Defensive Handgun for 80 Year Old Grandmother

[David the Gnome]

She lives on a farm of about 50-60 acres so practicing shouldn't be an issue, she can just go out back to the woods to shoot. She's been using rifles on the farm her whole life to take care of pests but I'm fairly certain her experience doesn't go beyond 22LR and .410 shotguns. I will discuss with her the pros/cons of choosing a long arm versus a handgun. I think she really just wants a nightstand gun in the event anyone breaks into the house. I'll bring a couple of my guns over when I go see her just to see if she can pull the trigger on a few of my revolvers or rack the slide on a semi-auto.

 

[David the Gnome]

Found one of these today for too good of a price to pass up:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3442560#post3442560

I'm going to let her shoot it and decide if she likes it or not. If she likes it I will let her keep it, if not it'll go in my collection. Any suggestions for some low-recoil 38spl ammunition?

 

[benogil]

After being in similar situation with a family member, I would recommend a 10/22 with a high capacity ( and reliable ) magazine. Cheaper than the charger, and capable of great defense with the right ammo ( stingers ). Low recoil, light sound print. May be the best compromise.

 

[David the Gnome]

I'm taking the 10/22 down with me when I go. I'll give her a number of guns to choose from, she can have whatever one works best for her. Right now it's the S&W Mod 15, the Ruger MK III, the Ruger 10/22, and I was also thinking a youth-sized 20 gauge pump might work well so long as it's loaded with some lighter shot.

 

[Lost Sheep]

On the 20 Gauge

David the Gnome

I'm taking the 10/22 down with me when I go. I'll give her a number of guns to choose from, she can have whatever one works best for her. Right now it's the S&W Mod 15, the Ruger MK III, the Ruger 10/22, and I was also thinking a youth-sized 20 gauge pump might work well so long as it's loaded with some lighter shot.

I think you will find that if you use a slug, buckshot or the smallest bird shot, the actual mass of the shot delivered is about the same, just more numerous for the smaller size.

For the best terminal ballistics, slug or buckshot is the usual choice.

By the way, congratulations on the nice revolver.

It is good to know that your Grandmother is an experienced shooter. That helps put our minds at ease.

Knowing that she lives on a larger plot of land, I might amend my suggestion about the dog to a couple of geese. Geese are great early warning devices (they honk like crazy at strangers) and will also keep her grass trimmed and can provide eggs. The trouble with them is that you cannot housebreak a goose.

Of course, the 20 gauge or 10/22 will not fit in a nightstand drawer, but on hooks alongside or above the door of a closet (and just inside) is out of sight, out of the way but ready all the time.

You are a good Grandson.


Lost Sheep

 

[jaydubya]

If your grandmother can pull that Model 10's double action trigger, I recommend for a starting range load mastercast's 100 gr WCs (www.mastercast.net). I fired off 500 of them as an experiment. They are almost like .22 in sound and recoil.

Cordially, Jack

 

[Jim March]

Discussing factory ammo versus reloading:

In 38Spl, 148gr target wadcutters are very mild but the broad flat nose puts a serious hurt on despite zero expansion. They're usually loaded to about 750fps from a 4" barrel, sometimes less. They have a good rep as a "granny gun load" due to low recoil - about as low as recoil gets in a 38Spl.

Also a valid option: Hornady just came out with a good low-speed expanding projectile they call the "Critical Defense". It's available as a 110gr 38Spl standard pressure load (in other words, not +P). Hornady lacked a good low-speed expander for a long time and has finally filled that gap. Since the gun in question has adjustable sights, dialing it in for 110gr shouldn't be a problem.

If you can afford it, Buffalo Bore has some good standard-pressure 38Spl defense loads, including a faster-than-normal full wadcutter and both 158gr and 125gr expanding stuff. The 125s will recoil worse than the Hornady 110s but it shouldn't be too bad. Buffalo Bore's standard pressure loads give as much bullet energy as most +P, so the recoil is stiffer but stress on the gun and to a limited extent stress on the shooter is lower than +P.

To get a standard-pressure load going like a +P, the powder charge has to be tuned to burn longer at a lower pressure rate, which ain't easy and one reason the BuffBores are worth the big bucks charged. It also changes the "shooting feel" in that net recoil is the same but it's more of a "broad push" on the hand versus a "short slap". The difference isn't extreme but it'll be there.

 

[Elvishead]

Jim March:

Discussing factory ammo versus reloading:

In 38Spl, 148gr target wadcutters are very mild but the broad flat nose puts a serious hurt on despite zero expansion. They're usually loaded to about 750fps from a 4" barrel, sometimes less. They have a good rep as a "granny gun load" due to low recoil - about as low as recoil gets in a 38Spl.

I agree. And get her some rubber Hogue grips for pete sakes!

Also, maybe a lighter hammer spring from Wolff to help ease the trigger pull.

PS: Looks like a square butt.

 

[longspurr]

Dave
My aunt is in the same situation. Your grandmother is 80 NOW, how long is she going to be able to live on the farm by herself? Think of what gun she might still still be able to use 5 + years from now. The right revolver is good - but pulling a double action - and having it hit a target are tough at those ages.

