Coltman 77
New member
Great post, end the thread. 
Why Would You Want a Colt?
- Thread starter BarryLee
- Start date
Colt just did not have the rifle I wanted, which was a NM AR15 ready for CMP/NRA Highpower competition.
So I bought an Armalite. I shot out the first barrel on it and was never disappointed.
Because of the great deals at Camp Perry Commercial Row, I bought a Bushmaster and a Rock River NM. Lots of people shot barrels out on Bushmasters so I know they were reliable. I did not like their match trigger and replaced it, but I am still using the lower on my Space Gun.
The Rock River was exceptionally tight, everything was done correctly, it functions flawlessly and shoots exceptionally well.
I am aware of people who have won the big events at Camp Perry with stock box Armalite, Bushmaster, and Rock River NM AR15's. I have met some of these people on the line and they were happy with their rifles.
I still don't see the reason to spend extra on a Colt unless you just want the name.
So I bought an Armalite. I shot out the first barrel on it and was never disappointed.
Because of the great deals at Camp Perry Commercial Row, I bought a Bushmaster and a Rock River NM. Lots of people shot barrels out on Bushmasters so I know they were reliable. I did not like their match trigger and replaced it, but I am still using the lower on my Space Gun.
The Rock River was exceptionally tight, everything was done correctly, it functions flawlessly and shoots exceptionally well.
I am aware of people who have won the big events at Camp Perry with stock box Armalite, Bushmaster, and Rock River NM AR15's. I have met some of these people on the line and they were happy with their rifles.
I still don't see the reason to spend extra on a Colt unless you just want the name.
Crow Hunter
New member
You are talking about a full sized A2 DCM/Service rifle right?
Those don't need the "upgrades" that a M4gery carbine needs. For one, they aren't fired at nearly the rate that a rifle used in a carbine class is and secondly they are rifles, not carbines.
Carbines are much tougher on the parts and much more susceptible to extraction/ejection problems because of their much more abusive operating cycle. Things that were added to the TDP when the M4 was designed back in the early 1990s help to mitigate this somewhat. (H buffer, better extractors, HD extractor springs, black extractor buffer, full auto bolt carrier groups)
Rifle gas systems have a much more gentle operating cycle and work as they were originally designed.
It really isn't an apples to apples comparison to look at how a vendors A2 rifles run and how their M4 carbine type rifles run. They don't use the same parts, although some manufacturers try to. And that is part of the problem. Non F height front sight base towers, rifle extractor springs/buffer, lightweight buffers, etc.
Congrats on the purchase! I found a Colt LE6920MP-FDE at a LGS that I have purchased several guns from. Once I picked it up and looked it over I dropped a grand down on it. For me I was looking to spend under $ 1400 out the door and after alot of research I felt the Colt was the best choice for my needs.I am looking at the Aimpoint PRO red dot and was wondering what distance it would be able to cover?
huh?
Does Colt not make the HBars any longer?
Pete
Not disagreeing at all. Just surprised. When I wanted a match ready Service Rifle, Colt had exactly what was needed. Of course, that was a while ago and there weren't all these other choices. (If memory serves, there wasn't an M4 then).
Does Colt not make the HBars any longer?
Pete
The most important thing to remember.... is that just because a gun has a certain name or logo on the side.. doesn't make it a good or bad gun.
Selling and working with guns for a long time.. specially the AR platform, I can tell you some crazy things.
I have LEO's who are absolutely pleased with a Bushmaster.. than have ran them from hell and back again with great results.
I have guys who get Colt's only to have issues and send them back to the factory for repairs.
Now the important thing to also note is some companies DO use different specs/materials ect.
If you are an absolute stickler about a gun being Mil-Spec... than you simply will pay for that set of specs.
Here's the catch. 99% of people buying AR-15's will never run them hard enough to need a full mil-spec gun.
I have personally owned a factory Colt, Bushmaster, and Stag.
The rifles I built all use BCM uppers/BCG's.
The only issue I had was my Colt wasn't perfect. I have nothing against Colt.. they make GREAT guns, but EVERYONE can make a lemon.
I understand wanting the quality for your money.. but often times depending on what my customers are going to do or planning to do with said rifle.. I will recommend something cheaper.
I have recommended even S&W Sportline AR's to people who just want a casual plinker when they aren't hunting... there's no shame in it.
Guys that are playing run and gun games, or carbine courses or looking for a duty weapon... then I recommend the higher in the food chain so to speak guns.
Like others have stated.... you need to figure out what you want or need based on what you will be doing with the firearm. If you wanna punch some paper once a month.. I wouldn't spend your whole budget on a gun.
If you want something that will see serious heavy usage, doubles as a home defense gun like mine do, then by all means.. do the research, make the investment, you wont regret it.
All of us sitting here can brow beat you with info on our favorite builds and brands and set ups for US. Only you can truly determine what YOU NEED. I try to avoid talking about brands when it comes to AR's and 1911's.
Selling and working with guns for a long time.. specially the AR platform, I can tell you some crazy things.
I have LEO's who are absolutely pleased with a Bushmaster.. than have ran them from hell and back again with great results.
I have guys who get Colt's only to have issues and send them back to the factory for repairs.
Now the important thing to also note is some companies DO use different specs/materials ect.
If you are an absolute stickler about a gun being Mil-Spec... than you simply will pay for that set of specs.
Here's the catch. 99% of people buying AR-15's will never run them hard enough to need a full mil-spec gun.
