Defensive Handgun for 80 Year Old Grandmother
- Thread starter David the Gnome
- Start date
I support the group that says, "Let her try them out and choose", but I also have some thoughts I want to pass on. I'm going to be 78 in two weeks, and racking the slide on my Browning Hi Power requires that I put a golf glove on first. I do not recommend an autoloader for your grandmother -- although she could visit www.corneredcat.com and prove me wrong. And your grandmother does not need a light handgun such as a Kahr or an Airweight -- she might fire it once, spout words you didn't know she knew, and whack you with it. She needs a handgun that will handle its end of the recoil bargain, such as a police turn-in S&W Model 10 in .38sp with a 4" barrel -- if she can pull the double action trigger with one finger. And if not, may I suggest a 20 gauge automatic shotgun, loaded with low brass #4 shot? An old woman pointing a shotgun at you. Now that is a sight no one wants to see.
Cordially, Jack
Cordially, Jack
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You really can't make this decision until you have her stroke a DA trigger. I'll betcha that will be a problem but if not it opens up all sorts of options, including the J-sized 22Magnums and the K-size 38Spl loaded mild.
If she can't, then you're looking at an auto, and that likely means 22LR in a fairly sizeable gun so as to reduce both recoil and slide spring tension.
If she can't, then you're looking at an auto, and that likely means 22LR in a fairly sizeable gun so as to reduce both recoil and slide spring tension.
Ever wonder why the medium frame 38 special double action revolver was the standard of most police departments for most of the 20th century? Easy to learn, most people can handle them, and they decent power. It's a point and shoot weapon. You can find nice ex-police ones at good prices. But as said before, take her out and let her try it. As long as she doesn't have any joint problems, she should do fine. Heck I'm a "gun guy" in my thirties and carry a DA 38spec more than anything else.
A small bore shotgun can be great for bedside/bump-in-the-night.
Are there any gun stores with ranges in the area. I'd think they'd be very willing to help out a nice old lady.
Let her try a few and she what works for her.
A small bore shotgun can be great for bedside/bump-in-the-night.
Are there any gun stores with ranges in the area. I'd think they'd be very willing to help out a nice old lady.
Let her try a few and she what works for her.The first questions you should be asking is about grandma's arthritis and her hand strength. At 80 years of age, I'd be surprised if she doesn't have some form of arthritis in her hands. That will help determine some form of semi-auto is indicated or if a DA revolver will work for her.
Another factor is how clear her mind is to learning new things. Unfortunately we've seen many seniors who have a hard time remembering what they've just learned unless they go through several days of repeated drills with a monthly refresher. This is familiar to those working with many seniors.
If she cannot work a DA trigger, another option might be to find her one of these;
Beretta Model 86 Cheetah .380 ACP
These single-stack "tip-up" barrel .380's offer enough power in a larger than normal frame for a pocket gun. The tip-up barrel eases loading and unloading, making slide manipulation unnecessary. The extra size and weight makes them a fairly nice shooter as well.
In the recoil department, a .38 special with wadcutters or standard pressure LSWC loads at around 770 fps will work fine. But there are still other alternatives.
S&W Model 31's - 2 & 3-inch barrels, .32 S&W Long Ctg.
The S&W Model 30 or 31 in .32 S&W Long are not huge fightstoppers, but they offer six shots in a J-Frame package. Their low recoil allows Grandma easy control when firing. And if she's pointing at someone it's doubtful they'll do anything but assume it's a .38 or .357 in her hand. At close range the .32 S&W Long can easily be lethal.
A step up in power is the .32 H&R Magnum. While it has a much louder bark, recoil is surprisingly light. Ruger, S&W and Taurus make six-shooters for this caliber. The revolvers chambered for it will also fire the .32 S&W Long.
S&W Model 432PD (The 431PD has an exposed hammer)
The .32H&R's were slow sellers, so you may be able to find one inexpensively.
Whatever she decides on, give her your support and help in learning to safely handle her gun and to shoot it well.
Another factor is how clear her mind is to learning new things. Unfortunately we've seen many seniors who have a hard time remembering what they've just learned unless they go through several days of repeated drills with a monthly refresher. This is familiar to those working with many seniors.
If she cannot work a DA trigger, another option might be to find her one of these;
Beretta Model 86 Cheetah .380 ACP
These single-stack "tip-up" barrel .380's offer enough power in a larger than normal frame for a pocket gun. The tip-up barrel eases loading and unloading, making slide manipulation unnecessary. The extra size and weight makes them a fairly nice shooter as well.
In the recoil department, a .38 special with wadcutters or standard pressure LSWC loads at around 770 fps will work fine. But there are still other alternatives.
S&W Model 31's - 2 & 3-inch barrels, .32 S&W Long Ctg.
The S&W Model 30 or 31 in .32 S&W Long are not huge fightstoppers, but they offer six shots in a J-Frame package. Their low recoil allows Grandma easy control when firing. And if she's pointing at someone it's doubtful they'll do anything but assume it's a .38 or .357 in her hand. At close range the .32 S&W Long can easily be lethal.
