Got Surprised by a Bear this Weekend, Rethinking Carry Options

mountainclmbr

New member
On Sunday afternoon I had been outside cutting and splitting firewood and came inside for a rest. I was carrying my summer carry gun, Kahr MK40 in pocket holster and loaded with Doubletap 180gr Gold Dot HP's. Then I remembered I needed to water some potted plants I had put outside for the summer. I walked out the front door and went to where the water faucet and hose are located off to the side of the front walkway. Our Saint Bernard insists on following me everywhere and this was no different. Suddenly she was barking and was running up the walkway toward the street and right across the street there was a cinnamon-colored black bear that looked very healthy and about 200lbs. Initially the bear stood his ground, but I was able to call the dog back and get her inside the house. Then the bear slowly ran across my neighbor's back porch and into the forest so no confrontation this time. A bear tried to break into the house one time when I was not home so this is not an imagined threat where I live. One fall I heard that there had been over 100 bear home break-ins in the foothills West of Denver.

This got me thinking about my choice for carry gun. It is hard to carry anything too large when working in the yard in summer, but .40 cal is less than optimum for bears (as most handguns are). I have the Doubletap 200gr Wide Flatnose Hard Cast loads, but they don't feed well in the Kahr. The nose on these won't clear the ejection opening in the slide so you have to take the magazine out to unload or if you needed to clear a misfeed. They also need an extra push on the slide to get them to chamber. I had planned on keeping the HP in the chamber all the time, but swapping magazines with HP for trips to the city and the Hard Cast for around the house where bears or mountain lions are bigger threats.

Opinions? Should I change to a magazine of FMJ for the bear loading? In smaller guns I also have a Charter Arms 44spl that I could handload Keith style bullets in. I have a 10mm 6-inch longslide that is probably too big to wear while working in the yard, too difficult to conceal and too easy to scratch while working too. I also have a Dan Wesson 44 mag with 6-inch bbl that is probably not good for the same three reasons. I could probably find a way to carry a 3.5 inch bbl 45ACP, but it probably lacks penetration too. I had considered getting one of the light-weight 44 mag snubbies for this purpose, like the Mountain Guns, especially since they seem to have been named after me.
 

azredhawk44

Moderator
A 200 pound bear? Tiny guy.

A .40 in the head or CNS will do the trick for that... and if it isn't in the head, then even a .44 mag won't do much better to stop him immediately.

If you really want to carry something bigger, I think the 44sp charter is a good choice with some 240gr LSWC fodder.
 

mountainclmbr

New member
There seems to be an increase in attacks. Here is one story that covers two attacks:

http://cbs4denver.com/local/aspen.bear.attack.2.562753.html

by Andrea Lopez
ASPEN, Colo. (CBS4/AP) ― The Colorado Division of Wildlife said a bear attacked a woman inside her Aspen condo, but her injuries are not life-threatening.

Division of Wildlife spokesman Randy Hampton said the woman was awakened by a noise in the kitchen area at about 1:30 a.m. Wednesday. When she went to investigate, the bear struck her in the face, injuring her with its claws.

Hampton said the bear entered through a sliding glass door that was closed but not locked.

The woman was taken to a hospital. Wildlife officials have not released her name or details of her injuries.

Wildlife officers have placed traps for the bear in case it returns. Hampton said the bear will be killed if captured because of its aggressive behavior.

It was the second attack on a human in the past week. A man is Snowmass was attacked in his garage last week. Now is the time of year when bears storing up calories for the winter.

Here is state wide data for last year, 45 bears killed by DOW and all the data was not in yet.

http://cbs4denver.com/local/aspen.colorado.roaring.2.562637.html

DENVER (AP) ― Thanks to a late freeze and drought that damaged berries and acorns, bears rummaging for food among people kept wildlife officers busy, especially in west-central Colorado, where a total of 23 bears were killed and 52 were relocated.

Statewide, an estimated 45 bears were killed after run-ins with people. State Division of Wildlife spokesman Tyler Baskfield said a definite number won't be known until all the district managers' reports are completed.
 
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kamerer

New member
Mountainclmbr, I can recommend the shorter-barreled S&Ws. They are well built guns. I don't fear when I'm near home, but we do spend a few weeks a year in serious bear country near the Can. border, so this is a something I've looked into. For the reasons you mentioned clearly - ammo reliability and variety, I went with a revolver for this need, too. I do like the S&W guns, but I DON'T recommend the lightweight ones, with the alloys, etc. Shooting full-house magnums in those is like getting hit in the hands with a really solid baseball bat swing. I like the all-steel ones like the 29 and 629. In a cross-draw, pancake, or shoulder holster, you can pretty much forget you are carrying one at times.

The "mountain gun" ones are generally not "snubbies" - they are full-size 4" guns with a tapered barrel instead of a heavy lugged one to make them easier to carry. I didn't see a big advantage in that over the regular model 29, so I went with the 3" and the round butt - an older one from the 80s.

Bud's gun shop recently had the 3" model 29 "Bounty Hunter" for $575 delivered, which seemed a really good deal on a new one, has a lock but also has a lifetime warranty.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/31/products_id/43753

The 3" S&W 44mags are very "packable" as I mentioned. There are older stainless and blue models going back to the mid-80s if you want to check the used market, too.
 

mountainclmbr

New member
kamerer,
OK, the Bounty Hunter or the Trail Boss are exactly what I was thinking about. I know the Trail Boss is available in stainless. Will have to research the Bounty Hunter. Thanks
 

Cerick

New member
Look at the 629 carry comp in the S&W performance center. Good looking gun that probably shoots well too. Short, but the comp helps tame the magnum loads. P.S. I wouldn't want to shoot a bear with anything less than a 44 mag. my 2cents
 

Dwight55

New member
And unless you are willing to seriously punish your hands, wrists, and forearms, . . . stay away from the super boomers such as the .454 Casul.

