Don Fischer
New member
Never fooled with one but I suspect what you want is either a 30-378 Weatherby or a 50 BMG!
By the way, what is a 6.5 RM?
By the way, what is a 6.5 RM?
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flattest shooting 500 yard deer rifle cartridge
- Thread starter Deaf Smith
- Start date
603Country
New member
I have a buddy that hunts with a 30-378 Wby. He uses a Nosler 125 gr BT and his MV is about 3800 fps or so. That puts him right with my 220 Swift with a 55 gr bullet, which when sighted in at 200 yards, drops about 5 inches at 300, 15 inches at 400, and around 35 or a bit more at 500. That’s about as flat shooting as anything I know of.
For shooting at 500 yards a plain old 270 will push a 110 gr Accubond at 3500 fps, which is right there with the 257 Wby and a 110 gr bullet. Get something like that and a really good turreted scope and do some serious practicing, and I hope you read wind better than I do. And you will need a rangefinder, and a pretty good one. My Nikon 600 is good to 400 yards max on pigs, deer, and coyotes. That’s all it’ll do, even on a good day, though I could range a truck to 800 yards or more.
I did shoot a hog at 490 yards with my 260, on a no wind day. Used a Nosler BT of 100 grains, at about 3000 fps. Lucky for me that the hog was standing in front of something I could range.
For shooting at 500 yards a plain old 270 will push a 110 gr Accubond at 3500 fps, which is right there with the 257 Wby and a 110 gr bullet. Get something like that and a really good turreted scope and do some serious practicing, and I hope you read wind better than I do. And you will need a rangefinder, and a pretty good one. My Nikon 600 is good to 400 yards max on pigs, deer, and coyotes. That’s all it’ll do, even on a good day, though I could range a truck to 800 yards or more.
I did shoot a hog at 490 yards with my 260, on a no wind day. Used a Nosler BT of 100 grains, at about 3000 fps. Lucky for me that the hog was standing in front of something I could range.
std7mag,
As another posted correctly indicated, wind is but one variable that would make a shot beyond 400 yards very risky, especially at Rocky Mountain altitude.
If you're confident of shooting at 500 yards, I'm good. As for me, I want to be confident that my shot will cause quick, humane death. I want to walk up to dead big game.
You're right: coyotes don't count. They're scavengers that kill fawns.
As another posted correctly indicated, wind is but one variable that would make a shot beyond 400 yards very risky, especially at Rocky Mountain altitude.
If you're confident of shooting at 500 yards, I'm good. As for me, I want to be confident that my shot will cause quick, humane death. I want to walk up to dead big game.
You're right: coyotes don't count. They're scavengers that kill fawns.
Pathfinder45
New member
Since the intended target was listed as deer, I think the hunter should try to get closer. As far as long range hunting calibers go, there have been endless attempts over several decades to improve on the 270 Winchester. While some modest gains have been demonstrated by more powerful magnum calibers, there have been utterly no gains achieved without substantial compromises. But apparently, we have learned something out of all this, as the current trend is to emulate the long range performance of the 270 with cartridges that are milder at the muzzle. Thus, it would seem, is that the best of the old-school attempts is probably the 7mm Remington magnum; while the current best candidate is the 6.5mm Creedmoor. Pick a reasonable cartridge without losing sleep over it, and devote more time to physical conditioning and sharpening your outdoor skills. I like the 270 Winchester and consider it to be among the very best; but I am honestly having more fun with tang sights on an old 30 WCF. Of course, 500 yards is completely out of the question with that rig, but in the woods, you will never even see that far.
If you're a Smith then changing out barrels isn't as big deal...
6.5-300 weatherby will get a 140gr vld to 500 yard with a little over 20 inches of drop at 500 and hit with more energy than a .30-30 at point blank, still moving around 2500fps. It'll probably eat barrels, but for the hunter that wants flat trajectory over anything else, that's the person they had in mind for it.
http://www.weatherby.com/6-5-300-wby-mag.html
6.5-300 weatherby will get a 140gr vld to 500 yard with a little over 20 inches of drop at 500 and hit with more energy than a .30-30 at point blank, still moving around 2500fps. It'll probably eat barrels, but for the hunter that wants flat trajectory over anything else, that's the person they had in mind for it.
http://www.weatherby.com/6-5-300-wby-mag.html
Deaf Smith said:OK, looking for a rifle/cartridge that drops the lest at 500 yards.
So far I've check 25-06, 6.5mm RM, 270 WSM, 7mm WSM, 7mm Magnum, .300 WM, .300 WSM.
And so far the least drop seems to be 7mm WSM with 140 gr bullets (35 or so inches.) But there are few rifles now made in 7mm WSM!
Any other rounds that drop less?
