Am I insane to even consider this one ? The 1911 search continues ...

[LouPran]

As per my other thread I've ruled out the overpriced $2300 Baer or the $1400 Colt.

Neither are worth the money , from what I can tell.

Here's the insane part ... the Gun Library salesman , who's a pretty knowledgeable guy IMO from the time I spent with him who appraises trade in firearms and certainly seemed to have more knowledge about them than I , tells me to look at this new 1911 they've got. He goes in back and returns with a TAURUS box.

Now whenever Taurus is brought up , it seems to be a love hate relationship with the common theme being "They're OK for the money" He produces a beautiful looking (to my eyes) SS full sized 1911 with what appear to be custom Taurus grips. I think to myself ... I'm going in the opposite direction as I wanted to look at a Springfield Rob Latham 1911 they had and I was not impressed. (something about someone elses name on it just bugs me and I felt like the money was going to the endorsement.)

This is a picture of the gun with the grips I mention.

Very cool looking grips I must say ... the pic doesn't do them justice.

The look and overall feel was IMO very nice. Very tight feel to it.

He told me these are highly UNDERRATED and he's had several at the range along with much more expensive 1911's and they compare very favorably. If I could live with the stigma that follows the name Taurus , that this was easily comparable to much more expensive 1911's.

$699 for this model which after looking at that Colt and even the Baer seems like one heck of a bargain if it's a good shooter.

I'd love to get some thoughts on this.

Further ... I get home last night and tried my best to find good articles on the Taurus 1911 and one in particular struck me ... as it was very similar thinking to what the GunLibraryGuy stated ...

The article can be found here ... http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish/droppedshot/17.shtml

It's IMO one of the most comprehensive articles to be found on this gun.

I don't know who Michael Bane is , or if his reviews are credible , but this opinion really struck me as bold ... he compares the Taurus to his $3500 Kimber Custom shop gun made specifically for him and states ...
------------------------------
Let's talk feel. Interestingly enough, both me and my shooting partner, who's a hardcore IPSC speed demon, thought the Taurus "shot light." I've tried to explain this before, and it sounds hinky, but sometimes 1911s achieve a level of synchronicity and become more than the sum of their parts. My shooting partner thought the Taurus felt a lot more like his .40 SV racegun than a single-stack .45. You EXPECT synchronicity for $3500; it's a very pleasant surprise to find it in a pistol that cost a buck less than $600.

By the end of the afternoon I was running "failure drills," the politically correct name for the good ole Rhodesian — "2 in the belly/1 in the head/I'm alive/And you're dead" — as fast with the Taurus as I could with the Kimber.

Bottom line...is the Taurus as good as a custom 1911? No...a master's touch is just that.

Is the Taurus an amazing value? Abso-freaking-lutely! The fact that an out-of-the-box Taurus was able to run with the Kimber at all says a bunch. I would be happy to take teh Taurus to an IPSC or an IDPA match as it sets, right out of the box.
------------------------------

I looked for any sign that Taurus spends a lot of money with his sight and didn't find it.

I would love some opinions.

Thanks

.

 

[Sixer]

Just buy a Dan Wesson CBOB and call it good!

 

[rellascout]

When you go up say $300 to a Dan Wesson CBOB or a New Colt Combat Elite you will be much better off in the long run. You do not have to spend $2000 to get a good 1911. The Taurus is a well a Taurus. It is what it is. There are lots of guys who own them and like them but IMHO they are hit or miss. The one you are holding might be tight. It might be great but the next one out of the factory might be spotty.

The blued guns finish is terrible. Tons of wear very quickly. Seen 6 month old guns that look worse then a 3 year old carry gun from other better manufactures. This is not an issue with the stainless but to me it speaks to the quality of the work.

Again why pay $600 when you can get a Colt like the one below for $300 more. I would take the Dan Wesson CBOB over the Taurus too. I carry mine and love it. Well built with quality parts, almost no powder parts, and it fits my hand.

Right now if I were in the market for another 1911 this one would be it.

 

[LouPran]

So is the opinion thus far that the Gun Guy and Bane are wrong about the Taurus?

Have either of you handled or shot one before ?

 

[Delaware_Dan]

My local shop gets about one back each month for repairs, and the turn around time is about 2 months. That said, I would save an extra couple of bucks and buy a Dan Wesson, you will be much happier with it. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[rellascout]

I have not shot one but handled many. Why shoot a Taurus when you can shoot a les baer, DW, Colt or even springer?

They are fine out of the box budget guns. If your top end is $600 and you like it fine. IMHO if I wanted a cheap 1911 I would buy a RIA tactical. It is less than the Taurus and it will run just as well in combat/defense situations.

