A Discussion on PCC's.
- Thread starter Rojack79
- Start date
shootingblanks00
New member
44caliberkid
New member
You could buy a 5.56 AR, then buy a 9mm upper and Colt style magazine adapter, a Colt style 9mm magazine, and shoot both. Swapping from one to the other would just take a few minutes.
While I prefer the Blitzkrieg hydraulic buffers for blowback PCCs, you can safely use one of the heavier bolts and a JP XP flatwire spring with a standard AR buffer. In fact, some of the "weighted" bolts, the weight can be changed to tune the cycle speed. I find it better to have more weight in the bolt than to put some in the buffer, for long term durability.
44caliberkid
New member
Maxim Defense showed a roller delayed buffer for blow back operated ARs at the NRA show. Looks similar to a JP captured spring buffer and is just a drop in. They didn’t say when it would be available.
Hmm, that is interesting. Could possibly be used for .40 and 10mm if done correctly. If I was Maxim, I'd rename it and patent it if it really works.
YankeeIronSights
New member
Like others have mentioned, buy an AR in 556/223 caliber first. Every gun collection is incomplete without one.
Then save for a Kalashnikof K9 (9mm). Although it uses proprietary mags, it is a blast at the range. Reliable, accurate, easy to operate and maintain.
The list price is a bit over a $1,000.00 but I am sure that you can shop and buy a used one for under that amount.
Go to the manufacturer's website and check the product line. They also offer many cool accessories for this model.
https://kalashnikov-usa.com/shop/products/firearms/
I have owned a variety of PCCs over the years and the K9 has become my favorite. If you live in a free state, the 30 round mags will make you smile at the range. Fun to shoot with very very little recoil.
Check the YouTube video:
https://youtu.be/PWj1xjzvhrc
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Then save for a Kalashnikof K9 (9mm). Although it uses proprietary mags, it is a blast at the range. Reliable, accurate, easy to operate and maintain.
The list price is a bit over a $1,000.00 but I am sure that you can shop and buy a used one for under that amount.
Go to the manufacturer's website and check the product line. They also offer many cool accessories for this model.
https://kalashnikov-usa.com/shop/products/firearms/
I have owned a variety of PCCs over the years and the K9 has become my favorite. If you live in a free state, the 30 round mags will make you smile at the range. Fun to shoot with very very little recoil.
Check the YouTube video:
https://youtu.be/PWj1xjzvhrc
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's just a possibility. But my contact at Ruger is pretty high up the food chain. It better take 1911 mags if they make it.
Considering its Ruger wouldn't that be "SR1911" mags?
I'm sorry to say, I don't know the history of how my prior profession exactly moved to the AR15/carbine 5.56. I do know there were several considerations/issues which were being discussed.
Historically, some departments had the HK MP5 subguns, whether in 9mm/.40/10mm as I recall. Many of the departments/agencies at the very least had the 12 gauge shotguns as long guns (most probably still do).
The knowledge I'm lacking is, somehow, the 5.56/.223 AR15 carbines took off while the 9mm/.40/.45ACP subguns pretty much died out (again, in LE use). The Ruger Mini-14 5.56mm had a small following but the AR15 platform really got the market with many brands available (the AR15 might have been an open/no-patent-limiting design).
Ballistically, it's my understanding the 5.56/.223 may be good for both shorter and longer distances vs. pistol caliber carbines, but this is just more my ignorance or what I remember being told.
If anybody out there might elaborate, I'd appreciate it.
Historically, some departments had the HK MP5 subguns, whether in 9mm/.40/10mm as I recall. Many of the departments/agencies at the very least had the 12 gauge shotguns as long guns (most probably still do).
The knowledge I'm lacking is, somehow, the 5.56/.223 AR15 carbines took off while the 9mm/.40/.45ACP subguns pretty much died out (again, in LE use). The Ruger Mini-14 5.56mm had a small following but the AR15 platform really got the market with many brands available (the AR15 might have been an open/no-patent-limiting design).
Ballistically, it's my understanding the 5.56/.223 may be good for both shorter and longer distances vs. pistol caliber carbines, but this is just more my ignorance or what I remember being told.
If anybody out there might elaborate, I'd appreciate it.
44caliberkid
New member
Yesterday I watched a YouTube video calling for Ruger to bring back the Deerfield 44 magnum carbine. I think those would sell almost as good as the 9mm PCC. Maybe offer it in 357 also. Maybe Henry should have gone that route instead of 9mm.
Reliability and lethality are two big factors. There are not a lot of shootings with 9mm PCCs to look at, in terms of effectiveness between a 9mm handgun and a .223 Carbine. Most ballistics experts will argue about the nuances of caliber stopping power effectiveness. But in reality, there are a lot of variables and when the practicality is looked at, a .223 with a proper bullet is about 3 times more effective at stopping a threat than a 9mm handgun (all things being equal and not a perfect handgun shot). When you add 30% more energy to that pistol bullet, you don't close that gap, but you do cut into it. When you add in the factor that a PCC is, on average, about 4 times more accurate than a 9mm pistol, you again, cut that gap, but still not closed. The sub-gun training, by most departments was sub-par.
Blowback 9mm PCCs, in general, are less reliable than .223 Carbines. They also need more cleaning and maintenance.
From contact to 100 yards, I have very close to the same accuracy and rate of fire from a .223 Carbine and a 9mm Carbine. Past 100 yards, the 9mm falls off pretty fast, while the .223 is going to be effective past that distance. But, if you look at the engagement distance of urban police shootings, very few are past 100 yards. The 9mm offers less concussion indoors as well. Trade-offs for sure. But I believe the PCCs of today are more accurate, reliable and effective than the sub-guns of the 1980s and 1990s, by a good margin.
Ralph Allen
New member
Rojack79,
Saw that nobody said anything about the CZ Scorpion except a platform that uses their mags. Don't think CZ is still making the 9mm PCC in the Scorpion model, but if you can find one, snatch that baby up. I bought one of the early ones and have upgraded the trigger and safety selector with HB Industries parts. It runs flawlessly with anything you care to put through it. Reloads, factory standard, +P etc. The only issue I've ever had with mine were the original magazines cracking. CZ warrantied every single one of these no questions asked. Have had ZERO problems with the mags since then. Great gun.
Ralph
Saw that nobody said anything about the CZ Scorpion except a platform that uses their mags. Don't think CZ is still making the 9mm PCC in the Scorpion model, but if you can find one, snatch that baby up. I bought one of the early ones and have upgraded the trigger and safety selector with HB Industries parts. It runs flawlessly with anything you care to put through it. Reloads, factory standard, +P etc. The only issue I've ever had with mine were the original magazines cracking. CZ warrantied every single one of these no questions asked. Have had ZERO problems with the mags since then. Great gun.
Ralph
Hammerhead
New member
I've owned quite a few, 2 Marlins, Olympic 9mm AR, the original Ruger police carbine and now the Ruger PC.
All have been reliable and accurate. Love the PCCs.
All have been reliable and accurate. Love the PCCs.