I think you're approaching this flattest shooting 500 yard cartridge all wrong. My guess is you're sitting behind the computer and looking at individual web sites and their ammunition specifications, let me know if I'm wrong? If that is what you're doing realize what is posted on a manufacturers web site isn't always what you'll get in the real world.
I think you need to get on a ballistics web site like JBM and start plugging in numbers based on "Maximum Point Blank Zero" or MPBZ, if you do this you'll significantly flatten the trajectory of most cartridges. I like to zero a hunting rifle for a target of 6" as this gives me a better margin of error since most of what I hunt has a 10" vital zone or larger. You can actually set your target to whatever size you want, and that'll change your trajectory.
Take for example the .25-06 one of the cartridges you mentioned, lets say it shoots a 115 grain Nosler BT at 3000 fps. If you zero for MPBZ on a 6" target at 252 yards, you have a 295 yard range before the bullet drops 3" below line of sight. That means you have only 31" of drop at 500 yards.
An MPBZ depending on 130 grain bullet out of a .270 Win on a 6" target will get you to 29" at 500 yards. .270 WSM with the same 130 grain bullet will drop 23" at 500 with a MPBZ. Your 7mm WSM will get you to 22" of drop at 500 yards with a MPBZ on a 6" target and the .26 Nosler with 140 grain bullet will drop 19" at 500 yards.
I think if you do this it might change your outlook and what is important to you. You're looking at only 10" difference between the .26 Nosler and the .270 Win. Is it worth the extra cost to save a few inches on trajectory to go with a less common cartridge?
7mm Reminton Mag for me
It would be hard to beat a 140gr Sierra BT at 3200 or a 154 Interbond at 3000 in a 26" barrel. You'll have to go with the large case, burning 20-30 grains more powder and a lot more recoil for 200-300 fps.My personal choice is 7mm mag. Not the best but a great balance of drop, drift and manageable recoil
There is no deer cartridge that is suitable at 500. All of 'em drop like bricks between 300 and 400. However, it's not the drop that matters. It's the remaining energy. None of 'em have enough. And the shooter's ability to hit the fabled 9" pie plate, every time, at that distance.
Reticles and turrets have nothing to do with it.
A .220 Swift with a 60 grain bullet, drops 30.9" at 500, but only has 586 ft-lbs of remaining energy.
Reticles and turrets have nothing to do with it.
A .220 Swift with a 60 grain bullet, drops 30.9" at 500, but only has 586 ft-lbs of remaining energy.
CalmerThanYou
New member
Get closer, you will feel better about your chances of a clean kill.
Deaf Smith
New member
Get closer, you will feel better about your chances of a clean kill.
If I wanted 'closer' I have a Remington 700 XCR 7mm-08 and Marlin 338 Texan 30-30.
But I want to hunt from my brother-in-law's barn... hence 500 yards (or more.)
"Maximum Point Blank Zero"
I don't need MPBZ. I have rifles that give me 300 yard MPBZ. I need a rifle I can zero for 500 and if the deer is 400 or 600 I don't have to hold over much.
Deaf
OzeanJaeger
New member
There is no deer cartridge that is suitable at 500. All of 'em drop like bricks between 300 and 400. However, it's not the drop that matters. It's the remaining energy. None of 'em have enough. And the shooter's ability to hit the fabled 9" pie plate, every time, at that distance.
Reticles and turrets have nothing to do with it.
A .220 Swift with a 60 grain bullet, drops 30.9" at 500, but only has 586 ft-lbs of remaining energy.
Totally agree. I was trying to answer the question he posed, and not the one I wanted to answer. The flattest shooting rifles are the ones with the most muzzle velocity, period. Suitable for medium sized game is another story, because the flattest are varmint rifles. Plenty of people kill deer with a .243 though, but now we're horse trading and balancing.
To me 500 yds is starting to be extreme range for flat shooting, because of the energy and penetration you cite. Flat shooting cartridges (marketed as varmint if store bought, except for 50 BMG) are not LR cartridges. They are medium and short range cartridges. My .220 Swift is 1-14 twist and the targets prove it doesn't have enough spin to stabilize a 60gr pill at high loadings. 50gr is still way to heavy and key-holes. The only load I've been able to get it to consistently shoot under a minute are those teeny-tiny 36gr Barnes spire points (pinch your fingers under the seater die), so the retained energy is miniscule @ 500 yds and the penetration would be nada. Two or three inches on a prairie dog happens to be plenty though!
Still shoots very flat! Just no power or penetration.
Pathfinder45
New member
Well then, I suggest that you forget about those trajectory charts that the ammo makers publish, and forget about any factory ammo. Just choose any caliber you fancy in a good rifle, and hand-load your ammo with premium components. Come up with a recipe that will give you the accuracy you need at a velocity you can live with, shoot it at all ranges and write your own trajectory chart. As much as you are likely to shoot this rifle, maybe you should consider a caliber that is expected to have a much longer barrel-life than the 257 Weatherby, 264 Winchester Magnum, and the like.
