Colt developing a new revolver?
- Thread starter 18DAI
- Start date
I was chatting with Jon Phillips at the CCA Show in Louisville last week.
I actually got to hold a revolver that I wish Colt had made but they didn't.
And that is the Colt Survivor. I think a better name could have been chosen but it is descriptive.
And there is only one of them in existence.
And I had it in my hot little hand.
For those who are unfamiliar, the Colt Survivor is in essence a Colt Magnum Carry fitted with a Phillips & Rogers "Medusa" type cylinder. (and a superb action job)
Imagine a D-Frame, five shot, all stainless revolver that will chamber, fire and eject over a dozen cartridges interchangeably without clips or any other sort of contraption.
Everything from .38 Short Colt to .357 Magnum.
.38 S&W, .380acp, 38ACP, .38 Super.
9mm Luger, 9mm Largo, 9x21, 9x23 & 9mm Winchester Magnum.
And probably a few I can't think of.
Now that is versatile.
Colt expressed an interest in producing it.
It passed all of Colt's tests with flying colours.
Colt had the chance to make it but they didn't.
And no one knows (or at least they won't say) why.
I actually got to hold a revolver that I wish Colt had made but they didn't.
And that is the Colt Survivor. I think a better name could have been chosen but it is descriptive.
And there is only one of them in existence.
And I had it in my hot little hand.
For those who are unfamiliar, the Colt Survivor is in essence a Colt Magnum Carry fitted with a Phillips & Rogers "Medusa" type cylinder. (and a superb action job)
Imagine a D-Frame, five shot, all stainless revolver that will chamber, fire and eject over a dozen cartridges interchangeably without clips or any other sort of contraption.
Everything from .38 Short Colt to .357 Magnum.
.38 S&W, .380acp, 38ACP, .38 Super.
9mm Luger, 9mm Largo, 9x21, 9x23 & 9mm Winchester Magnum.
And probably a few I can't think of.
Now that is versatile.
Colt expressed an interest in producing it.
It passed all of Colt's tests with flying colours.
Colt had the chance to make it but they didn't.
And no one knows (or at least they won't say) why.
However, I would rather see a multicaliber revolver to be of the SAA kind, with a big adjustable rear sight with numbered notches, because, if you need to change ammo for matters of avaliability, you cannot efford to zero the weapon before you use it. It would be best to zero the weapon after purchase with a broad array of calibers and bullet weights and take note on paper at what notch the gun is zeroed at a given distance with a given caliber and load, then, when you have to use that caliber-load you just regulate the rear sight at the previously noted notch.
Cap
Cap
Last edited:
HammerBite
New member
I wonder if Colt is developing anything. The Colt Commercial website seems to have disappeared. I haven't been able to get there for nearly three days. Did they go belly-up and nobody told us?
Does anyone know if they changed their web address?
Does anyone know if they changed their web address?
www.coltsmfg.com seems to be working just fine for me.
Carlo, the Colt Survivor, just as the P&R Medusa revolver was designed to be as versatile as possible regarding ammunition so it could be better used in a TEOTWAWKI situation.
In this case, the extractor was also used to retain the ammunition in the cylinder.
Everything in the Medusa cylinder headspaced from the ejector instead of from the rim or mouth as is usual.
Trying to do that within the confines of a single action, pushrod ejection system wouldn't be nearly as practicle.
As for adjustable sights, while that would be optimal in a sporting firearm it would not be as necessary in a shortrange self defense firearm.
This isn't the type of weapon where one says, "Let's see, I'm going up against thin skinned creatures with three ears from Tralfamador today so I'll need to load up with reverse hollow point purple talons."
It's more of a, "Holy smoke I only have one round of .357 left and I'm down to three 9mm and a handfull of .380."
In a survival situation you usually don't have the luxury of having enough ammunition to be able to sight in for every flavor. At 20 feet everything shoots close enough to point of aim.
Remember this isn't a long range weapon. It's what you use to acquire a long range weapon.
Think of it in terms of a modern day Liberator pistol that you retain for use as a backup, hideout, wear when you're naked, sort of gun.
Unless you were a pilot or soldier cut off from supply behind enemy lines this probably wouldn't be anyone's first choice firearm. But if you were living in a Mad Max type of aftermath society it could quickly become one of the most useful.
So perhaps "The Survivor" was the right name for Colt to consider.
In this case, the extractor was also used to retain the ammunition in the cylinder.
Everything in the Medusa cylinder headspaced from the ejector instead of from the rim or mouth as is usual.
Trying to do that within the confines of a single action, pushrod ejection system wouldn't be nearly as practicle.
As for adjustable sights, while that would be optimal in a sporting firearm it would not be as necessary in a shortrange self defense firearm.