A friend has an Alaskan in .454, . . . and I really think he will become lunch for brer bear if he does not get the brain shot on with the first round. The recovery time from that load (and other super boomers) is far greater than the .41 mag, .357 mag, or .44 mag, . . . and at least for black bears, . . . the regular magnums are quite adequate for the task.

May God bless,
Dwight
 

jrothWA

New member
Talked with Sierra TEchs...

regarding loads for a .45ACP.

They indicated that my two boxes of Hornady 230gr FMJ-FP would adequate as long as placement was there.
Also indicated that regular FMJ would good.
May want to talk with them???
 

B.N.Real

New member
Buy a four inch barrel and shroud for your Dan Wesson.

No underlug for less weight.

Stoke it with some powerhouse rounds,you'll be ready when it comes back.

If you have bears,you might also have mountain lions(cougars),them,when they are hungry are nothing to mess with (just like bears).
 

mountainclmbr

New member
My Dan Wesson 44 mag was the very first handgun I ever bought back in 1982. I would never wear it banging around working in the yard thus the search for something else. A used Dan Wesson with 4-inch bbl is an idea though, or anything else with less sentimental value. Also looking at 41 mag as I also have a larger gun in this caliber.

Yes there are also mountain lions here too. Pretty creepy having one shriek right outside your open bedroom window in the middle of the night. I have a Mossy 500 with the first few rounds Brenneke slugs and then 3-inch 00-buck to take care of threats when I am inside the house. Outside is the issue.

Here is something that happened just south of me yesterday morning. Maybe 20 miles south...

http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_10098036

A mountain lion slunk into the master bedroom of an Idledale home early Monday, snatched a yellow Labrador retriever and vanished.

Officers are hunting the mountain lion and have set a trap, said Jennifer Churchill, a spokeswoman for the Colorado Division of Wildlife.

"A lion that will brazenly go into someone's bedroom . . . we need to be careful of," Churchill said.

The dog's body was found near the property.

Churchill said the residents had left open the French doors to their bedroom, apparently to cool the house, and didn't have screens.

There were dogs sleeping in the bedroom when the mountain lion entered between 4 and 4:30 a.m.

Idledale, between Morrison and Evergreen along Bear Creek, "is definitely in lion country," Churchill said. "It's not unheard of for unattended or easy-to-get-to pets to be taken by mountain lions in areas from Boulder to Evergreen."
 

B.N.Real

New member
Mountain lions have also attacked bicycle riders and small children as well.

Usually they will retreat but these cases in involved extremely hungry animals.

Wild animals are to be respected in all cases.

They can close on you much faster than any human being.
 

Stevie-Ray

New member
A 200 pound bear? Tiny guy.
Yup, and cinnamon-colored also, so it's probably pretty much still a cub. I'd use that Longslide 10mm with maybe PMC 200gr TCFMJ in a Yaqui slide while working in the yard, especially if I expected visits from junior's mom.

Scratches add character, but I understand your concern. I'd hate to scratch my Delta Elite, also.
 

mountainclmbr

New member
Yes. I am pretty familiar with the "little guys". Last year there was noise outside at night that my wife heard...padump...padump... I was looking around and while looking out of about a 4X4 ft window onto the back deck there was a "whack" on the window and the glass did not break, but flexed and hit me in the head. My wife turned on the inside lights and there was a small, 100lb class black bear that had been trying to reach a bird feeder high under the eaves of the house. I ran and got the Mossy and then let the dogs out onto the deck. They chased the bear until it jumped off, about 15 ft off the ground, into a pine tree and climbed down head first. The next morning I could see my forehead and nose print on the inside of the window and the muddy paw print on the outside. The paw print went from my left eye and downward diagonally across my nose. Lucky it was a small bear and strong window.
 

HKFan9

New member
I saw a show on TV the other night that said more people get attacked by deer in the woods more so than bears or mountain lions...... never under estimate Bambi....:rolleyes:
 

HiBC

New member
Had a problem with a black bear in AK,he bit my former spouse.We were 200 miles from the nearest road and could not afford more injuries so I killed him.He was big,6'6" nose to tail.
I had a 12 gauge with slugs,and had to use what was available at the store,so standard soft slug.
No sights,just a bead.First clipped his lower middle teeth(was pointing at his nose).He went down and got back up shaking his head.Second round broke neck and stopped.Both slugs broke into lead cornflakes.
My point,you want something with penetration.For me,that means your .44 with hard heavy bullets.

Had occasion to read "Bear Tales" by Kanut after that.One story was typed by a woman holding a pencil between her teeth.She lost both her arms to a 160 lb female black bear.
You may not need a .454 but I would take them serious.
 

mountainclmbr

New member
Here we have mule deer, elk and moose.
personal attacks are rare, but vehicle collisions are common. I cannot count the close collisions in a vehicle I was driving . Several very close calls every year with deer and elk, but never hit one in over 10 years! I have even had deer jump across the road right beside me and barely miss the back bumper.
 
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