Bear Attack: Handgun, Knife, or play dead at Close Range

[CobrayCommando]

I guess I just figured spittle conditions
Because he wants to use a knife. I'll take the 9 under that particular condition.

I suppose if you assume that the bear appears 2 feet in front of you then your choice would make a lot more sense. However I assumed that when he said charge he meant that the bear would charge, then obviously end up at spittle distance...

Maybe the original poster could chime in?

I don't understand the knife thing at all I guess. What would you rather have against a small car coming at you at 40 MPH ddelange, a pistol to shoot the driver (brain and/or eyes of the bear), or a knife to slash the tires (bleed the bear to death with a knife)? Maybe that analogy would give you some clue as to the average bear encounter. Now, if you literally walk into a room and a bear is standing there... Well hell I would still prefer a gun.

 

[Harley Quinn]

I thank you one and all

Your opinions are yours mine are mine.

Hope you learned something while looking for other items.

The bottom line is If I was hunting bear I would most definitly pick another gun but under the conditions set forth in the original post, I will still go with my thoughts.

Sure I could go with a big old Linebaugh, or a 44 mag. it makes more sense but I usually carry the 9.

So that is what I am up against it is not a fantasy it is a reality. If I had a rifle to choose from I would have mentioned it.

Hand gun, or knife, or roll up in a ball. An accidental encounter. Simple. I would hope to stand still and it goes away.

HQ

 

[ddelange]

I suppose if you assume that the bear appears 2 feet in front of you then your choice would make a lot more sense. However I assumed that when he said charge he meant that the bear would charge, then obviously end up at spittle distance...

Maybe the original poster could chime in?

chiming in: The poll question assumes that for whatever reason, you don't have a long gun, and the bear is "within striking distance" giving you enough time to: play dead, draw a handgun, or unsheath a hunting knife--before he is upon you.

I mentioned the hunting knife option because, even though my practice in Bear country is to carry a .44 Mag w/ #300gr hard cast bullets, I'm willing to reexamine my practices from time to time. It is a fact that a knife is more deadly to a human than a pistol inside 5 feet. So, I thought to open up a discussion to see if anyone thought a long hunting knife could be more lethal against a Bear than a handgun. I'm not advocating using a knife against a bear if a handgun is available, but I am willing to open it for discussion. As a hunter, I've seen how much penetration and damage a 6-8" blade can do against big game.

Repeated stabs to the head and throat of a Bear, or 6 large caliber shots? I think the posters on this list have immediately responded with "handgun" without considering what a knife can do at close range if you know what to stab and slice.

 

[guntotin_fool]

I know a guy in alaska who guides, famous guy, his daughter is plain out spooky at guiding too. She maybe better than him. She carries and has used a .357 mag loaded with 180 grainer hard casts. In shooting a nuisance bear that had broken in to a few camps, they later propped up the bear and shot him several times to determine effectiveness on the dead bear and found that 180 grain hard cast penetrated just as deeply as 270 hard cast 44 magnums and 300 grainers from a 45 Cassull. Sometime later she was guiding some fisherman when a large adolescent male refused to leave them alone. Spray, whistles, firecrackers did not scare this bear away. When it closed to within a few yards and made a couple of false charges, the woman finally shot. Three .357s in the head, one of which entered the eye, dropped the bear at her feet. She was fine, at least one of the customers needed clean clothes.

As far as black bears, two summers ago in Quetico canoe area, we had a black bear that had NO fear of humans in our camp. Spotlights, bear spray, two cherry bombs, and lots of guys screaming like idiots at the bear did not phase it all. We left after we found out that it was stalking one of the party when he walked down to clean fish. This was a full grown bear. Maybe 300 pounds. He could walk if he wanted to silently. One of our party had the bear spray that also had the dye in it, we tied that to a tree and got a really good shot on the bear as he walked past using a string to pull the trigger. We left that campsite before dark as we decided that if he was that fearless in the day time, what would he be at night and us asleep in a tent. We reported the behavior of the bear to the park service when we pulled out.

two summers before that in the BWCA we had a black bear push over a 10 inch diameter poplar that we had tied our food packs in. Another guy showed us pics of the trunk of his car after a black bear had decided that it contained something he wanted. The bear stood on the car and got its claws in the trunk lid seam and literally pulled the trunk lid off the car.