A step up in power is the .32 H&R Magnum. While it has a much louder bark, recoil is surprisingly light. Ruger, S&W and Taurus make six-shooters for this caliber. The revolvers chambered for it will also fire the .32 S&W Long.
S&W Model 432PD (The 431PD has an exposed hammer)
The .32H&R's were slow sellers, so you may be able to find one inexpensively.
Whatever she decides on, give her your support and help in learning to safely handle her gun and to shoot it well.
Lost Sheep
New member
Heavier is better
At 80 years old, her ability to tolerate recoil should be tested before settling on a gun. Heck, at 18 a person's recoil sensitivity should be tested before spending the money on a gun.
How much experience does she have with firearms?
Remember, the heavier a gun is, the easier it is to shoot (as long as you can lift it). A two-handed weapon is more than twice as comforable to shoot and WAY more accurate than a one-handed weapon. A 20 gauge pump (or 28 gauge, depending on her preference) would be really easy to manipulate and cheaper to buy. And a 20 gauge slug will out-perform any handgun round discussed so far. Mount a flashlight fore-end and she's good to go.
How much commitment does she have about using deadly force? Anyone who keeps any deadly device for protection should make peace with the possibility of the aftermath (both legal and moral). If she would have trouble handling the emotional effects of killing another human (even a bad guy), she should re-think the whole concept.
A firearm is only a part of a comprehensive home defense plan. How's hers? Cell phone, safe room, proper locks, exterior motion detectors, and maybe a dog.
Check out the excellent advice here, especially the part on caliber effectiveness.:
concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4121
Consider a dog. Excellent early-warning system. Good counselor, too. No good for concealed carry, but are self transporting. They also provide good aerobic exercise and will keep your feet warm at night (try THAT with a Beretta!).
How much will she practice? It will be a great way for you two to spend some quality time together. Just make sure she is committed. A weapon is a great great source of peace of mind, but it is illusion if the bearer is not well-practiced.
Remember: If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics are no good.
I hope this helps.
Remember to let us know how much experience she has. That will provide a LOT of guidance for those who would seek to advice you.
Lost Sheep
At 80 years old, her ability to tolerate recoil should be tested before settling on a gun. Heck, at 18 a person's recoil sensitivity should be tested before spending the money on a gun.
How much experience does she have with firearms?
Remember, the heavier a gun is, the easier it is to shoot (as long as you can lift it). A two-handed weapon is more than twice as comforable to shoot and WAY more accurate than a one-handed weapon. A 20 gauge pump (or 28 gauge, depending on her preference) would be really easy to manipulate and cheaper to buy. And a 20 gauge slug will out-perform any handgun round discussed so far. Mount a flashlight fore-end and she's good to go.
How much commitment does she have about using deadly force? Anyone who keeps any deadly device for protection should make peace with the possibility of the aftermath (both legal and moral). If she would have trouble handling the emotional effects of killing another human (even a bad guy), she should re-think the whole concept.
A firearm is only a part of a comprehensive home defense plan. How's hers? Cell phone, safe room, proper locks, exterior motion detectors, and maybe a dog.
Check out the excellent advice here, especially the part on caliber effectiveness.:
concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4121
Consider a dog. Excellent early-warning system. Good counselor, too. No good for concealed carry, but are self transporting. They also provide good aerobic exercise and will keep your feet warm at night (try THAT with a Beretta!).
How much will she practice? It will be a great way for you two to spend some quality time together. Just make sure she is committed. A weapon is a great great source of peace of mind, but it is illusion if the bearer is not well-practiced.
Remember: If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics are no good.
I hope this helps.
Remember to let us know how much experience she has. That will provide a LOT of guidance for those who would seek to advice you.
Lost Sheep
Why not a plain, ol' Model 10 loaded with regular .38 SPLs? A Model 14 would have a better trigger pull but it's basically the same, recoil-wise. Little guns kick more. Show her something with some meat on its bones. They're easier to manage. It shouldn't be too hard to find a K-frame for her to try.
Note: My physically able girlfriend has slide racking issues on some semis. Go revolver. Once again, a beater Model 10 is great for the house and one can get a ton of different loads, ranging from mild to thumping.
Note: My physically able girlfriend has slide racking issues on some semis. Go revolver. Once again, a beater Model 10 is great for the house and one can get a ton of different loads, ranging from mild to thumping.
One of my uncles, when he was in his 90s, used a Remington 870, tuned, with target loads for home defense. He had arthritis and couldn't rack a semi-auto pistol nor load a revolver; but he could load the 12 gauge shells and rack the slide. He said that the 12 gauge shells and the slide were easy for him to gasp. He said that the sound of the slide racking would clear most rooms. He also said that he just held it at his waist when he fired it. Arthritis in his shoulder, too. He wasn't a newby and had been around firearms all his life. I never saw him fire it, but knowing him, I don't think that he was bluffing.
