Yosemite Steve
New member
That puts the sights on the side of the barrel. We had it like that and it looked ridiculous. If we are going to make the chamber spec it will be reamed.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
High pressure troubleshoot
- Thread starter Yosemite Steve
- Start date
That puts the sights on the side of the barrel. We had it like that and it looked ridiculous. If we are going to make the chamber spec it will be reamed.
Since you have a front sight on the barrel then you have 2 choices. You get the gunsmith to adjust the chamber with a finish reamer or get the front sight re positioned.
First order of business though for me though would be find new gunsmith. It is not like the 30 - 06 is some rare caliber and even a home gunsmith like me can spin off a Savage barrel and replace it in less than 15 min. Whenever you change a bolt head you ALWAYS have to reset headspace. Even a rank amateur like me knows that
Last edited:
Yosemite Steve
New member
The bolt head needed to be machined to fit the bolt. There is an alignment slot on the old and not on the new. That is what brought me to the shop to begin with.
HiBC has brought up an issue that may or may not have to do with the over pressure problem. And that is that both the old and the new bolt head are not resting evenly on the receiver face. Now I have no way to do anything about it until Monday as the gunsmith is closed for the weekend. I want to get the barrel off and look at the receiver. I wish I had the tools... and the money. I'm broke!
HiBC has brought up an issue that may or may not have to do with the over pressure problem. And that is that both the old and the new bolt head are not resting evenly on the receiver face. Now I have no way to do anything about it until Monday as the gunsmith is closed for the weekend. I want to get the barrel off and look at the receiver. I wish I had the tools... and the money. I'm broke!
Yosemite Steve
New member
I took apart the bolt. The gunsmith is fired. The alignment slot I paid him to machine out was not big enough and the parts were forced together. The bolt head could not float because it was bound up on the alignment pin. Event after I DROVE THE BOLT HEAD PIN OUT OF THE ASSEMBLY i had to DRIVE THE BOLT HEAD OUT OF THE BOLT WITH A DRIFT!
I will do it myself I guess. I have a dremel!
I will do it myself I guess. I have a dremel!
Is this a savage 10 or 12, the bolt heads are t4eh same but just checking to see if this is some older Savage I am not familiar with
what is really strange here is that if the chamber is .007 short you should not be able to close the bolt at all. A no go gage is typically only .003 longer than the go gages. I don't have any field gages but I doubt they are more than .005 longer. If a chamber is .007 short you should not be able to close the bolt at all.
You want to live dangerously I can't stop you but if it were me I would save money and do not shoot that rifle again until a competent gunsmith examines it. 40 - 50 K of pressure a couple of inches from your skull is not something you fix with a dremel
what is really strange here is that if the chamber is .007 short you should not be able to close the bolt at all. A no go gage is typically only .003 longer than the go gages. I don't have any field gages but I doubt they are more than .005 longer. If a chamber is .007 short you should not be able to close the bolt at all.
You want to live dangerously I can't stop you but if it were me I would save money and do not shoot that rifle again until a competent gunsmith examines it. 40 - 50 K of pressure a couple of inches from your skull is not something you fix with a dremel
Last edited:
I don't think the issues I described would have significant effect on pressure.
They may give you symptoms that you interpret as excess pressure.
A hard bolt lift can certainly be excess pressure,dangerous pressure.It usually is. .Its not something to ignore.But bolt lug setback into the receiver can give hard bolt lift,too.
You have a lot of variables going on.
You apparently just removed a bunch of copper and found some pitting.
That could have some effect.
You bought IMR4350 on consignment. Etc.Fake powder can definitely cause pressure.
Don't get me wrong,you COULD have excessive pressure.
But you are chronographing just over 2600 fps with a 180 gr bullet from a 30-06 using IMR4350.
Something is not adding up. This won't sound like much help,but you have to identify the problem to fix it.It might take pulling the barrel.If the receiver shows setback,your short chamber gives your smith a little steel to work with.He can take a skinny cut with a boring bar to true the surface flat.
If you don't have good locking lug engagement,like both lugs bearing at least 50%,you are not getting a valid headspace gauge measurement.If you get the lugs to contact,you MIGHT discover your headspace is fine.
That won't have a significant effect on pressure. It MIGHT have an effect on what you see as pressure SIGNS.
Or you may have bought some milsurp data powder that came out of a grey gallon can that was "repackaged" and put on consignment,and you MIGHT have excess pressure at 2600 fps.
They may give you symptoms that you interpret as excess pressure.
A hard bolt lift can certainly be excess pressure,dangerous pressure.It usually is. .Its not something to ignore.But bolt lug setback into the receiver can give hard bolt lift,too.
You have a lot of variables going on.
You apparently just removed a bunch of copper and found some pitting.
That could have some effect.