If i have to deal with a bear I want as a minimum a 44 mag carbine. I will carry a 44 mag pistol but I want bigger readily available. I would love to see what a 500 S&W or a 460 S&W would do out of a trapper length carbine.

 

[CobrayCommando]

Ddelange, I guess what confused me is that you asked what would you want against a charging bear when it reaches striking distance, which is nonsensical, because what idiot would wait for a CHARGING BEAR to reach striking distance before shooting. Ohhh... One with a knife...

Sorry man I think a sword, much less a knife, is a silly and stupid idea. If you're limited to handgun, get the biggest you can handle and aim for whatever vital areas are easiest for you to hit. A K-Bar is only 6 or 7 inches long, its not going to penetrate the head, and you stabbing the throat would still leave the bear about half a minute to maul you. Count to thirty while taking a cheese grater to your penis and that should give you an idea of what the average knife vs. bear fight would be like.

I'm glad your not advocating a knife because its rather crazy.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Cheese grater to my what!

That hurts just thinking about it

I think the time has come for all good men to protect their unit.

HQ

 

[Phxdog]

As a hunter, I've seen how much penetration and damage a 6-8" blade can do against big game.

Repeated stabs to the head and throat of a Bear, or 6 large caliber shots? I think the posters on this list have immediately responded with "handgun" without considering what a knife can do at close range if you know what to stab and slice.

There's no doubt a large knife is very deadly in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. But against a wild animal hell bent on causing you harm? Not for me brother!

While in Australia, I witnessed a 3 ft. Kangaroo disembowel a dog that had cornered it in an enclosure. It was all over in about a second & a half. I admit that I know nothing about charging bears, but I would assume that nobody would have much time for "repeated stabs to the head and throat" of an angry, charging bear.

A lucky thrust might eventually result in the death of the bear, but not until it had spent several minutes cleaning pieces of you or me from between its claws.

 

[Ftom14cat]

For those of you who still like a 9mm........

If you really are hell bent on using the nine, then this is the only practical and possibly survivable way I can see to do it....

Take these loads http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_nonsub/gelatin_testing/buck_00_fed_mag/gelatin_buckshot_00_mag.html


....in this http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1032624174739440974



Then mag dump

 

[Cosmoline]

With no long gun at close range against a charging bear, I'd opt for a double action .357 to .44 mag with heavy hardcast. The .500 S&W is a silly choice, and even the SRH casull is pretty impractical. It's slower to deploy than a carbine and quite a bit more annoying to tote.

No amount of firearm power is sufficient to stop a brown bear with ft. lbs. alone. You need to hit in the right place, either the shoulder or the brain pan. And you have to be able to do it very, very quickly. Aimed, fast fire is more important by far than power. I favor a .357 revolver as a backup, but almost any long gun is better.

A knife is possible in theory. Gene Moe fought off an island brownie with one a few years ago. But he would never have opted for a knife over a handgun. He only used the knife because he was surprised while butchering a deer. He used his rifle as soon as he could get to it. Plus, Gene Moe is tougher than a coffin nail but the fight nearly killed him and left him badly mauled. It tossed him around like a rag doll and even his hardest knife slashes only seemed to make it more angry. Even Moe believes he only came out alive because of religious intervention. Anyone thinking the bear is going to stand there while you hack at it like a slab of beef is laughably naive. A closer analogy would be to hack at a bulldozer blade while the driver is trying to crush you.

 

[sportshooter]

10mm loaded with full power Corbon or Double Tap ammo for small Michigan bears..

 

[Harley Quinn]

This Black bear died

While in the bathroom.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212982

40 cal s&w does not penetrate like a 9mm. Sooooo What do you think?
Or maybe it does. Anyway he was last seen relaxing in the John

HQ

 

[profshadow]

I'd take that crazy Austrian's .600 revolver mentioned in the Revolver forum:

http://www.pfeifer-waffen.at/cms/html/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=15

 

[Varmint Eviscerator]

It only outweighs me by a mere 1000lbs, nuthin special, really. Knife? Pistol? What are these strange implements? who needs those-I can take em, no problem. Just lemme at em
Chase

 

[4V50 Gary]

.500 S&W minimum (and hopefully it's ported).

