker and trigger bar spring failures and I’m wondering whether it’s worthwhile to be an early adapter for a new model release, when you have a darn good chance of being yet another Sig beta tester to help identify & resolve their QC problems! And you have to pay for this privilege!

Nah, any firearm, especially one intended to ride in a holster, has to have a proven reliability & durability track record before I’m even interested!

 

[Fishbed77]

Will the Glock frames start to degrade? I don't know. But, I suspect that at some point, they will.

And steel frames will deteriorate as well.