If you are looking for something with some style Taurus is not it. It will have almost no long term or resell value. Unlike the Colt or a DW which can be sold if needed quickly and for not much less than you paid.

The Taurus is a cheap gun made to look like a more expensive gun. It is not out of the box that worries me as much as what will the gun be like in a year after heavy shooting. What will it be like in 5? Most reviewers get good examples. They get the best of the bunch not the average gun in the distribution chain. I mean look at the picture you posted. I cannot stand seeing a gap between the beavetail and the frame. The ring hammer they use not only looks like crap it is almost non-functional because of its design and size. It is completely out of portion with the rest of the gun IMHO. The other thing to consider is that 99% of the parts on the Taurus are not named parts but are part made to look like higher end parts. Can anyone confirm that they are still even using real straight 8 sights?

P.S. I love people who ask these questions get an answer that they do not want to hear and it takes about 2 seconds for them to post have you shot the guns with negative emoticons. If you do not want the answer do not ask the question. If you trust the gun at your gun shot then go with his statements vs. the unknown of the internet. If you don't trust him then why bring him up?

 

[LouPran]

I always read that shops are getting them back , but every time I ask a shop about that they say it's not the case. I asked the gunlibrary guy that last night , if they have problems with them and he said emphatically, NO. They sell a ton of them and he can count on 1 hand how many have come back.

Are they lying?

Is it 1 Taurus a month or 1 1911?

I know every manufacturer has it's lemons on occasion. Statistically speaking if they sell 100 Taurus a month and get back 1 ... is it any worse than say Kimber selling 50 and getting one back every 2 months?

I could find only 3 articles on the Taurus and all 3 were VERY complimentary of the pistol.

 

[RickB]

When the Taurus was announced, it was going to be priced at $400. They apparently hit the stores at something over $500, and when they got to the west coast they were $700. My interest in the gun would be proportional to the price, and $700 is as much too high as were the Baer and Colt prices.

 

[LouPran]

I have not shot one but handled many. Why shoot a Taurus when you can shoot a les baer, DW, Colt or even springer?

They are fine out of the box budget guns. If your top end is $600 and you like it fine. IMHO if I wanted a cheap 1911 I would buy a RIA tactical. It is less than the Taurus and it will run just as well in combat/defense situations.

If you are looking for something with some style Taurus is not it. It will have almost no long term or resell value. Unlike the Colt or a DW which can be sold if needed quickly and for not much less than you paid.

The Taurus is a cheap gun made to look like a more expensive gun. It is not out of the box that worries me as much as what will the gun be like in a year after heavy shooting. What will it be like in 5? Most reviewers get good examples. They get the best of the bunch not the average gun in the distribution chain. I mean look at the picture you posted. I cannot stand seeing a gap between the beavetail and the frame. The ring hammer they use not only looks like crap it is almost non-functional because of its design and size. It is completely out of portion with the rest of the gun IMHO. The other thing to consider is that 99% of the parts on the Taurus are not named parts but are part made to look like higher end parts. Can anyone confirm that they are still even using real straight 8 sights?

P.S. I love people who ask these questions get an answer that they do not want to hear and it takes about 2 seconds for them to post have you shot the guns with negative emoticons. If you do not want the answer do not ask the question. If you trust the gun at your gun shot then go with his statements vs. the unknown of the internet. If you don't trust him then why bring him up?

I'm trying to have an actual conversation about this , not simply be told they're junk by the first guy with an opinion that completely contradicts what 3 professionals say about the gun.

By your last comment I take it the answer is no ... you haven't handled or shot one.

As for wear and tear ... I'd be very interested to know if it's going to break down or not.

Is there any actual evidence of this you can point me to?

How is the Taurus cheap but made to look expensive? Is the Stainless steel cheap grade? Is there some illusion I'm missing in it's construct? It's supposedly forged frame , slide and a hammered stainless barrel. What are the cheap parts?

I'm looking for facts , not just opinions.

Holding it side by side to a $1400 Kimber and a few others , it certainly didn't feel like the lessor gun.

Looking it over and comparing it to the others , it was easily as tight or tighter feeling and fit and finish was excellent from what I could see.

 

[Sixer]

So is the opinion thus far that the Gun Guy and Bane are wrong about the Taurus?

Nope, that's their opinion so it's hard to say they are wrong. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would disagree, and plenty of people that would agree. The two sides could argue in circles all day, but no one is going to "win" a disagreement in opinion.

I will say that you probably wont hear the same argument about a Colt, DW, etc.

Have either of you handled or shot one before ?

Yep, and in my limited experience I have never had an issue with a Taurus. I still wouldn't buy one though. I've heard too many horror stories from people that have really put them to work.

I think one factor that stands out is the future value of the gun. Twenty years from now do you want to own an old Taurus or an old Colt? I have a feeling the old Colt would be worth the extra money today.

