imashooter
New member
Please don't ask my opinion. I'm mum on mim.
Are there any non MIM 1911s made anymore?
- Thread starter Sterling
- Start date
I think some of us have an exaggerated idea of the "craftsmanship" and "careful gunsmithing" that went into WWII-era guns. Maybe hand fitting and care went into pre-war and post-war guns, but in wartime, the guns were made as fast as the parts could be turned out and put together by "wartime help", many of whom knew no more about gunsmithing than my daughter's pet cat. They got it mostly right, not because they were 1911 experts, but because after you put guns together eight hours a day for a couple of years, you sort of get to know how.
And don't overlook that government inspectors were camping on the factory floor, spot checking parts and testing every gun that came off the line.
Jim
And don't overlook that government inspectors were camping on the factory floor, spot checking parts and testing every gun that came off the line.
Jim
As you mention, let me toss in an aside, that the men who know best, the ones who genuinely know the wartime needs of production, pointed out that semiautomatic handguns made in bulk to toss into trenches were sloppily built with loose tolerances. Inaccurate, but reliable, and shoveled out by the truckload.. battle rifles were a different object.
I've seen the old military revolvers,too, and they would make someone raised with new stock fetch.
YMMV, this represents my experience, and the knowledge passed on to me. If the older guns were so great, why did we ever need so many gunsmiths who devoted their lives to making factory weapons shoot straight?
I've seen the old military revolvers,too, and they would make someone raised with new stock fetch.
YMMV, this represents my experience, and the knowledge passed on to me. If the older guns were so great, why did we ever need so many gunsmiths who devoted their lives to making factory weapons shoot straight?
Dont know if this post belongs here but....
If a gun like the PT1911 has just as many mim parts as the next guy why so much bad talk or hate about it. Understanding its a Taurus and they have had qc issuses what gun company hasent.... its still a variant of a tried and true platform. I see more fandom/ love for RIAs 1911 (similar price point) wich are totaly fine in my book despite all parties knowing the Tauri uses a forged steel slide and frame vs RIAs cast units. I wonder if its because of Tauris other problem models past and present or what. I own both and a Ruger SR1911 truthfully the SR does feal like a better qaulity gun /materials fit and finish / compared to the RIA but very similar to my PT. And all 3 shoot like champs after 3k rds each. I just think the PT gets a bad rap from many guys that have never even shot one let alone own one. The ole "im not buying that one cause Bill said not too" bad rap.
If a gun like the PT1911 has just as many mim parts as the next guy why so much bad talk or hate about it. Understanding its a Taurus and they have had qc issuses what gun company hasent.... its still a variant of a tried and true platform. I see more fandom/ love for RIAs 1911 (similar price point) wich are totaly fine in my book despite all parties knowing the Tauri uses a forged steel slide and frame vs RIAs cast units. I wonder if its because of Tauris other problem models past and present or what. I own both and a Ruger SR1911 truthfully the SR does feal like a better qaulity gun /materials fit and finish / compared to the RIA but very similar to my PT. And all 3 shoot like champs after 3k rds each. I just think the PT gets a bad rap from many guys that have never even shot one let alone own one. The ole "im not buying that one cause Bill said not too" bad rap.
FrankenMauser
New member
The Kia Sedona is a knock-off of a Ford Windstar.
But you still wouldn't consider them to be the same vehicle, would you?
Quality of materials.
Material handling methods.
Process controls.
Quality of machining.
And more....
All of the above can take a "perfect" design and turn it into an absolute piece of garbage.
It isn't really about what the manufacturing process is; but who is doing it and how well they're controlling the materials and the way they're handled.
S&W and Ruger, for example, are well known for making very high quality parts with "less than desirable" methods (MIM and investment casting, respectively). Yet, they maintain their reputation with those parts, and both companies continue to build upon their reputation.
On the other hand, some companies are still having teething problems or just don't care to put in the effort and money required to fine-tune the process or buy higher quality raw materials for their MIM or investment cast parts. TC (triggers) and Taurus come to mind immediately.
Tucker 1371
New member
+1
But I can't fault the lower end companies for knowing their limitations and making the best 1911 they can within those limitations. I had a Taurus 1911 and had zero issues or complaints with it, the only thing I would've changed about was how they used the slide as a billboard. I very much regret selling it.
Tucker 1371
New member
If it works, and lasts, who cares? Everyone had pretty much the same reaction when the VP70 and Glock came to be and look where we are now? Can't throw a rock without hitting a polymer handgun. MIM parts got a bad start, but now that most companies that use it have worked out the kinks, I don't see a problem with it.
You want a gun without MIM? Pony up the cash and get a Dan Wesson, Les Baer, Nighthawk or Wilson. You want a gun that works but doesn't break the bank? Be willing to accept a few MIM parts. That's the reality we live in, honestly, IMO, it's not the 1911 apocalypse everyone makes it out to be.
