Very true that's actually why I turned in my Single Action Clone chambered in 45LC. I wanted to grab a more readily available and lower cost gun and caliber. All in all in saddened to have gotten rid of my dream gun but I'm honestly very impressed with my Canik even though I still need to take it shooting. It's got a SAO trigger that's just butter and I love that!Not only is it the least expensive--it's the most available and also VERY fun to shoot out of a carbine. You won't regret it.
A Discussion on PCC's.
- Thread starter Rojack79
- Start date
Thankfully here in Arizona we have a lot of lax laws. I think if I remember correctly someone else said I'd need to make sure I register my handgun as a SBR if I get a Roni Kit for it, not sure if that still applies to PCC's but I'm kinda hoping not.The first thing you need to look at is the law where you live.
If your state is one of the ones with restrictions on magazine capacity, or on the rifles themselves, If your state does, then getting a semi auto PCC may be a moot point.
If that's not an issue, other things to look at are, what kind of thing are you looking for? A military STYLE carbine? One that is more "civilian" looking? A semi auto reproduction of an SMG?? A purpose designed PCC, or an adaptation of a different gun (such as the AR) to make it a PCC?? These are things to consider.
The intent of a pistol caliber carbine is to extend the easily usable range over what is possible using the same round fired from a handgun. The carbine has "more to hold on to" greater sight radius (iron sights) often allows optical sights, and the longer barrel gives a boost in velocity reducing drop at longer ranges. Easier to use (aim and hit accurately) at greater distances than the handgun.
I've had a couple, purpose built guns, not adaptations of larger actions to shoot pistol cartridges.
One was an Auto Ordnance M1927A1 Deluxe. Fun gun, really neat, literally a semi auto legal Tommygun. .45ACP. Heavy as hell (over 10lbs). Mine worked well (not all do, apparently) and very accurate once you mastered the spongy mush that was the trigger pull. Not practical, but lots of fun.
The other is a Calico 9mm carbine. Purpose built, unique design, some great design features, pretty light, accurate, trigger is on the stiff side but usable, and uses 50 or 100 rnd magazines.
I would choose it over any AR (unless you are going to use the AR as a multi caliber platform). I don't know if they are still in production though. Thanks to a majority of misguided morons in my state, I can no longer buy the magazines, and if the pending bill becomes law won't be able to buy the gun, either. I get to keep what I've got, though, how kind of them,.....
The Kel-Tecs are lower cost, not very stylish, but from what I've heard, they work, and if not, Kel-Tec fixes them. I have no direct personal experience with them, though.
Semi auto PCCs are high on the gun banner's hit list. Personally, I find lever gun PCC to have more practical utility in my life, good companions to my revolvers, and better performers in the game fields or pest control over the usual semi auto pistol cartridges.
Honestly I'm mostly seeing if a PCC would be a nice addition to my collection in terms of can it help preform a role my normal side arm can't and can it possibly stop me from needing an AR or would it be better to just get an AR that has multi caliber capabilities.
Hmm ok, if I do get a PCC are there really any 9mm ones that are good or are they all crap? And would I just be better off getting a Roni Conversation Kit for my Canik if that's the case?
Oh yeah, that's always been the plan, I love shooting, been doing it for almost 16 years now and have no plans on stopping anytime soon. For now I just realized I had to switch over to a more popular caliber and I'm mostly trying to see how I can make the most of it.
Ruger pc carbine. With the magpul backpacker stock, and a replacement hardened steel ejector.
Ruger PC Carbine. Alright I'll jot that down in my notes. Thank you.
Friend has one, shot it a couple times. Its his around the farm rifle. He can easily hit a possum at 75-100yds. Its a a fair bit quieter than a 223 rifle, but its just as heavy.
Was not a fan of the factory stock. The magpul backpacker stock is much better.
He said the only real issue with the gun is the ejector. If you over insert your mags it will get bent due to being softer steel. Thus the replacement hardened steel ejector.
Was not a fan of the factory stock. The magpul backpacker stock is much better.
He said the only real issue with the gun is the ejector. If you over insert your mags it will get bent due to being softer steel. Thus the replacement hardened steel ejector.
jetinteriorguy
New member
I love PCC’s and right now I’d only consider three, Ruger, Smith & Wesson, or Henry. I’m really liking the Smith, lots of nice features but it’s limited to only M&P style mags, price wise very attractive. The Ruger has a more traditional look and can adapt to a couple of the more common mags and has a solid reputation at a very nice price point. Last is the Henry, it has a very traditional look, pretty new to the market but seems to be working well, notable accuracy, can accommodate a couple different mags, but a little more on the expensive side. I’ve been shooting a Just Right Carbine for quite a few years and it’s been 100% reliable, very versatile in how you set it up, uses AR15 style controls and triggers, and can adapt to a few different mags, but has a couple drawbacks, it’s heavy and doesn’t lock back on an empty mag.