This isn't the type of weapon where one says, "Let's see, I'm going up against thin skinned creatures with three ears from Tralfamador today so I'll need to load up with reverse hollow point purple talons."
It's more of a, "Holy smoke I only have one round of .357 left and I'm down to three 9mm and a handfull of .380."
In a survival situation you usually don't have the luxury of having enough ammunition to be able to sight in for every flavor. At 20 feet everything shoots close enough to point of aim.
Remember this isn't a long range weapon. It's what you use to acquire a long range weapon.
Think of it in terms of a modern day Liberator pistol that you retain for use as a backup, hideout, wear when you're naked, sort of gun.
Unless you were a pilot or soldier cut off from supply behind enemy lines this probably wouldn't be anyone's first choice firearm. But if you were living in a Mad Max type of aftermath society it could quickly become one of the most useful.
So perhaps "The Survivor" was the right name for Colt to consider.
If I have to use a survival weapon, it has to be able to take game or hostiles with equal ease. If it can use lots of differnt rounds, but I cannot set point of impact for each of them, what's the gain? I'd rather take a double barrel one that can over a six shooter that can't.
Cap
Cap
Then you should choose a different weapon. There's more than one kind of survival.
If I'm want something that will keep me fed for an extended period of time then it sure won't be a 2" revolver no matter what the sights.
I see the Medusa concept as something which will enable me to acquire heavier weaponry. It's a last ditch gun with the capability of prolonged use as a back up or hideout weapon. And in keeping with that usage rugged fixed sights are preferable because they will not snag or be knocked out of adjustment.
jwphillips2
New member
Colt Survivor - Colt Defender
Bluesbear - you dog!
I told you it would take a while to post on here, but I made it. Sure enjoyed your company at the CCA. Here is the location for the Survivor. This pretty well sums up Colt involvement in the return to Capitalism (hooray!) I'll be back as soon as I can.
Just do what Bill Gates did. Just give us what we want, shut up, and take our money!
Oh yeah, the link.
http://ezapper.com
Jonathan
Bluesbear - you dog!
I told you it would take a while to post on here, but I made it. Sure enjoyed your company at the CCA. Here is the location for the Survivor. This pretty well sums up Colt involvement in the return to Capitalism (hooray!) I'll be back as soon as I can.
Just do what Bill Gates did. Just give us what we want, shut up, and take our money!
Oh yeah, the link.
http://ezapper.com
Jonathan
jwphillips2
New member
Colt could do this!
We made a LOT of drop-in conversions for the SA Ruger and yes, they had to be fitted for barrel gap, but it was something we offered the customer option for DIY or gunsmith. So, that was for the Auto-Rim, 45 LC, 45 ACP, and 45 WinMag and I occasionally shot 44 Special and 44 Mag. If you needed more horsepower than that, we offered a 5 shot conversion for the Super Redhawk .44 in 50 Action Express. We had a long frame that shot .455 Marlin!
Is anyone interested in pictures?
We made a LOT of drop-in conversions for the SA Ruger and yes, they had to be fitted for barrel gap, but it was something we offered the customer option for DIY or gunsmith. So, that was for the Auto-Rim, 45 LC, 45 ACP, and 45 WinMag and I occasionally shot 44 Special and 44 Mag. If you needed more horsepower than that, we offered a 5 shot conversion for the Super Redhawk .44 in 50 Action Express. We had a long frame that shot .455 Marlin!
Is anyone interested in pictures?
jwphillips2
New member
Thanks for having me.
This is going to take a while. I have a new camera which is allowing me to learn it (I don't have pics of the 50AE) and I don't know where all the other jpegs and un-scanned negatives are hiding, but I will find them. Looong drive back to Houston....
This is going to take a while. I have a new camera which is allowing me to learn it (I don't have pics of the 50AE) and I don't know where all the other jpegs and un-scanned negatives are hiding, but I will find them. Looong drive back to Houston....
I, for one, would celebrate a current production Python or Anaconda.
But I have a sinking feeling that any "top shelf" Colt revolver would inevitably result in threads asking "should I shoot it". It might even include a manual counseling not to "turn" it, lest its value plummet. That would just be ... depressing. It's depressing enough when I read about "unturned" SAAs, surely whatever afflicts the SAA could be kept from spreading to other Colt products?
Perhaps they can develop a "turn proof" finish that looks like Python Royal Blue... Doesn't hurt to hope.
But I have a sinking feeling that any "top shelf" Colt revolver would inevitably result in threads asking "should I shoot it". It might even include a manual counseling not to "turn" it, lest its value plummet. That would just be ... depressing. It's depressing enough when I read about "unturned" SAAs, surely whatever afflicts the SAA could be kept from spreading to other Colt products?
