Am I insane to even consider this one ? The 1911 search continues ...

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Sarge43

New member
I recently picked up a PT1911 and after dumping the horribly fitting grips for some that actually feel good, I took it out shooting. Bear in mind that I picked this one up used (new really - still had packing grease on the ambi safeties. If it had seen 20 rounds go down range I'd be surprised.) and only doled out $300 cash for it. For the money, I was impressed with it short term. It shot quite well and the standard features that it came with were very nice (frontstrap checkering etc). The trigger was pretty dang good compared to what I expected. Overall, I'm happy with it as many others are. Especially for what I picked it up for. I will not carry it, it's strictly for fun.
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For the money you're talking about, I personally would go for the Dan Wesson CBOB. It's probably the best "bang for the buck" weapon available today. Solid platform with fit and finish way above it's price range. More accurate than you or I can take full advantage of. Backed by great customer service if it's ever needed. No MIM parts. Let's face it, it's just plain sexy. Plus if you ever HAD to sell it, it's going to hold value much better than the Taurus will. I love mine! The only thing I would change if I had the chance is putting an alloy frame on it instead of the full steel. You can pick these up new for less than $900. Night sights, frontstrap checkering, the list goes on and you can check it out for yourself. I would give it serious consideration before making a final decision.
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rellascout

Moderator
It appears he used a production line gun for his test but I assume that doesn't mean it couldn't have been a ringer. But that certainly begs the question ... what did they do to it to make it so good and if they could do it ... why can't it be duplicated?
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Because Taurus is a volume model with a a production model based on producing as many guns as fast as humanly possible using cnc machining and MIM parts.......

Again its like the difference between a high end sedan built by Hyundai and a high end sedan build by BMW.... They both are going to look great rolling off the dealer lot its down the road that is the real test.

The Taurus is value gun. You get 80% of a $2000 Les Baer out of the box. The longer you shoot it and the more you put it through the gun the better the Baer will get the worse the Taurus will get. Its a marathon not a sprint.

You have made it perfectly clear you like the Taurus. You have been sold on it and you see it as a value. Why are you still asking questions. If what you have read and been told is true and you feel the need to refute opinions which contradict your believe I will ask again why are you still asking the question.

Call Wild and ask him. Do a search on his user name and you will see what he has said in the past about them. My guess is that you will not change your mind. Enjoy the Taurus
 
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rellascout

Moderator
You seem to be actually getting angry over this and the sarcasm is dually noted.
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Not angry at all. I just find it odd that you ask a question I have given you a more in depth answer than anyone else and you continue to dismiss me. I see posts like this all the time. The reality is that you want to hear what you want to hear.

If you think everyone uses MIM parts you are mistaken and you need to do some research. How many MIM parts were in that Les Baer you were looking at? How about Dan Wessons like the Valor or CBOB? What about Colt? Wilson? EGW? Rock River? Bartso using MIM to make barrels these days?

Why not call up Novak, C&S and other quality 1911 parts makers and ask how many of their parts are MIM?
 
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LouPran

New member
Thanks Sarge ... that's a beauty Dan Wesson ... I'll have to give them a look. :)

I'm not at all sold on the Taurus ... I was surprised the GLGuy was so hot on it.

I only own 2 Taurus and they're both revolvers which have proven to be excellent , but entirely different animals to be sure.
 
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passintime

New member
Rella,

Since you seem knowledgeable, what do you think the best 1911 in the sub 1k range is?

Lou,

If money as you say is not an option, there are better choices than the Taurus is what I think it boils down to. I am far from a gun snob, as the majority of my guns are sub-$600 ones (CZ's). If I had a larger budget and didn't mind spending it, I'd invest a couple hundred more and get something that is built to last and will hold value.
 
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rellascout

Moderator
I gave 2 right off the bat....

In the sub $1000 range in a New gun here is my short list.