Just my opinion

 

[rellascout]

Think of it this way. Who is writing the articles and who is telling you they don't get any back.

9 times out of 10 its guys, companies or trainers who make money off of selling or endorsing guns..... Are you going to bash a hot seller?

Again it seems like you want to believe what you have been told about the Taurus 1911. If you trust the source go with it.

I personally have a very good relationship with WildAlsaska here on the board and he sells them in his shop to those who want them but I can guarantee if I call him and say send me a Taurus he will ask why I want one and will tell me to pick something else. I will listen because I trust Ken and he has never steered me wrong.

Its all about the source of your info. Get to know your dealer. Develop some trust and you will not have to rely on 3rd parties interweb opinions as much.

 

[LouPran]

Can anyone confirm that they are still even using real straight 8 sights?

The rear sight said HEINIE on it.

 

[LouPran]

Yep, and in my limited experience I have never had an issue with a Taurus. I still wouldn't buy one though. I've heard too many horror stories from people that have really put them to work.

I think one factor that stands out is the future value of the gun. Twenty years from now do you want to own an old Taurus or an old Colt? I have a feeling the old Colt would be worth the extra money today.

Just my opinion

you're probably very right about that.

That was the one caveat from the Gun Library Guy.

He was adamant about them being worth the money , but the name recognition to holding it's value wasn't there.

Then again ... I'm not buying a 1911 for it's investment value.

I'm pretty sure my XD45 won't hold it's "value" either ... but I love it just the same.

Obviously there's more to owning a 1911 than simple gun ownership.

 

[cjw3cma]

Buy the DARN Taurus and be happy that you did. Some folks will only ever utter the word COLT or some ultra custom brand when you ask a specific question. The bottom line is if you like the way the gun feels in your hand, it shoots point of aim and has a good factory warranty - BUY IT. With the current rebate it is a deal. Do it. Buy it. Tell us how it shoots.

 

[ZeSpectre]

My initial take on the PT-1911 can be found on this thread
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2492306&postcount=16

I'll be straight with you though, I eventually sold the PT-1911 because I had such a string of trouble with other Taurus guns that I found myself wondering, not "if" the gun would break, but "when" the gun would break. Maybe the answer to that would be "never" but I've lost all confidence with Taurus firearms.

I switched over to a Charles Daly and have been very happy with it.

 

[passintime]

I agree with cjw. I assure you this thread would have a different tone had you just bought the thing, and posted a picture saying "Look at my new gun".

 

[rellascout]

I'm trying to have an actual conversation about this , not simply be told they're junk by the first guy with an opinion that completely contradicts what 3 professionals say about the gun.

By your last comment I take it the answer is no ... you haven't handled or shot one.

As for wear and tear ... I'd be very interested to know if it's going to break down or not.

Is there any actual evidence of this you can point me to?

How is the Taurus cheap but made to look expensive? Is the Stainless steel cheap grade? Is there some illusion I'm missing in it's construct? It's supposedly forged frame , slide and a hammered stainless barrel. What are the cheap parts?

I'm looking for facts , not just opinions.

Holding it side by side to a $1400 Kimber and a few others , it certainly didn't feel like the lessor gun.

Looking it over and comparing it to the others , it was easily as tight or tighter feeling and fit and finish was excellent from what I could see.

Look up MIM parts on 1911s. Guess what the Taurus is full of them. They have taken the more expensive pistols and re-engineered them with powder parts.

Now MIM in and of itself is not a terrible thing but if it fails its failure is catastrophic. The safety leaver does not just break is sheers off into two pieces.

The quality of the steel can be an issue. Different manufactures will use different steel. A Norinco which is a cheap 1911 is tougher than most 1911's steel. It will last longer but is tougher on tools used to cut them so most manufacturers choose different steel.

You are mistaking out of the box looks and feel for long term durability and reliability. Take Dpms AR15 it might look just as nice and the Colt 6920 when you take them out of the box but that is not the real test of AR 15 is it? No the real test is 20,000 + rounds later when the Colt as run perfectly and still shoots lights out and the DPMS is rattle trap.

You do not have to own one or shoot one everyday to understand exactly what Taurus is offering in this gun. It sounds like you made up your mind and all you want is a go for it post to make you feel better about the Taurus. So here you go.....

ITS A GREAT GUN. THERE ARE NO BETTER 1911'S ON THE MARKET. THOSE GRIPS ARE SO COOL. RUN DO NOT WALK AND GET IT TODAY........

 

[LouPran]

rellascout

Think of it this way. Who is writing the articles and who is telling you they don't get any back.

9 times out of 10 its guys, companies or trainers who make money off of selling or endorsing guns..... Are you going to bash a hot seller?