I wouldn't recommend a 870 for your grandmother, but it is surprising what works for some of the elderly. And we all are getting there, if we live long enough. Me, I'm keeping my 870 just in case.
I wouldn't recommend a 870 for your grandmother, but it is surprising what works for some of the elderly. And we all are getting there, if we live long enough. Me, I'm keeping my 870 just in case.
A very good point about the emotional effects of taking another person's life. That issue needs to be discussed.Lost Sheep said:
At 80 years of age, I wouldn't be too concerned about the aftermath of a shooting incident. Any D.A. will know that such a woman will generate a lot of sympathy in the jury. A prosecutor would have to go above & beyond to make any charges stick. And it's doubtful that a woman her age, shooting an intruder inside her home, would ever be prosecuted.
For a senior, her defensive plan should be based on the KISS principle. As simple and logical as possible without trying to plan for every contingency. Simple screaming alarms on doors & windows, good locks and a simple plan if someone is actually inside (stay in bedroom, call police, cover the door).
Remember that seniors can't move as fast and may be "slow starters" when roused from a sleep. Many will fatigue much faster too.
Hi-PointMan
Moderator
Have you thought of getting a Hi-point 9mm?
Oh for God's sake...
Just in case you're serious, the "Hi" Points are big heavy blowback autos. Which means the slide spring is suitable as suspension for a small car. Ain't no way granny is going to be able to rack the thing without the use of some weird mechanical gizmo I'm trying not to even contemplate.
Ghaaa.
"Low Points" are embarassing junk, m'kay?
Just in case you're serious, the "Hi" Points are big heavy blowback autos. Which means the slide spring is suitable as suspension for a small car. Ain't no way granny is going to be able to rack the thing without the use of some weird mechanical gizmo I'm trying not to even contemplate.
Ghaaa.
"Low Points" are embarassing junk, m'kay?
80 Year old grandma you say? well **** that's easy!
find a hardwood dowel roughly 1" to 1 1/2" thick anywhere from 3' to 5' in length...
Nothing in this world is more terrifying then a grandma equipped with a good Hittin' Stick!
Hi-Point? Seriously... Dude before you run around recommending hi points buy a decent gun? hell a taurus would be a step up... Sorry were talking .22Mag .22LR .38spl and .32mag and you belt out 9mm get a clue shes EIGHTY! and buy something that isn't made out of melted down GI Joe's and old Lego's...
find a hardwood dowel roughly 1" to 1 1/2" thick anywhere from 3' to 5' in length...
Nothing in this world is more terrifying then a grandma equipped with a good Hittin' Stick!
Hi-Point? Seriously... Dude before you run around recommending hi points buy a decent gun? hell a taurus would be a step up... Sorry were talking .22Mag .22LR .38spl and .32mag and you belt out 9mm get a clue shes EIGHTY! and buy something that isn't made out of melted down GI Joe's and old Lego's...
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freakintoguns
New member
<~~~another vote for taking her to the range. my granddad and grandma went to the range every sunday after church until Lou Gerhigs set in for my granny. granny might sauprise ya too and bea ace shot! it was funny goin and watchin my grandma shoot circles around my grandad!
stickhauler
New member
Your Grandmother...
Is only 11 years older than my dear wife, who never shot in her life until just a month or so ago, and she does quite well with my Ruger .38 special revolver with a 5 inch barrel. But I do agree with a lot of the advice you already got, take her to a range were they have rental guns and let her try out several. A .22 is only going to make a bad guy mad unless you make a perfect shot in the heart or get behind them and put one into their brain space.
Is only 11 years older than my dear wife, who never shot in her life until just a month or so ago, and she does quite well with my Ruger .38 special revolver with a 5 inch barrel. But I do agree with a lot of the advice you already got, take her to a range were they have rental guns and let her try out several. A .22 is only going to make a bad guy mad unless you make a perfect shot in the heart or get behind them and put one into their brain space.
I'm with Woad Yurt on this one.
The Model 10 loaded with wadcutters if recoil is an issue and +p's if it is not (preferable).
Simple to use and accurate as handguns can get at close ranges.
J&G guns is selling double action Model 64 Stainless Model 10's,chopped hammer models with four inch barrels right now for only $225.
Granny can just point and shoot the burgular stupid enough to break into her home.
And you can be sure she won't leave the safety on or limp wrists it into a malfunction when she uses it to save her health and life.
Love you Grannie.
The Model 10 loaded with wadcutters if recoil is an issue and +p's if it is not (preferable).
Simple to use and accurate as handguns can get at close ranges.
J&G guns is selling double action Model 64 Stainless Model 10's,chopped hammer models with four inch barrels right now for only $225.
Granny can just point and shoot the burgular stupid enough to break into her home.
And you can be sure she won't leave the safety on or limp wrists it into a malfunction when she uses it to save her health and life.
Love you Grannie.