Perhaps they can develop a "turn proof" finish that looks like Python Royal Blue... Doesn't hurt to hope.
Wow, what a thread. Just about everything I could think of has already been said. I might add that S&W is still selling revolvers (don't know how many) that aren't too different from those of a hundred years ago. I know, they went to the "short action" in the late forties, which immediately produced an artificial demand for the discontinued "long action" revolvers. Some experts at the time declared the old ones were better.
I for one do not think such Colts as are available at the moment are overpriced, unless you compare them with Springfield Armory or Thompson, and the Colts are much better. They are altogether different than most others, so the comparison is more difficult. I also miss their line of .380 models, both the pre-war and the post-war, though the post-war models were much nicer to shoot. Anyway, the Colts I have had were all better than the Springfield Armory or Thompsons, but I never had one of the more expensive competitors or a double action Colt automatic.
Elmer Keith used to complain about Colt, too, saying they should have brought out a modernized single action (like Ruger). Would they have sold?
I don't think Colt is a publicly held company. I used to own some Colt stock but they basically went private about 20 years ago.
Another thing is that a company doesn't have to be a "gun company" to make a gun. Glock proved that but during WWII, several companies manufactured 1911's that had never manufactured firearms before. The design is another matter, however. I also take to heart the comment about "should I shoot it?" as applied to various models. I understand why they make them (to sell!) but both Colt and especially Winchester have manufactured a lot of commeratives and so has S&W.
Maybe the market for firearms isn't as huge as we think it is.
I for one do not think such Colts as are available at the moment are overpriced, unless you compare them with Springfield Armory or Thompson, and the Colts are much better. They are altogether different than most others, so the comparison is more difficult. I also miss their line of .380 models, both the pre-war and the post-war, though the post-war models were much nicer to shoot. Anyway, the Colts I have had were all better than the Springfield Armory or Thompsons, but I never had one of the more expensive competitors or a double action Colt automatic.
Elmer Keith used to complain about Colt, too, saying they should have brought out a modernized single action (like Ruger). Would they have sold?
I don't think Colt is a publicly held company. I used to own some Colt stock but they basically went private about 20 years ago.
Another thing is that a company doesn't have to be a "gun company" to make a gun. Glock proved that but during WWII, several companies manufactured 1911's that had never manufactured firearms before. The design is another matter, however. I also take to heart the comment about "should I shoot it?" as applied to various models. I understand why they make them (to sell!) but both Colt and especially Winchester have manufactured a lot of commeratives and so has S&W.
Maybe the market for firearms isn't as huge as we think it is.
I meant to mention in my previous post here about the contributor's comment about Colt developing a smaller framed 1911 type automatic for the 9mm. As with most other things mentioned in this thread, that, too, has already been done. But there is a lot to the story.
I have been unable to find any information on-line about this and my information comes from an article in the American Rifleman, as near as I recall. This was not recent.
Colt did indeed develop a smaller 1911 along with a proprietary cartridge in the 1920's. At the time, Colt was having some success selling the .45 Government Model overseas and it was even manufactured overseas for a while. Norway was one of the buyers and I believe some were manufactured in Norway quite recently for cost comparison purposes when a replacement was being considered for whatever they were using at the time. You will recall that in the 1920's the 9mm had not yet become common and had only been chambered in Lugers (and perhaps a few Mausers). However, Colt had no success in selling a smaller automatic in a different caliber. I have no idea what the caliber was but it would have been similar to the .38ACP.
Star did make such a pistola in the form of the BKM and BM and in fact, a BM is the only automatic I own at the moment. I think the (lightweight) Commander is the best Colt ever (in any caliber) but the BM is nearly perfect as far as size goes. I also had one of the last BKM's sold by Interarms and I used it until it started to fall apart. Durability was never one of Star's outstanding attributes.
I have been unable to find any information on-line about this and my information comes from an article in the American Rifleman, as near as I recall. This was not recent.
Colt did indeed develop a smaller 1911 along with a proprietary cartridge in the 1920's. At the time, Colt was having some success selling the .45 Government Model overseas and it was even manufactured overseas for a while. Norway was one of the buyers and I believe some were manufactured in Norway quite recently for cost comparison purposes when a replacement was being considered for whatever they were using at the time. You will recall that in the 1920's the 9mm had not yet become common and had only been chambered in Lugers (and perhaps a few Mausers). However, Colt had no success in selling a smaller automatic in a different caliber. I have no idea what the caliber was but it would have been similar to the .38ACP.