You bought IMR4350 on consignment. Etc.Fake powder can definitely cause pressure.
Don't get me wrong,you COULD have excessive pressure.
But you are chronographing just over 2600 fps with a 180 gr bullet from a 30-06 using IMR4350.
Something is not adding up. This won't sound like much help,but you have to identify the problem to fix it.It might take pulling the barrel.If the receiver shows setback,your short chamber gives your smith a little steel to work with.He can take a skinny cut with a boring bar to true the surface flat.
If you don't have good locking lug engagement,like both lugs bearing at least 50%,you are not getting a valid headspace gauge measurement.If you get the lugs to contact,you MIGHT discover your headspace is fine.
That won't have a significant effect on pressure. It MIGHT have an effect on what you see as pressure SIGNS.
Or you may have bought some milsurp data powder that came out of a grey gallon can that was "repackaged" and put on consignment,and you MIGHT have excess pressure at 2600 fps.
Last edited:
It might take pulling the barrel.If the receiver shows setback,your short chamber gives your smith a little steel to work with.He can take a skinny cut with a boring bar to true the surface flat.
Savage 10/12 barrels are secured with a barrel nut with no machining required to adjust head space. A front sight does complicate matters there however
Yosemite Steve
New member
HiBC, I just finished doing the job the gunsmith should have done with the alignment slot. Now the marker wears almost entirely off of both sides of the lug. The bolt head was bound up on the alignment pin. Now that part is all better. I suppose I could put the chamfers on too... when using a dental tool to feel the surface of the receiver I can feel no recession or lip or even a hint of it. My next item is to try a proven load from my gun with a proven powder and see what difference there is in velocity.
As much as I would like the gunsmith to make this right, my confidence in him is low at this point and I have no money to see a new one until Spring.
As much as I would like the gunsmith to make this right, my confidence in him is low at this point and I have no money to see a new one until Spring.
reynolds357
New member
Just because the head floats does not mean the lugs on the bolt do not need to be lapped. Lap it for 100% contact. There is a chance it will take headspace out of spec.
Yosemite Steve
New member
Savage 10/12 barrels are secured with a barrel nut with no machining required to adjust head space. A front sight does complicate matters there however
Gunsmith did say he would ream it if I want free of charge, but seeing what he did on the bolt head slot shot any remaining confidence I had in him out the window.
Gunsmith did say he would ream it if I want free of charge, but seeing what he did on the bolt head slot shot any remaining confidence I had in him out the window.
checking and setting headspace is always done when replacing a bolt head, not something considered afterward
what slot are you referring to?
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Savage-Bolt-Head-308-SA-RH/T27333
your story is making less and less sense, no way you could even close the bolt if the chamber is .007 short
Yosemite Steve
New member
Just because the head floats does not mean the lugs on the bolt do not need to be lapped. Lap it for 100% contact. There is a chance it will take headspace out of spec.
https://gundigest.com/how-to/gunsmithing/gunsmithing-lapping-lugs
Thanks,Houndog. I understand that.The OP and I have been over all of this over another thread.Early on I suggested exactly what you just said. The OP did not like the sight being out of line.We have suggested the chamber reamer.UncleNick suggested a pull through.
I asked the OP why the bolt head was changed.He said concave bolt face.If the bolt face is concave,I wonder how flat is the locking surface inside the receiver.Lug setback is not unheard of.I,ve worked with old Mausers.
I suggested marker ink check on the locking lugs.OP says its not so good.I asked about corner conditions.OP says the old bolt head had a 1/16 edge chamfer on the locking lug.IF there is setback,that is the form.The new bolt head has sharp corners. HMMMM.What happens when a sharp outside corner tries to fit inside a chamfered inside corner? Interference.Might that interference hold the locking surfaces apart?Might it cause hard bolt lift? Might it make for a mushy lockup that would let a primer back up??Maybe.
Or that consignment IMR4350 might really be H-4895 in an IMR4350bottle..He might really have high pressure.
SO,OK,you can spin a reamer in there with a tap wrench.Deepen the chamber!
What if there is still hard bolt lift? What if the primers still flatten?What if there IS setback? Deepening the chamber won't fix it.So NOW we pull the barrel and true the receiver....and ,if the sights are straight up,excessive headspace,right?
I'm thinking verifying the locking lug engagement is foundation step one,if that's OK.
Hopefully that catches you up a bit. Thanks again!
I asked the OP why the bolt head was changed.He said concave bolt face.If the bolt face is concave,I wonder how flat is the locking surface inside the receiver.Lug setback is not unheard of.I,ve worked with old Mausers.
I suggested marker ink check on the locking lugs.OP says its not so good.I asked about corner conditions.OP says the old bolt head had a 1/16 edge chamfer on the locking lug.IF there is setback,that is the form.The new bolt head has sharp corners. HMMMM.What happens when a sharp outside corner tries to fit inside a chamfered inside corner? Interference.Might that interference hold the locking surfaces apart?Might it cause hard bolt lift? Might it make for a mushy lockup that would let a primer back up??Maybe.