I vote a long gun. 10/22 with mag loaded, nothing in the chamber, safety off (10/22 mag even better). The magazine can easily be removed when the grandkids come over.

OR 410 / 20 pump. nothing in chamber, safety off. This is as close to KISS as I know. cycle the mechanism and pull the trigger.

Spend some bucks? Cut the barrel of the 10/22 even with the end of the stock and get a $200 tax stamp to make it legal.

 

[Deaf Smith]

David,

May I suggest a few guns.

Ruger 10/22 stainless carbine with 20 round Butler Creek magazines. Or.. a Ruger 10/22 .22 MAGNUM!

The Tomcat is a good one. But if it kicks a bit to much and you do have that kind of money (Tomcats are not cheep), then a Smith & Wesson airweight .22 magnum (I think it's an 8 shooter.)

The .22 magnum, especially from the rifle, might be a real good choice for someone who can't take recoil. Same goes for the pistol.

 

[guntotin_fool]

IS she going to carry it about town, or is it going to sit in the dresser drawer?

I would say a 20 gauge youth shotgun. loaded with 4 or 6 shot would be a great stopper at bedroom ranges. (Skip the BS about buckshot or slugs only, at this point we want function, and she can manage some 4 or 6 shot, and she might be able to handle like T shot in steel.

Hand gun, find a new or used charter arms .32 or smith .32 H&R let her shoot it with popper rounds, load it with duty ammo. Let her try something in a mid size .38 Special too, with popper loads for practice and good HP's for real, Odds that she will ever need it are slim, but if she does the adrenalin drop will mask the recoil...

If she stops the BG and suffers a sore wrist, thats a fair trade off.

 

[Distortion]

Sorry I haven't looked at this thread earlier. I have a Taurus 94 in 22LR, 9 shot revolver. Mine is blue with a 4 inch barrel. It's a DA/SA revolver, and I'm not sure if this is true of all of them, but mine has a really heavy DA trigger. I would be concerned about an older person's ability to pull the DA trigger of a Taurus 94 in a hectic situation, especially if they have arthritis.

 

[MEATSAW]

There was a story in the news a couple weeks back of an old grandma holding a BG at gunpoint in her home until police arrived. If I remember correctly she was using a .22lr revolver. I thought it was a pretty neat story, and shows that demonstration of lethal capability is a powerful coercive tool. Your Grandma will be well served by a good quality .22lr or .22mag revolver. Good luck in finding one!

 

[curt.45]

so dave? what did she decide on?

 

[Daugherty16]

Lighter Pressure Handloads, in a .38?

Try this - a SA/DA .357 revolver. Not too heavy, but the extra bulk will soak up some of the recoil. Can you find a managed-recoil .38? Do you handload? Can you find someone you trust - who could lighten the pressure a little back from standard .38 SAAMI pressures?

You've got the impressive bulk of a .357 revolver - terrifying if you happen to be on the wrong end. You've got the not unimpressive stopping power of a .38 caliber bullet - make it an expander, or a dumdum, what the heck. You have the option of manual cocking, which lightens the trigger pull to a mere whisper that even arthritic fingers should hopefully manage. All things considered, might this be the best bang for the buck?

 

[David the Gnome]

She picked the MK III. I let her have free choice of my entire collection and that was the one she liked shooting the best. She told me she used to shoot my grandfather's German Luger a lot and the design the the MK III is somewhat similar to that. I have a small loading tool to make loading the magazines easier for her and made sure she was able to rack the slide. She was a frighteningly good shot for someone 80 years old. She really likes it and was very happy to have a way to protect herself at home again.

The only thing my grandmother has trouble with is engaging the safety. My grandfather used to keep his Luger with a loaded magazine and no round in the chamber and that is the way she is used to using a handgun, where you have to rack the slide before shooting. So the solution we came up with was to store the MK III in the same manner, loaded magazine and no round chambered. That way she doesn't need to worry about the safety and she is using the presentation method she is used to.

 

[curt.45]

maybe you should look for an old Luger to pick up for her? she sounds like a neat grandmother.

and my mother is 87!

 

[Catfishman]

Great choice! You better get you another one. It's the only thing you can afford to shoot now days.

 

[Hardcase]

She made a good choice, I think. I was going to pop in and tell you that my wife's 84 year old grandmother has a J-frame S&W in .38 special with semi wadcutter hollow points in it and shoots it just fine, but it sounds like grandma is in business.

It's interesting that we talk about stopping power, shock and all that, but a .22 can get the job done. At the very least, it's gonna hurt a lot. And that Mk III is louder than people expect, too (especially if you're on the receiving end!) Besides, the yahoo who figures that some little old lady is going to be a pushover is gonna be really surprised...

 

[BillCA]

There was a story in the news a couple weeks back of an old grandma holding a BG at gunpoint in her home until police arrived. If I remember correctly she was using a .22lr revolver. I thought it was a pretty neat story, and shows that demonstration of lethal capability is a powerful coercive tool.

Several times a year you'll see some story about a senior citizen thwarting some crime with a .22 or .32 caliber handgun. Let's face it, if you are surprised by someone who is holding a gun telling you to leave or to stop, you're not too likely to notice the bore size. And some of those senior citizens can be ornery too!