HK.....as good as they say? Worth the money?

[AutoPistola]

Gac

Gac, if you have the money and no qualms about dropping it on an excellent pistol, go for it; you won't be dissapointed. No, I am not an HK owner, but it doesn't take one to tell you that HK makes great products. Some people don't think I should have the right to make judgements on an HK unless I've shot it extensively; my judgements are made by look and feel, I can't rent one here.

I am still slightly pissed and dissapointed about the USP.45 (2x4 grip and $800+ in my area), if only because I had such high expectations of it....and it turns out, it feels like a 2x4. Who wants to shoot an uncomfortable gun? The USP was an early plastic pistol, so the grip is (was) forgivable. It's 2007 now, and HK has FAILED to offer any enhancements to the grip of the USP fullsize. No thumb divet, no softer, tackier grip surface, just the same old 2x4. Other companies made worthwhile advances in grip technology, but HK only applied them to the P2000 (and maybe USP compact, not sure). I have a hunch that maybe the USP.45 grip is so long because of the sear/safety arrangement being so far back behind the grip. It is also noticably harder to thumb-cock than my other pistols, due to the hammer pivot being so far back. Needless to say, if I'm going to spend $800+ on a plastic handgun, it better have HK quality AND good ergonomics. $400 and some TLC would get me a sweet-shooting tanfoglio/witness in STEEL, with superb ergos, accuracy, etc. I am totally a fan of the CZ design, especially the ergos.

 

[Retiredatforty]

They don't fit me

I was originally looking at a USP40, as a friend of mine has one, and swears by it. But when I went to hold it at the gun shop, the grip was just too large for my hands. Everyone says they're great guns, but if you can't comfortably hold them, all the German engineering and top-drawer fit and finish don't mean much to you. I've heard lots of folks have the same complaint about H&K, too. The grips are just too large for a lot of folks' hands.

I bought the Beretta PX4 instead, in .40, again because it just fit my hand so well. (And with the money I saved over a USP, I bought a shotgun.)

 

[STAGE 2]

Really? Then how about the link I posted on the first page? For another frame of reference check out Chuck Taylors Glock G17; 400,000+ rounds.....

I'll throw my lot in with a firearms designer and operator who has used both in real world conditions as opposed to the backyard tester with a bucket of sod.

 

[The Body Bagger]

Yeah I guess you're right. I mean just because Chuck Taylor is the founder of American Small Arms Academy, a decorated Vietnam veteran (airborne and Ranger certified), only has written over 500+ articles, received multiple commendations from the U.S. Department Of Justice, Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) & Federal Bureau Of Investigation (FBI), International Association Of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors (IALEFI), U.S. Special Operations Command (USSOCOM), U.S. Army Special Forces, U.S. Navy Special Warfare and dozens of SWAT units and law-enforcement agencies worldwide etc etc etc.......you're probably right, he's just a backyard blaster, and you probably know better than him.

 

[solz56]

The P2000sk is the one Im looking at. Since its a simlified design, how would you say it compares with the USP? Just as good?

The P2000 and P2000SK are great. You can buy one with confidence. In addition to being reliable and solid, my P2000 is the easiest of my 3 pistols to break down and clean for routine maintenance. And the P2000s have a standard accessory rail, not the proprietary rail that is on the USP. So you don't have to buy an adapter to use your rail mounted light.

 

[shield20]

gac,

The LEM version has fewer parts then the DA/SA because it doesn't have a control lever, detente plates and other associated springs & parts (8 or so).

The P2000/sk will also have a better grip & swappable backstraps. I would choose a P2000 over a USP, though BASICALLY very similiar, it is newer and more refined.

 

[buzz_knox]

I'll throw my lot in with a firearms designer and operator who has used both in real world conditions as opposed to the backyard tester with a bucket of sod.

For the record, Mr. Vickers is also credited with playing a major role in the US Assymetrical Warfare Group going to Glock 19s.

And the Glock he tested, if memory serves, was the Glock 21, which he has referred to rather consistently as the worst thing Glock makes.

 

[Ian2005]

Wow, it seems Chuck Taylor is the Jesus of Firearms and Combat Training.

Oh and Buzz, he doesnt like the Glock 21 "becasue he has short fingers" -From his Q&A

Question to him about a Glock 30 or 21 - A: I often carry a Glock 30 for personal defense due to its compactness and the fact that because of it I can grasp the gun with reasonable comfort. Unfortunately, the Glock 21 is so large that this isn't the case, a situation that I've found common with about 19 out of 20 people. Thus, my vote goes to the Model 30. Interestingly, I've also found the M30 to be exceptionally accurate, even to the degree that I've been able to hit clay regularly pigeons at 75 and even 100 meters with it. Such accuracy could come in handy, especially if it's obtained with no sacrifice in functional reliability.