New to PCC's but have been shooting AR's for years.
Unlike MarkCO I wasn't involved in the design of the Wylde chamber, so I'm going to defer to him. However, my understanding is that they are meant to be slightly more accurate than a conventional chamber when shooting .223. And no real downside. I have a couple of AR's with Wylde chambers and have been very happy with them. As to particular brands, PSA is a good budget suggestion. Radical is also pretty budget friendly and I have one that's been without issue. However, I have seen on some of the forums where others have not been so lucky.
With respect to PCC's, as I said I'm just getting into them. Have a Foxtrot Mike PCC that's already destroyed one trigger. Just put a Geissele in it, so we'll see. I like the AR 9's (PCC that mimic the AR15 layout). But that's probably because I've been shooting AR's for so long. Recently tried a Keltec that someone lent me when my Foxtrot Mike broke. I appreciated the gesture, but hated the gun. Crappy trigger and really bizarre and awkward layout. But then I shoot lefty and it would be hard to imagine a less ambidextrous design.
I have been taking a hard look at the Grand Power Striborg. I have a Grand Power pistol and have been very impressed with the design, trigger, accuracy and reliability. The Striborg seems to be getting pretty good reviews on line, is very similar in design and function to a gun made by B&T that's three times as expensive* and looks like a bargain. I think they run $800, but frequently go on sale. And with the Striborg you have a choice of Gen 1, which is direct blowback, or Gen 3 which is a roller delayed blowback, which should be softer shooting.
* Before some B&T owner jumps on me, I said similar, not identical. There are definitely some differences in the internal operation, and I'm sure the fit and finish on the B&T is superior, but they definitely have a lot of similarities.
Unlike MarkCO I wasn't involved in the design of the Wylde chamber, so I'm going to defer to him.
However, my understanding is that they are meant to be slightly more accurate than a conventional chamber when shooting .223. And no real downside. I have a couple of AR's with Wylde chambers and have been very happy with them. As to particular brands, PSA is a good budget suggestion. Radical is also pretty budget friendly and I have one that's been without issue. However, I have seen on some of the forums where others have not been so lucky.With respect to PCC's, as I said I'm just getting into them. Have a Foxtrot Mike PCC that's already destroyed one trigger. Just put a Geissele in it, so we'll see. I like the AR 9's (PCC that mimic the AR15 layout). But that's probably because I've been shooting AR's for so long. Recently tried a Keltec that someone lent me when my Foxtrot Mike broke. I appreciated the gesture, but hated the gun. Crappy trigger and really bizarre and awkward layout. But then I shoot lefty and it would be hard to imagine a less ambidextrous design.
I have been taking a hard look at the Grand Power Striborg. I have a Grand Power pistol and have been very impressed with the design, trigger, accuracy and reliability. The Striborg seems to be getting pretty good reviews on line, is very similar in design and function to a gun made by B&T that's three times as expensive* and looks like a bargain. I think they run $800, but frequently go on sale. And with the Striborg you have a choice of Gen 1, which is direct blowback, or Gen 3 which is a roller delayed blowback, which should be softer shooting.
* Before some B&T owner jumps on me, I said similar, not identical. There are definitely some differences in the internal operation, and I'm sure the fit and finish on the B&T is superior, but they definitely have a lot of similarities.
Blowbacks are hard on triggers. Triggers that have the locking strut between the two trigger pins are preferable. I use POF triggers in mine. The rubber bumpers, locked pins, and overall design lets them live long happy lives in PCCs. Foxtrot Mike, QC10 are my preferred PCC lowers, but I have those in Frontier and KE arms lowers too, no issues at all.
Thanks for the suggestion Mark. I happened to have a blemished Geissele trigger lying around that I bought on sale. Worked great earlier this week when I test fired the gun, but only put about 50 rounds through it.
I've owned a POF 415, which I liked. Probably a Gen 1. My memory is that it had a pretty nice single stage trigger. Will have to go online to see if I can find a cheap one on sale.
Oh, and having just kind of trashed the Keltec (as a lefty and someone who's used to shooting AR's, it just didn't work for me) I opened up my e-mail to find that www.grabagun.com has them on sale for $379. Going to be tough to find a PCC for less.
I've owned a POF 415, which I liked. Probably a Gen 1. My memory is that it had a pretty nice single stage trigger. Will have to go online to see if I can find a cheap one on sale.