You want a gun without MIM? Pony up the cash and get a Dan Wesson, Les Baer, Nighthawk or Wilson. You want a gun that works but doesn't break the bank? Be willing to accept a few MIM parts. That's the reality we live in, honestly, IMO, it's not the 1911 apocalypse everyone makes it out to be.
sigarms228
New member
Or you can get a Sphinx SDP 9MM for around $810. Plenty of nice German SIGs available too if one does not mind used and often in the $600 range.
Seriously? you are suggesting that a person who won't settle for a few non machined parts should buy a used one instead?
A person who is so picky that every piece on his shootin iron must be machined from solid stock may also be unwilling to pick up someone else's leavings.
All of my life I've carefully observed the "quirks"and just plain foolishness of society.
Fifty years ago, mechanically deboned meat came to the public, and the world encompassing shockwave was just crazy. Our government was going to allow bone chips or other non-meat products into the food supply! Now, we have a product called pink slime, and almost every person agrees that it's fine to give that to kids and freeloaders, or prison inmates.
I believe that maybe 9 in 10 people have accepted polymer pistols as being useful and durable. In truth, most of the polymer haters I have met were clueless. They hated them so much that they had never fired one, and anything that they said about them was useless noise, repeated information that they probably got from other clueless haters.
Modern metallurgy is magnificent and modern technology in design and manufacture is brilliant. The day will come when people forget that there was a customary way of doing things, and they will notice how amazing it is to own a pistol manufactured with technology borrowed from the space program and other amazing fields.
The day is coming when a truly serious shooter is going to strip Dow his gun, and find a tool mark, and start a thread hollering about his brand new thing having shoddy parts.
Fifty years ago, most of the people I knew would have rather died than own a foreign made gun other than a war relic.
A person who is so picky that every piece on his shootin iron must be machined from solid stock may also be unwilling to pick up someone else's leavings.
All of my life I've carefully observed the "quirks"and just plain foolishness of society.
Fifty years ago, mechanically deboned meat came to the public, and the world encompassing shockwave was just crazy. Our government was going to allow bone chips or other non-meat products into the food supply! Now, we have a product called pink slime, and almost every person agrees that it's fine to give that to kids and freeloaders, or prison inmates.
I believe that maybe 9 in 10 people have accepted polymer pistols as being useful and durable. In truth, most of the polymer haters I have met were clueless. They hated them so much that they had never fired one, and anything that they said about them was useless noise, repeated information that they probably got from other clueless haters.
Modern metallurgy is magnificent and modern technology in design and manufacture is brilliant. The day will come when people forget that there was a customary way of doing things, and they will notice how amazing it is to own a pistol manufactured with technology borrowed from the space program and other amazing fields.
The day is coming when a truly serious shooter is going to strip Dow his gun, and find a tool mark, and start a thread hollering about his brand new thing having shoddy parts.
Fifty years ago, most of the people I knew would have rather died than own a foreign made gun other than a war relic.
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I suppose at 59 years of age I could possibly be considered an old timer I am set in some of my ways. I prefer carbon steel in my knives and after owning a Glock you couldn't give me another one.....Well you could but I'd just sell it. As for MIM, I couldn't care less. I haven't had a MIM part fail yet and don't expect to.
I am set in some of my ways. I prefer carbon steel in my knives and after owning a Glock you couldn't give me another one.....Well you could but I'd just sell it. As for MIM, I couldn't care less. I haven't had a MIM part fail yet and don't expect to.I would guess that it is less the passage of time than the population on this board that makes polymer and MIM an issue. This is a board of enthusiastic consumers afflicted with specific and sometimes self-consciously developed tastes.
Some people can't order a cup of coffee without using lots of italian, and it ends up costing them a few dollars. Some people aren't satisfied with a scotch unless it comes with a charming story about the family that has made it for centuries. Others don't think much of a bottle of wine unless it costs more than my first car.
Meanwhile, a lot of the rest of the world chugs along with grocery store coffee, cheap liquor and serviceable wine, no less happy for the experience.
FrankenMauser --
Not the same. KIAs are better. I've owned several (new) Fords over the years. I currently own three KIAs I bought new. Not one problem with the KIAs (oldest is 2007). Fords -- various problems. So, yeah, I think that KIAs are better than Fords in the same class.
dakota1911
New member
I think DW would be the cheapest with no MIM. I think Ed Brown does not have any MIM parts either.
I am amazed that this tired old subject has any legs whatever. MIM parts are probably better than hand-made fitted parts. MIM parts can be made to highly precise specifications and thus are appropriate for modern, digitally controlled manufacturing processes. I'll bet that not one active shooter around here has ever had an MIM part fail. I know I haven't.