Or that consignment IMR4350 might really be H-4895 in an IMR4350bottle..He might really have high pressure.
SO,OK,you can spin a reamer in there with a tap wrench.Deepen the chamber!
What if there is still hard bolt lift? What if the primers still flatten?What if there IS setback? Deepening the chamber won't fix it.So NOW we pull the barrel and true the receiver....and ,if the sights are straight up,excessive headspace,right?
I'm thinking verifying the locking lug engagement is foundation step one,if that's OK.
Hopefully that catches you up a bit. Thanks again!
Last edited:
UncleNick correct me if I am wrong here but isn't a short chamber referencing a barrel that has not been completely machined ?
Some reloaders are wound 'sort' tight, others, like me, just do not get excited. I have long chambers, I have a few long chambers I did not cut but can be traced to EK stamped rifles. I have rifles with short chambers, the chambers are considered short because the length of the chamber from the datum/shoulder to the bolt face is shorter than a go-gage length chamber 'and' there is the short chamber. The short chamber is shorter than a go gage length chamber, I have a short chamber that is as short as a minimum length/full length sized case. I want to know the length of the chamber from the datum to the bolt face in thousandths. The length of the chamber could be anything from .010" shorter than a minimum length/full length sized case to .016" longer than a minimum length/full length sized case.
With no discipline the reloader insist the case has head space, not me, I off set the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face with the length of the case.
Back to the bucket of bolts: A cute saying; order a bucket of bolts to increase the chance of finding a bolt that fits. A smith should be able to remove a bolt, measure its ability to off set the length of the chamber and compare that bolt with another bolts.
A builder of period correct 03 and 0.A3 etc., built a Rock Island 03. (again) he had 20+ go gages, he knew he had a chamber that was between go-gage and no go-gage length but could not figure how to reduce the length of the chamber to go-gaged, I demonstrated 3 different ways/methods/techniques he could use to determine the length of the chamber in thousandths. He had 100 + 03 bolts and I had 35, I offered to measure all of them in an attempt to solve his problem, I offered to sized cases that would give him the clearance he wanted.
He has the only hydraulic/powered/operated press I know of, he found a resource type person named John sent him a few straight handles bolts and from that bucket? he was able to put the rifle together?
F. Guffey
no way you could even close the bolt if the chamber is .007 short
I purchased a barrel from Midway, they claimed it was a short chamber, I ask, "How short?" The barrel was .250" short and I asked: "How many chambers will the reamer cut at .250" each?"
And then there is the other problem; finding someone that can measure the length of a short chamber, .007" would be .002" shorter than a minimum length/full length size case.
F. Guffey
Yosemite Steve
New member
what slot are you referring to?
See picture. The old bolt head is on the left.
The gunsmith did not ream the new bolt head enough and had to force the part together. The strain was enough to only allow one lug to make contact. I reamed it out more allowing for play on all sides and not the lugs are both wiping 85-90% of the marker of and match the wear on the old bolt head. I trusted his advice to try shooting a shorter chamber for accuracy and brass life but now I don't know. Why would he say that if he had some other motive. It appears that he either didn't know or didn't care that the floating bolt head needs to float.
Guffey:Springfields have turn down bolts. Puzzling,but not useful.
Well done,Yosemite!! Think about this: Sloppy gunsmith,exactly what you found! You were not getting lug contact,and yes,the bolt head needed to float to sit down flat. You had mushy air between your bolt lugs and the receiver.
Your eyes and your mind are working.Keep at it.
Well done,Yosemite!! Think about this: Sloppy gunsmith,exactly what you found! You were not getting lug contact,and yes,the bolt head needed to float to sit down flat. You had mushy air between your bolt lugs and the receiver.
Your eyes and your mind are working.Keep at it.
Last edited:
I still have no idea of what "slot" the OP is referring to on a savage bolt head and I have serious doubts he would be able to close the bolt an any chamber that is .007 short. There may be gunsmiths out there that would not know that when replacing a bolt head on a Savage it requires resetting the head space but I don't know how they stay in business. However I do know that unless the smith or owner checks to make sure that barrel is correctly head spaced it should not be shot
with that said I am out of this thread
with that said I am out of this thread
It appears that he either didn't know or didn't care that the floating bolt head needs to float.
"Boats float"
I suggest measuring before and again after, I do not care what the smith/reloader is measuring. If he does not share my philosophy there is a chance the bolt face replacement did not reduce the length of the chamber, I know; that is confusing to most but if he measured the part he removed and compared it with the new replacement and found the new replacement was shorter there should have been a reduction in the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face.
F. Guffey