Star did make such a pistola in the form of the BKM and BM and in fact, a BM is the only automatic I own at the moment. I think the (lightweight) Commander is the best Colt ever (in any caliber) but the BM is nearly perfect as far as size goes. I also had one of the last BKM's sold by Interarms and I used it until it started to fall apart. Durability was never one of Star's outstanding attributes.
Norway made their own guns on Colt supplied machinery and called it the Model 1914. When the Nazis occupied Norway they produced them for their own use in that area.
Yes Virginia there were German troops issued American style .45s during WWII.
Llama made a reduced size 9mm called the Llana Especial XI (my Father bought his brand new in Arizona in 1948) but they discontinued it in 1954.
The 9mm became VERY popular in Europe during the interm years between the War To End All Wars and World War II.
In addition to Lugers adopted and sold to a gazillion other countries you had the 9mm Broomhandle Mauser.
Chinese Mauser copies
Astra pistols
The Walther MP, AP and P-38
The Browning High Power
The Polish Radom
The various Llama pistols
The Star Model B
I'm sure there were others but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
The rest of the European manufacturers were concentrating on the Browning designed 9mm Kurtz (.380)
In America the focus was on the Browning designed .38 ACP and it's offspring the Super .38 Auto.
There were so many cheap, surplus 9mm pistols flooding the market in the 50s and 60s that America started paying attention to the 9mm Luger cartridge.
The first American made 9mm pistol was the Colt Commander in 1948.
It wasn't until 1954 that S&W jumped on the bandwagon with their 9mm Model 39.
It was like the 4-Track/8-Track/Cassette wars of the late 60s and the
Beta/VHS/LaserDisk wars of the late 70s.
In this case the 9mm Luger won the .35 caliber popularity contest.
You can compare it to the popularity of the 7.62x39 cartridge.
I couldn't give away a Valmet M62S in the late 70s because there was no ammo available for it.
Same with a Makarov pistol or a Nagant revolver.
It took a deluge of cheap guns and cheap ammo to create a demand.
Once the floodgates of AK clones opened Remington, Winchester and other companies tooled up to produce appropriate ammo.
Yes Virginia there were German troops issued American style .45s during WWII.
Llama made a reduced size 9mm called the Llana Especial XI (my Father bought his brand new in Arizona in 1948) but they discontinued it in 1954.
The 9mm became VERY popular in Europe during the interm years between the War To End All Wars and World War II.
In addition to Lugers adopted and sold to a gazillion other countries you had the 9mm Broomhandle Mauser.
Chinese Mauser copies
Astra pistols
The Walther MP, AP and P-38
The Browning High Power
The Polish Radom
The various Llama pistols
The Star Model B
I'm sure there were others but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
The rest of the European manufacturers were concentrating on the Browning designed 9mm Kurtz (.380)
In America the focus was on the Browning designed .38 ACP and it's offspring the Super .38 Auto.
There were so many cheap, surplus 9mm pistols flooding the market in the 50s and 60s that America started paying attention to the 9mm Luger cartridge.
The first American made 9mm pistol was the Colt Commander in 1948.
It wasn't until 1954 that S&W jumped on the bandwagon with their 9mm Model 39.
It was like the 4-Track/8-Track/Cassette wars of the late 60s and the
Beta/VHS/LaserDisk wars of the late 70s.
In this case the 9mm Luger won the .35 caliber popularity contest.
You can compare it to the popularity of the 7.62x39 cartridge.
I couldn't give away a Valmet M62S in the late 70s because there was no ammo available for it.
Same with a Makarov pistol or a Nagant revolver.
It took a deluge of cheap guns and cheap ammo to create a demand.
Once the floodgates of AK clones opened Remington, Winchester and other companies tooled up to produce appropriate ammo.
jwphillips2
New member
Don't forget the .38 Auto and .38 Super (which is actually a 9mm). One that died was the S&W Model 52 which fired a full wadcutter called the .38 Mid-Range. It was sweet and accurate in the 60s with hardly any recoil.
Para Odinance makes a wicked accurate tiny .45 Auto called a Warthog that is a scaled down 1911. Double-stack 11 shot. I think they advertize it as the world's smallest 1911 style auto. Deserves a look.
Para Odinance makes a wicked accurate tiny .45 Auto called a Warthog that is a scaled down 1911. Double-stack 11 shot. I think they advertize it as the world's smallest 1911 style auto. Deserves a look.
jwphillips2
New member
I forgot one piece of dubious information. When I was doing tests of various ammo and still owned an Ohler skyscreen chrono, I found that 50-shot comparison of ammo fired out of a revolver was 75 to 110 fps faster than an auto. The .38 Super averaged 100 fps faster. The auto action absorbs a lot more energy than you think.