Oh, and having just kind of trashed the Keltec (as a lefty and someone who's used to shooting AR's, it just didn't work for me) I opened up my e-mail to find that www.grabagun.com has them on sale for $379. Going to be tough to find a PCC for less.
They are certainly reliable. But they do take a bit of getting used to for some. I had two, one set up with a RDS, better trigger, etc. I sold it. Too much for a utility gun IMHO. I have a rubber tube pad on mine, and have the stock in the furthest out position. I can still shoot it as fast, and at least twice as accurately as my most accurate pistol. But it lives, folded up, with some mags, in a roadtrip backpack.
Yes, and not at all friendly if you shoot lefty. I actually like the Foxtrot Mike, and until about a week ago it ran fine (although I've probably only put 400 rounds through it). Unfortunately, it chose to die 50 rounds into my first Steel Challenge match.
I just wrote AimSurplus, since I bought the gun from them and it came with an upgraded AimSurplus drop in trigger. Going to see if they will repair or replace it.
Also, wondering if you have any experience with Striborg Grand Power PCC's. They've gotten pretty good reviews, mags are proprietary but cheap, it's fully ambidextrous, and I'm kind of intrigued by the design. Similar enough to an AR that there shouldn't be much of a learning curve. And pretty reasonably priced.
I actually have two of their pistols - a 9mm and a .22. They are laid out exactly the same, so I can practice with low recoil, cheap .22 ammo and then easily transition to the 9mm. They have an outstanding trigger, good adjustable sights, are very soft shooting, very accurate, and the 9mm has been 100% reliable. The .22, (like many .22's) is pretty ammo sensitive and needs a slightly hotter round to cycle reliably i.e CCI Mini-mags.
Sorry, kind of gotten off track here, but I appreciate your insights and experience.
I just wrote AimSurplus, since I bought the gun from them and it came with an upgraded AimSurplus drop in trigger. Going to see if they will repair or replace it.
Also, wondering if you have any experience with Striborg Grand Power PCC's. They've gotten pretty good reviews, mags are proprietary but cheap, it's fully ambidextrous, and I'm kind of intrigued by the design. Similar enough to an AR that there shouldn't be much of a learning curve. And pretty reasonably priced.
I actually have two of their pistols - a 9mm and a .22. They are laid out exactly the same, so I can practice with low recoil, cheap .22 ammo and then easily transition to the 9mm. They have an outstanding trigger, good adjustable sights, are very soft shooting, very accurate, and the 9mm has been 100% reliable. The .22, (like many .22's) is pretty ammo sensitive and needs a slightly hotter round to cycle reliably i.e CCI Mini-mags.
Sorry, kind of gotten off track here, but I appreciate your insights and experience.
Though I've never been the greatest fan of AR type rifles, I've owned and/or operated a few. I've had personally owned Colt and Ruger ARs, and had the use of a S&W AR and M16A1 Colts. Couple years ago I acquired a Ruger AR-556 that is in your price range. I guess the Ruger is considered an entry level rifle to true AR aficionados but thus far, never a malfunction and no complaints.
As to PCCs, I've only owned a lever action .44 Mag., and more than one of the little Marlin Camp 9s over the years. I only shoot them out to a hundred yards or so, but they just work with whatever ammo I can stuff into them. In the 9, that includes 65-158 grain weights, RN Ball, FP Ball, JHPs, standard pressure, NATO, +P, etc. Were I looking at current production 9mm PCCs, I'd sure consider the Ruger, and new Henry PCC..
As to PCCs, I've only owned a lever action .44 Mag., and more than one of the little Marlin Camp 9s over the years. I only shoot them out to a hundred yards or so, but they just work with whatever ammo I can stuff into them. In the 9, that includes 65-158 grain weights, RN Ball, FP Ball, JHPs, standard pressure, NATO, +P, etc. Were I looking at current production 9mm PCCs, I'd sure consider the Ruger, and new Henry PCC..
Awesome, thank you for your help. I'll see about a Marlin Camp 9 and if there's any in my area.
Break out your checkbook. They are sporty in the price realm. I had one, and I sold it for a Colt Mag AR pattern, which I also sold. They take a S&W 59 mag, which are not all that reliable. They are plentiful though, and about $30 a pop.
All of mine are now Glock Mag fed, but I will get the New M&P at some point if they prove reliable since I have a bucket of M&P 9mm mags.
My source from Ruger tells me that it is a very good possibility that the Camp 45 could see a comeback from Marlin. I'll hope.
Ahhh, ok. Hmm if that's the case I'll see about waiting a little bit then. Can't be too careful, especially with my hunting for a new job. If I play my cards right I should have one by next month! Here's hoping honestly.