Concerning knives, read about Holt Collier. That tough hombre went into a log with his knife to save his dog. Stabbed the bear and then was trapped when the bear expired, leaving Holt stuck until his friend mustered enough courage to check on him. Holt Collier is the fellow who tethered that black bear for Teddy R. to shoot.

 

[johnsonrlp]

I'd just grin him down like Davy Crocket

If it's charging, shoot.
If it's on top of you, good luck

 

[razorburn]

Razorburn
Honestly, I don't have to read the internet to get information on black bears, living in Northern Ontario. Further there's really no need to get your hair up, like I said I'm just stating my opinion, take it or leave it for what its worth. I would just hate to see anyone think that they would be alright getting between a sow and her cubs, due to something that they read on some.... gun site,... cat site, ....or bear site.

My hair isn't up, and I'm not upset at all. I am sorry if it sounded that way. You are free to state your opinion of course, on matters which are subjective. On more objective matters of course, it's not really a matter of opinion. I can't very well state my opinion that 2 + 2= 5. That's just wrong. If you choose to listen to the advice of others, it's wiser to listen to an expert. And living in Northern Ontario does not make one an expert on black bear. I live in WA, and have an on-site black bear facility containing about a dozen bears. I'd wager I see bears much more frequently then you. But I'm definately not an expert, and I don't pretend to be. The author of that website is an expert. I'd hate to see anyone hurt by naively following the advice of amateurs such as you and me, over the facts as presented by someone who actually knows they're talking about.

 

[Cosmoline]

The simple fact about the boar was that your precious 9mm (whose virtues you extoll at every opportunity while deriding most other choices as "too slow", whatever the hell that means") failed miserably. A +P+ out of a long barreled gun BOUNCED off of the damn thing Harley!

While not ideal by any means, a 9x19 has been used to stop a charging sow up here a few years back. The round crippled her shoulder, and subsequent shots killed her. They will not bounce off--I don't know where you're getting that.

 

[Bic]

Razorburn
Being a expert on black bears was never suggested by myself, further living in Northern Ontario dose not make you a expert, I agree, you must be right, you must know far more than I about black bears,seeing as you live at a facility with bears. There is no doubt in my mind that you probably do see more bears than I, at your zoo facility. You feel free to go ahead and listin to your expert, but this lad, is not getting between a sow and a cub. This has nothing to to with being a expert, this is just good ole common sence, and any time you think you may be getting ready to kick a 100lb bears ars, please give me a call, I would really find this entertaining.

 

[CobrayCommando]

Harley, this is a quote from that post.

Quote:
Knowlton said the bear started back up the stairs toward his son. He shot the animal multiple times and it went back downstairs.

...the sergeant who responded quipped that he'd been in many a hairy situation over the years, but few so scary as entering a house where there might be a wounded bear on the loose.

Officers found the bear dead in a bathroom, surrounded by a pool of blood and scat. Knowlton said state wildlife officials came and picked up the carcass. It took four people to load it into the truck, he said.

1. Multiple shots
2. It went back downstairs
3. Didn't know it was dead
4. Had time to go in the bathroom to die

Sounds like the glock was about as effective as a knife. The bear didn't die from the gunshots, it died from blood loss.

If it had charged him instead of retreating, he'd be dead.

The glock didn't stop the bear.

Edited to add: I own a glock. But I also know its limitations.

And the .40 SW he was using, that penetrates worse then a 9mm? 180 grainers at 1300 FPS. Not too shabby. Plus according to the guy one may have bounced off of the bear. PS I believe it was a 10mm not a .40

The bear had time to rip off his head, crap down his neck, and eat his mother****ing chocolates before dying. That bear was a hardass, and thats only a black bear.

Go ahead! Use your 9mm!

 

[Atticus13]

Best weapon by far is a box of Popeye's fried chicken

just throw it at the bear and then run. It will stop him in his tracks. Second best weapon is to bring a friend with you who you know is slower than you. You then won't have to outrun the bear, just outrun your ex-friend.