Commander length Dan Wesson CBOB It has one MIM part on the entire gun. Paid less than $700 for mine pre CZ. Fit and finish on par with semi custom guns. More accurate than I will ever be. Easy to carry and the Bobtail fits my hand well. I like its looks the only issue I have with it is that it is heavy due to its all steel construction. I carry it anyway. Runs around $900

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The Commander Classic Bobtail is a 4.25” series 70 style, commander sized 1911 featuring a stainless steel frame and forged stainless steel slide. Like all Dan Wesson 1911s, Commander models incorporate top quality parts from the best names in the industry.

· Round top slide with fixed 3 dot tritium night sights
· Forged, one piece match grade barrel and bushing.
· Ed Brown Bobtail mainspring housing
· 20 LPI checkered front strap
· Hand polished flat surfaces with contrasting bead blasted rounds
· Beveled magwell
· All sharp edges dehorned by hand
· Lowered and flared ejection port
· Ed Brown memory groove grip safety
· Ed Brown slide stop
· Tactical, extended thumb safety
· Commander style match hammer
· Match grade sear
· Aluminum trigger with stainless bow
· Extended serrated magazine catch
· Wolff springs used exclusively
· Diamond checkered coco-bolo grips
· Tuned, machined, internal extractor
· Test fired for reliability
· 34 ounces unloaded

Next up is the new Colt Combat Elite 2 tone..... Runs around $900 This is an O series gun. Those who buy Colt knows what that means. It is a custom shop piece at a sub $1000 price and yes I like the Pony. :)

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If you are a gun collector or an avid shooter the Colt Combat Elite Pistol would be a great addition to your arsenal. The Colt Combat Elite Pistol goes back to its original design and is styled for the combat style match shooter. Fitting comfortably in the hand the Colt Combat Elite Pistol gives you that control you need at the time of fire. The Colt Combat Elite Pistol is sure to keep you on target.

* Colt Combat Elite Pistol
* Model: 1911 Combat Elite Pistol
* Manufacturer Number: CT8011XSE
* Action: Single
* Barrel: 5 Inch
* Caliber: 45 ACP
* Capacity: 8 Round
* Grips: Rosewood
* Sights: Fixed
* Includes: 2 Magazines
* Finish: Two Tone
 
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Sturmgewehre

New member
MIM is in everything if I'm not mistaken and comprises some very strong parts in various industries.
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MIM is fine if it's properly executed. It is in everything from car engines to aircraft engines. Where you get into trouble is when MIM isn't done properly... but this is true of manufacturing in general.

Taurus isn't known for consistent quality control. They have good and very bad days. Their quality varies wildly, and this makes me a little concerned about the overall quality of their MIM parts. Lots of people have reported problems with their safeties as an example.

The frames and slides seem to be of good quality which means if you swap out the guts you will likely have a decent pistol. For me, this is too much work... I would rather buy something that's built right from the factory vs. having to replace all of the fire controls for peace of mind.
 
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Delaware_Dan

New member
To clarify, my local shop X-Ring Supply (302) 737 6575 gets them back for repair regularly. Do you have a good business relationship with your shop? (bought/sold a couple guns there?) If the answer is no then they are probably lying to you so you will buy the gun. It sucks, but I have seen it done at a couple of shops. I have an exelent relationship with my shop hence the honesty.
 
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LouPran

New member
Not angry at all. I just find it odd that you ask a question I have given you a more in depth answer than anyone else and you continue to dismiss me. I see posts like this all the time. The reality is that you want to hear what you want to hear.
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I think this pretty much says it all.

No offense , but you gave me a lot of opinion as well and told me to talk to someone else as all your opinion comes 3rd party.

Further you're being very defensive about your comments.

If the Taurus uses a lot of junk parts ... that would be a big problem to me ... but MIM by itself is not junk and can be VERY strong done properly. Forging is stronger but not always necessary. It really depends on the part. It IS more expensive to produce.

Your mention of CNC makes no sense as it's hardly an indication of a cheap part. If the CNC programming was done correctly it simply means the parts are made to exacting tolerances that can be repeated consistently in production.

At any rate ... one thing I can certainly see is the stigma to the brand Taurus ... that much you've clearly demonstrated.
 
