380 vs Moose

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44 AMP

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No amount of education, experience or raw intelligence cancels out stupid decisions. They may, and should. prevent the stupid choices to begin with, but once made, they are made and people live, and die, from the consequences.

I'm in the Forrest Gump school about that, I believe "stupid is as stupid does", and my life experience has only proven that observation to be generally accurate. However, I also hold to the other side of the coin, and find some wisdom in the old saying "if its stupid, but it works, its not stupid".

You may be a papered, lettered expert, or have tens of thousands of hours experience in your chosen field(s) but if you are ignorant about firearms, and make "stupid" statements in your ignorance, then, you ARE stupid. And, the entire "bigger guns are more likely to go off" is, to me, a stupid statement.

I don't know anything about the incident other than what has been reported, but I cannot help think that careful aim for a vital spot is not what the woman did when she "emptied her pistol" without any effect on the angry moose. (also apparently no reload there....) Friend shows up with "a rifle" and one shot = dead moose.

Don't know the lady in question, but I'm certain she's a better musher than I am, is an ER nurse? ok better at medicine than I am, and I'd guess she makes quite a bit more money than I do, but what she said was "stupid" and what she did wasn't much more "intelligent" as far as I can see,
 
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jetinteriorguy

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Plus we all know Eskimos never carried rifles being jostled around on a sled while hunting. Why, that would be just plain silly to do something so dangerous.
 
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TBM900

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JustJake said:
Either you read a different article or have reading-comprehension issues.

The author cites/links to (and comparatively discusses) at least six different studies. Not “anecdotal,” and the real-world case he initially discusses supports the junk-science thesis regarding the skewed pro-spray studies.

Did you follow-up and actually read his linked materials before knee-jerking a post?



:rolleyes: And you would know this, ... how?
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The "author" you keep citing has no clue how to read the data and/or is intentionally creating a self-fulfilling bias, likely to just get attention/clicks.
Reading his other "work"... he's a frigging moron.
 
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Drm50

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Why was she carrying a gun at all? If she had mindset she only wanted to scare off animals?
Most people don’t realize the size of adult moose. Where I hunt north of border locals jack light them with 22s, but random shots with any cartridge may end you up stomped. I’ve never been attacked by a moose but had one startle me. Was intent on tracking a black bear and had moose stand up out of its bed 20’ from me. Spring bear moose up the butt, moose season you got to work for them.
 
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Pumpkin

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"Bigger guns are more likely to go off" has no basis in fact.
If she was that paranoid then she should have had a .357, 44, etc. quality double action, with an empty chamber under the hammer, (although fully loaded is perfectly safe) of the appropriate ammo. An accidental .380 slug anywhere to a vital part of the body is not going to end well, especially in such an isolated area.
 
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dogtown tom

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ghbucky To enter the Iditarod requires that the musher complete at least 2 500+ miles sled dog races. This lady has more hours in the Alaskan bush than probably anyone else on these boards.
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As such she should have been cognizant of the possibility of an attack by a bear, moose or chupacabra and prepared accordingly.

Experience "in the bush" of Alaska leads many to carry large caliber handguns, carbines and know how to use them.


Calling her stupid because she isn't versed in firearms is pretty... well, stupid.
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No, its not.
Stupid was being ill prepared for the encounter with the moose. I think she's a bit wiser now.
Her ignorance about firearms is evidenced by her statement: "with all the jostling of the sled, the larger guns could easily go off....":eek:

And this particular musher is an ER nurse working on her masters degree.
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Huh?:confused:
What on earth does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
I've had my Masters degree since 1981. It doesn't endow me with knowledge outside a specific area.

Good grief. You are equating athletic, academic and occupation with freaking common sense.
If Bridgett Watkins had been accosted while running through South Central Los Angeles at midnight....would you think her 10K times, job or academic credentials would be an excuse for going unarmed? Not likely.
 
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Pumpkin

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44 AMP said:
Just idle curiosity, but I wonder why you are specifying a double action??
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At first I included single actions but after some thought (always dangerous) I reckoned a more casual firearm user might have an easier time leaving an empty chamber on a double action. Which I feel is just silly with todays modern revolvers.
A Super Blackhawk would make a fearsome club if it was out of lead!
 