 

[PILMAN]

I'm a USP owner myself, while the Glock won the reliability test, i'm sure every gun is different. Most of your highend handguns should be able to handle a stress test without a problem, afterall whats the chances your going to roll around in baby powder? I paid about 850.00 dollars for my USP which was close to MSRP price (that was after tax) and I am enjoying my gun. I've shot a Glock 21 and while it's not a bad gun, it isn't for me. I'm not a fan of the Glock safety at all (anyone remember that police officer with the glock fortay?). The glock feels really awkward in my hands. The USP however fits my hands perfectly like a glove. I don't believe in loyalty to a brand name however I normally choose what I like, not what others tell me to pick. Everyone says how Glocks and XD's are the way to go, I will pay the extra money if the product is something I like. It's like any quality tv or car, why pick a mercedes over a ford? They both go point a to point b.

 

[killjoy]

HK Value

I bought a USP45c a few years ago NIB. I have never had a handgun of any kind operate as flawlessly and as accurately as this one. I too would like to see them come down in price but when I consider why I purchased it a few hundred dollars isn't important.

 

[STAGE 2]

and you probably know better than him.

Nope. Not by a long shot. But Vickers probably does. Not only does he shoot them, but he also builds em. HK didn't drop a dime to call Chuck when they were designing the HK 45, they called Larry.

 

[OPC]

HKs

"As good as they say?" Yes.
"Worth the money" Yes, I think so.

I currently own two HKs, a USPf and a USPc, both in .45ACP. I have never had any problems with them. They are a joy to shoot, more accurate than I am, and fit even my small hands quite well. I also own a 92FS, have owned a Walther P99, and have shot Glocks in multiple calibers. Still, I like the HKs best. In fact, I have been eyeing a USPf in 9mm quite hard.

Can someone explain to me the thinking that a plastic or composite framed firearm should automatically be less expensive than one with a metal frame?

 

[Bullrock]

My P2000sk is about a year old. I was carrying in a holster that didn't fit and dropped it on pavement at least twice, maybe three times, without a scratch. I now carry it in a holster that fits.

It is the best carry auto I own. I have yet to get a cough or burp from my P2000, or my USP .45. IMHO they are worth the price. HK competes in a free market and I don't see them lowering prices to sell guns, so they must be doin something right.

 

[gac009]

Can someone explain to me the thinking that a plastic or composite framed firearm should automatically be less expensive than one with a metal frame?

People often mistake cost of materials with cost of production.

 

[Striker1]

So Bullrock,

You replaced the beloved PO1?

 

[Willy T]

The Body Bugger,
The post was about an HK P2000SK if I am correct.

To the post,

I bought a P2000SK and absolutely love it. It was mine for about 5 months till my wife discovered its fit on a trip to the range. She now refers to it as her gun. It remains my second favorite shooter next to my SIG 229. If it fits the only decision next is the trigger. Mine...errr hers is in LEM and find it quite pleasant. Good shooting.

 

[Half-Price Assassin]

No. Does HK, make a cool, pistol, yes, but is it worth all that money, heck no. same with $ig, $igs are nice, but not worth $750 (plus tax), and up. for the cost of a beat up, used (west German $ig), i could buy a brand new GLOCK, or Smith&Wesson MP 9mm, or .40sw. this is my story, you will probably think it is too crazy to be true. i have owned four different HKs, P2000, USP9, USP40, USPc9mm. i now have all GLOCKs. do i miss my HKs, sort of, but lets just say i fell victim to all the "no compromise", bullcrap. HKs are nice, but not worth the extra money, if they were under $570 new (after taxes), then yeah i would say they are a good choice. but price aside, no they really dont offer awhole alot more over the rest. the grip is bad, the P2000 is better, parts are really hard to find, mag costs are way over priced. to all the HK fans out there, a spring, and thin hollow piece of average metal (plastic for USP 9, and .40) should not cost $50<, period. they dont make flat magazine bottems anymore (well dont import them). trigger pull sucks, double action pull is waaaaaaaaaaaay too much, and single action is weird (it has two stages, goes back really easy for about .25inch, then comes the non-smooth break. and paying $100 to make the trigger smoothe = ripoff! another true story, i have never had a problem with my GLOCKs, but i have had problems with my HKs (4 rounds not going into the chamber with my USPc 9mm, 2 misfires with my USP9). i have had one fte with my GLOCK 23. IMHO, i would put HK below the GLOCK. if GLOCKs cost $500 for a new one HK should cost $450 for a new one. but thats just me. remember get a gun that fits YOUR HAND BEST!!!!

 

[buzz_knox]

Oh and Buzz, he doesnt like the Glock 21 "becasue he has short fingers" -From his Q&A

I was talking about Larry Vickers.

 

[gac009]

HalfPrice- I appreciate your input but its difficult to read. Why did you buy 4 if you don't like them?

How many rounds do you have through your Glock and how many did you put though your HKs?

 

[Hayley]

"to all the HK fans out there, a spring, and thin hollow piece of average metal (plastic for USP 9, and .40) should not cost $50<, period. they dont make flat magazine bottems anymore (well dont import them)."... Somehow, this doesn't change my mind.