It will take a little work on your part,but I can tell you where to find your answer,without the bias or unfounded opinions.
Do your own ballistic software work.
Thereare others,but on the Hornady site is a useable ballistic calculator,free.
Crunch your own numbers.
Given your situation,put some form of wind flag,sock,or other reference out.
Make up a nice range card .
With a known barn/fields arrangement, a .308 trajectory will work.
Certainly a Jarrett type 280 Ackley bean field rifle would be ideal.
But IMO,if you will be in a barn over a known field,pick an accurate rifle you have,maybe,and spend the money good quality scope with target knobs (and 10X is enough). Get a good laser rangefinder .Use it to build your range card. For some reason the dang things occasionally won't get a read at 300 yds when you are ranging a deer!!
They make some nice wind gauge/flags you could put out at 50 or 100 yds.
Out to 600 yds,25 yd ranging accuracy should do. You can do that with your card detail. Glassing your wind gauge will give you good,quick info.
With a .308 and 168 gr ballistic tips or a 7-08 with 150 gr Ballistic tips out of a1 MOA rifle,hitting the vitals from a bench in a barn should be (reasonably) duck soup.
Of course,flatter shooting cartridges may be an advantage,but I'd rather have good range and wind data with target grade adjustments.
Regardless where you draw the line of sight through a trajectory,I can't think of a cartridge that will not require correction from 400 to 600 yds. They are all accelerating toward earth at that point.
If I have good inputs,twisting in 5 MOA is not so different than twisting in 7.5 MOA.
For myself,in your setting,I'd choose the laser,good adjustable optics,and something for a wind read along with a detailed range card over some brand new high speed 6mm x 378 Weatherby .
But back to answering the question you asked,with many honorable mentions,a 7MM Rem mag with 162 gr Hornady SST's will do about as well as anything.
Do your own ballistic software work.
Thereare others,but on the Hornady site is a useable ballistic calculator,free.
Crunch your own numbers.
Given your situation,put some form of wind flag,sock,or other reference out.
Make up a nice range card .
With a known barn/fields arrangement, a .308 trajectory will work.
Certainly a Jarrett type 280 Ackley bean field rifle would be ideal.
But IMO,if you will be in a barn over a known field,pick an accurate rifle you have,maybe,and spend the money good quality scope with target knobs (and 10X is enough). Get a good laser rangefinder .Use it to build your range card. For some reason the dang things occasionally won't get a read at 300 yds when you are ranging a deer!!
They make some nice wind gauge/flags you could put out at 50 or 100 yds.
Out to 600 yds,25 yd ranging accuracy should do. You can do that with your card detail. Glassing your wind gauge will give you good,quick info.
With a .308 and 168 gr ballistic tips or a 7-08 with 150 gr Ballistic tips out of a1 MOA rifle,hitting the vitals from a bench in a barn should be (reasonably) duck soup.
Of course,flatter shooting cartridges may be an advantage,but I'd rather have good range and wind data with target grade adjustments.
Regardless where you draw the line of sight through a trajectory,I can't think of a cartridge that will not require correction from 400 to 600 yds. They are all accelerating toward earth at that point.
If I have good inputs,twisting in 5 MOA is not so different than twisting in 7.5 MOA.
For myself,in your setting,I'd choose the laser,good adjustable optics,and something for a wind read along with a detailed range card over some brand new high speed 6mm x 378 Weatherby .
But back to answering the question you asked,with many honorable mentions,a 7MM Rem mag with 162 gr Hornady SST's will do about as well as anything.
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OzeanJaeger
New member
That, or buy a 500 watt Co2 laser. They shoot flat, flat.
This is what you want....
30 cal bullet for good selection of appropriate bullets
0.550 or better bc
Muzzle velocity 3000 fps-3100 fps
300 WSM
300 Win Mag
13-16 lb gun so you can hold it still.
Quality optic so you can dial it in.
Someone to carry your rest and someone to haul your rifle....a spotter/range finder/tracker would be a good fourth person to have along!
30 cal bullet for good selection of appropriate bullets
0.550 or better bc
Muzzle velocity 3000 fps-3100 fps
300 WSM
300 Win Mag
13-16 lb gun so you can hold it still.
Quality optic so you can dial it in.
Someone to carry your rest and someone to haul your rifle....a spotter/range finder/tracker would be a good fourth person to have along!
Deaf Smith said:I don't need MPBZ. I have rifles that give me 300 yard MPBZ. I need a rifle I can zero for 500 and if the deer is 400 or 600 I don't have to hold over much.
Invest in a Tracking Point rifle then, because the cartridge you're seeking doesn't exist.
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