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Shadow9mm

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double actions can be quicker and easier to load and re-load. as well as having the advantage of not having to manually cock the hammer each time. for example if your injured and only have 1 hand to operate the gun. Rugers run the transfer bar system as well so you can fill them up and head out.
 
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Prof Young

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Bear spray vs gun . . . .

When I was in Alaska I asked multiple people (park rangers, gun store people, hunters, fishermen etc.) about which is better, bear spray or a gun. With out fail all of them said "Have both!"

I will add that having seen a momma grizzly from about 150 yards . . . ain't hardly anything gonna stop her if she doesn't wanna stop.

Life is good.
Prof Young
 
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Pumpkin

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"I will add that having seen a momma grizzly from about 150 yards . . . ain't hardly anything gonna stop her if she doesn't wanna stop."

Not even a 10MM or a 6.5 Creedmoor?:confused:
 
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mehavey

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Animals (including humans) can be "dead" and still kill you for a considerable length of time.
...unless and/or until the CNS is compromised/shut down.
 
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reddog81

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ghbucky said:
Calling her stupid because she isn't versed in firearms is pretty... well, stupid.
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She was carrying a .380 because larger caliber guns will easily go off... It is a stupid statement. I've heard lots of really stupid firearm anecdotes but never have I heard someone make a general statement saying larger caliber guns go off easier than .380's. I can't even fathom why someone would think such nonsense.
 
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44 AMP

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double actions can be quicker and easier to load and re-load.
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While this is true,, its not the advantage you might think, if the gun isn't being used against things that shoot back.

Cocking the hammer each time is an AID to accurate shooting, and defense against animal attack is entirely about accurate shooting over everything else. I think this incident illustrates that. Shooter "emptied the gun" (a .380) without effect. That, to me, says she wasn't accurate. Rifle shooter fired one shot, killed the moose. HE was accurate.

Spray and pray might work in combat against humans, its a really poor idea against large animals, who don't duck and cover, or realize they should. Guns are not magic and ONLY hits in the right place work with reliability.
 
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Shadow9mm

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44 AMP said:
While this is true,, its not the advantage you might think, if the gun isn't being used against things that shoot back.

Cocking the hammer each time is an AID to accurate shooting, and defense against animal attack is entirely about accurate shooting over everything else. I think this incident illustrates that. Shooter "emptied the gun" (a .380) without effect. That, to me, says she wasn't accurate. Rifle shooter fired one shot, killed the moose. HE was accurate.

Spray and pray might work in combat against humans, its a really poor idea against large animals, who don't duck and cover, or realize they should. Guns are not magic and ONLY hits in the right place work with reliability.
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Having a da/sa gun does not preclude you from cocking the hammer if you choose.

While cocking the hammer for a lighter pull does aid in accuracy, it is slower than staging the trigger while firing DA.

While shot placement is always important, when dealing with a charging animal you may be lucky to hit it, let alone place your shots.

From the data we have at this point we don't know a lot of things and I cannot draw any conclusions. We only know the cartridge. We don't know how many rounds were fired. The bullet used. How many hits there were, or where they landed. We also don't know the rifle used and there are many cartridges that would drop a moose DRT, including a small caliber hunting rifle with h head shot.

Spray and pray generally does not work and is a poor tactic unless used as suppressing fire and is not what I advocating.

It's been a few years but I have had training on moving targets. Milk jug full of water on a rope, tent stake with a carabiner or pulley to keep the rope on the ground. Jug pulled towards the shooter from 20ft or so. Most people could not hit it and emptied magazines at it into the ground. Even aiming and leading my shots I struggled to get a hit. And that's about the size of the vitals you would be aiming at.
 
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Adventurer 2

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https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival/alaskan-musher-dog-team-attacked-by-moose/
A follow up story with more details and how good people came out to help.

“Everybody wants to tell me what kind of gun I should have or shouldn’t have, or how I should have or shouldn’t have shot,” Watkins says of the social media backlash. “I’m prepared now, and I was prepared then. I’m a lifelong Alaskan—I have every gun I need to kill even an elephant. It’s not that I don’t have the weapon, I’m just not going to a gunfight” when I’m running trails in February.

Had I survived this ordeal and of course Monday morning quarterbacking I’d carry my S&W Model 69 44.magnum with a box of ammo.
 
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Shadow9mm

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Good follow up. Puts things into perspective a lot better. In short 380 is probably inadequate for moose, but the choice under the circumstances can be understood.
 
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