Again it seems like you want to believe what you have been told about the Taurus 1911. If you trust the source go with it.

I personally have a very good relationship with WildAlsaska here on the board and he sells them in his shop to those who want them but I can guarantee if I call him and say send me a Taurus he will ask why I want one and will tell me to pick something else. I will listen because I trust Ken and he has never steered me wrong.

Its all about the source of your info. Get to know your dealer. Develop some trust and you will not have to rely on 3rd parties interweb opinions as much.

I'd love to hear some imput from Wildalaska on this as to why he doesn't like them. If he's a smith , I'd wager he's taken them apart and gotten to know them pretty well.

The gun library guy doesn't even deal in new guns ... it's all used stuff.

The Springfield R.Latham he showed me was a $2000 gun. The name engraved on the grips and slide bugs me , but I have no doubt it was a good 1911.

The Michael Bane guy , I have no idea who he is ... shocking he'd compare it to his own personal Custom Kimber that cost $3500 and compare it favorably.

Taurus must have really worked his gun over.

I thought this comment was also interesting by Bane ...

Into this comfy market comes the Brazilian powerhouse with a really trick gun. Two SHOT Shows ago there were a couple of prototypes — forged frames and slides, name parts, tight fit. I thought the gun had potentially; more importantly, after SHOT, I got calls from a couple of the best 1911 plumbers in the country, wanting to know what I thought about the Taurus. Both of them had examined the gun at length, and were VERY impressed.

The question, of course, was whether Taurus could deliver the proto gun at the proclaimed MSRP of $599. I told Bob Morrison, the majordomo of Taurus, that I was willing to wait for one of the production line versions, the PT-1911 to see what would be coming onto the market, and he agreed.

It appears he used a production line gun for his test but I assume that doesn't mean it couldn't have been a ringer. But that certainly begs the question ... what did they do to it to make it so good and if they could do it ... why can't it be duplicated?

 

[rellascout]

Holding it side by side to a $1400 Kimber and a few others , it certainly didn't feel like the lessor gun.

Looking it over and comparing it to the others , it was easily as tight or tighter feeling and fit and finish was excellent from what I could see.

And I can almost guarantee that after 5,000 rounds it will not be nearly as tight and it will not be as pretty. Do you even know what MIM parts are? Here is a perfect example of the issues with MIM parts specific to Taurus posted over on the 1911fourm

The Ejector is MIM and is held in with a pin and Loctite.

The Sear is MIM and the surface that mates with the hammer is more round polished. The surface should be flat with two angles.

The Hammer is MIM.

I found some burrs along the hammer strut.

The series 80 safety parts look to be a copy of Colt's.

The Mainspring housing is MIM and extremely tight fitted to the frame.

The Thumb safety is MIM as is the grip safety. The thumb safety is also round polished on the fitting pad instead of flat filed.

Please post a range report after shooting your new Taurus.....

 

[LouPran]

Look up MIM parts on 1911s. Guess what the Taurus is full of them. They have taken the more expensive pistols and re-engineered them with powder parts.

Now MIM in and of itself is not a terrible thing but if it fails its failure is catastrophic. The safety leaver does not just break is sheers off into two pieces.

The quality of the steel can be an issue. Different manufactures will use different steel. A Norinco which is a cheap 1911 is tougher than most 1911's steel. It will last longer but is tougher on tools used to cut them so most manufacturers choose different steel.

You are mistaking out of the box looks and feel for long term durability and reliability. Take DMPS AR15 it might look just as nice and the Colt 6920 when you take them out of the box but that is not the real test of AR 15 is it? No the real test is 20,000 + rounds later when the Colt as run perfectly and still shoots lights out and the DPMS is rattle trap.

You do not have to own one or shoot one everyday to understand exactly what Taurus is offering in this gun. It sounds like you made up your mind and all you want is a go for it post to make you feel better about the Taurus. So here you go.....

ITS A GREAT GUN. THERE ARE NO BETTER 1911'S ON THE MARKET. THOSE GRIPS ARE SO COOL. RUN DO NOT WALK AND GET IT TODAY........

You seem to be actually getting angry over this and the sarcasm is dually noted.

But all I'm reading from your post is still opinion and speculation.

MIM is in everything if I'm not mistaken and comprises some very strong parts in various industries.

I haven't made my mind up ...

It's not about money either as I can afford just about any 1911 within reason and am even considering a Baer FBI/SWAT prototype that's $4500.

Like I said ... I was actually very surprised this guy brought this gun out as I was looking at much more expensive stuff and he brought it out like it was a well kept secret .

You obviously are the one that's made up their mind. Every part on the Taurus could be high grade forged steel and you'd still call it junk.