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LouPran

New member
Sturmgewehre

MIM is fine if it's properly executed. It is in everything from car engines to aircraft engines. Where you get into trouble is when MIM isn't done properly... but this is true of manufacturing in general.

Taurus isn't known for consistent quality control. They have good and very bad days. Their quality varies wildly, and this makes me a little concerned about the overall quality of their MIM parts. Lots of people have reported problems with their safeties as an example.

The frames and slides seem to be of good quality which means if you swap out the guts you will likely have a decent pistol. For me, this is too much work... I would rather buy something that's built right from the factory vs. having to replace all of the fire controls for peace of mind.
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I agree with this and if that's the case ... it's definitely off my list.
 
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LouPran

New member
Delaware_Dan
To clarify, my local shop X-Ring Supply (302) 737 6575 gets them back for repair regularly. Do you have a good business relationship with your shop? (bought/sold a couple guns there?) If the answer is no then they are probably lying to you so you will buy the gun. It sucks, but I have seen it done at a couple of shops. I have an exelent relationship with my shop hence the honesty.
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I felt the guy was being pretty honest about it and I do have a good relationship with them. My self and my son have dealt with this particular gentleman regularly.

He was critical of the earlier batches of PT-1911's but said since , they have geared up to produce the 1911's at one of the Brazil factories and consistency had greatly improved. He was also critical of the "blued" versions which he said do not wear well as whatever process they use was not very good.
 
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David Armstrong

Moderator
So is the opinion thus far that the Gun Guy and Bane are wrong about the Taurus?
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don't know the Gun Guy but I do know Mike Bane, and Bane knows his stuff. I also know that there is a lot of bad Taurus feeling out there, much of it a carryover from a few decades back when Taurus really wan't much on quality. The current Taurus product is about as good as anybody else makes in that price range, and better than some. As for reliability, over the last couple of years I've seen more Springfields and Kimbers come back needing fixing than I have Taurus. Another relatively low-priced make we have had good luck with is Rock Island Arms. My $.02.
 
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LouPran

New member
Not to totally change directions here but ... what's the thoughts on this Colt. It wasn't at his store , but he could get it in for me if I wanted it.

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$1500
Colt Special Combat Pistol .45 ACP
# Cal./Gauge: .45 ACP
# Barrel(s): 5"
# Weight: 2 Lbs 8 ozs
# Sights/Scope: Adjustable Target
# Trigger(s): Long Aluminum
# Stock: Black Plastic Colt Factory Grips
# Metal Condition: As New
# Wood Condition: As New
# Bore Condition: As New

Limited run Colt Custom Shop pistol, outstanding example of a modern 1911 style handgun beautifully detailed and finshed with all the bells and whistles. Aluminum trigger, beavertail grip safety, adjustable sights, checkered mainspring housing, large magwell, extended ambidexterous safety levers and special black Colt factory grips. Pistol is very smooth and tight - included test target illustrates amazing accuracy potential. Handgun appears to have been fired very little, possibly test rounds only.

I'm guessing this one would be a collector that wouldn't garner to many negative opinions.
 
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LouPran

New member
David Armstrong

don't know the Gun Guy but I do know Mike Bane, and Bane knows his stuff. I also know that there is a lot of bad Taurus feeling out there, much of it a carryover from a few decades back when Taurus really wan't much on quality. The current Taurus product is about as good as anybody else makes in that price range, and better than some. As for reliability, over the last couple of years I've seen more Springfields and Kimbers come back needing fixing than I have Taurus. Another relatively low-priced make we have had good luck with is Rock Island Arms. My $.02.
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Thanks David ... Bane seemed legit and I was very surprised what a glowing review he gave the gun.

Whether is was a ringer or one off the production line , I wouldn't want to bet on , but he certainly seemed to think this gun was a performer.

Until last night I really hadn't thought much about trying a Taurus. And Kimber seems to have gone south in anything but their more expensive lines.

I wish someone would get a bunch of them off the shelf and do some torture testing to see what breaks.
 
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