I have personally owned a factory Colt, Bushmaster, and Stag.
The rifles I built all use BCM uppers/BCG's.
The only issue I had was my Colt wasn't perfect. I have nothing against Colt.. they make GREAT guns, but EVERYONE can make a lemon.
I understand wanting the quality for your money.. but often times depending on what my customers are going to do or planning to do with said rifle.. I will recommend something cheaper.
I have recommended even S&W Sportline AR's to people who just want a casual plinker when they aren't hunting... there's no shame in it.
Guys that are playing run and gun games, or carbine courses or looking for a duty weapon... then I recommend the higher in the food chain so to speak guns.
Like others have stated.... you need to figure out what you want or need based on what you will be doing with the firearm. If you wanna punch some paper once a month.. I wouldn't spend your whole budget on a gun.
If you want something that will see serious heavy usage, doubles as a home defense gun like mine do, then by all means.. do the research, make the investment, you wont regret it.
All of us sitting here can brow beat you with info on our favorite builds and brands and set ups for US. Only you can truly determine what YOU NEED. I try to avoid talking about brands when it comes to AR's and 1911's.
Last edited:
HKfan pretty much nails it. I think the only people on here that say that this brand is better than that brand or that mil spec matters so much more then commercial are just backing what they own to make them feel better (big deal that some have commercial buffers and others mil spec - they make mil spec boot socks for God's sake)
Crow Hunter
New member
I agree with HKFan's point 100% that you should buy a gun that fits your usage. I have said that many times.
However, that doesn't mean that they are "the same" and you are just paying for a roll mark.
If your usage is "duty", you shouldn't buy a hobby quality gun.
If you usage is "hobby" shooting, you don't have to buy a "duty" grade gun.
It sounds like you are doing the same thing by repeatedly arguing that "hobby" grade guns are "just as good as".....
So what makes your Bushmaster the same or better than a Colt? Please tell me, I am interested to hear your reasoning.
Coltman 77
New member
There's been lots of speculation in this thread so let's get to some hard facts.
Colt has been making AR's that have been proven by our military in conflicts all over the globe for 51 years and are the standard by which all other AR's are judged.
Do they make a lemon from time to time? Of course they do, they're not perfect.
But when someone with real life experience like Larry Vickers recommends Colt, DD or BCM as top rifles, I tend to listen to them.
BTW, doubters, check the user opinions of Colt AR's at some hardcore AR15 forums -- AR15.com, Colt Forum.com and M4 Carbine. net. Then get back to us.
This thread needs some pics so here's one of my Colt 6940 with Aimpoint Micro T1 RD sight, Magpul stock and FVG.
Colt has been making AR's that have been proven by our military in conflicts all over the globe for 51 years and are the standard by which all other AR's are judged.
Do they make a lemon from time to time? Of course they do, they're not perfect.
But when someone with real life experience like Larry Vickers recommends Colt, DD or BCM as top rifles, I tend to listen to them.
BTW, doubters, check the user opinions of Colt AR's at some hardcore AR15 forums -- AR15.com, Colt Forum.com and M4 Carbine. net. Then get back to us.
This thread needs some pics so here's one of my Colt 6940 with Aimpoint Micro T1 RD sight, Magpul stock and FVG.
Last edited:
Crow Hunter
New member
Glad to.
Receiver extension:
Bushmaster - Commercial 6061 Aluminum with cut threads
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA6061t6
Colt - Milspec 7075 Aluminum with rolled on threads
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MA7075T6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threading_%28manufacturing%29
http://www.bhamfast.com/pdfs/bhamfast_rtct.pdf
-Cast extractors vs forged/machined extractors.
-Full auto bolt vs shrouded semi auto bolt.
-100% High pressure tested with followup Magnetic Particle Inspection of parts
-Shot peening bolts
-100%HP & MPI Barrel made out of correct 1050 steel vs 1040.
I can go on.
There is nothing wrong with buying a "hobby" grade gun if that is what you usage is. If you pay a "duty" grade price for essentially the same rifle without the benefits of "duty" grade quality, you didn't get a very good deal, but if you are happy with it, who cares.
I think it is very funny that the same people who will have a fit if you say a Stag or a Bushmaster or a DPMS isn't as good as a Colt, don't buy an Olympic, Hesse, Blackthorne, etc.
Why not? They are all the same right? You are just paying for a roll mark.
customaquatics
New member
ya to me they are all the same. my Palmetto can do the same thing as any colt can an it cost's is half of a colt i mean if your not going to use it to the fullest extent it can handle what is the point of dropping $1.4k on a rifle when you can buy a Palmetto or Stag that goes bang too? an if i was to brag FN does make the barrels for Palmetto
i mean if your not going to use it to the fullest extent it can handle what is the point of dropping $1.4k on a rifle when you can buy a Palmetto or Stag that goes bang too? an if i was to brag FN does make the barrels for Palmetto The difference between casting and machining is that when you cast something it has the tendency to have microscopic pockets of air. In cases where iron is cast, these pockets of air cause some problems with integrity - however the bolt carrier groups on AR-15's are made of steel (which is much stronger because carbon and other things like manganese are added) So the question is HOW much of a difference in strength set cast and forged steel parts apart - and is it enough to effect the extractor from doing its job? The difference is very small, pending on the grain consistency of the steel, forged steel will be at max 8% stronger (tensile strength). So simply put - machined may be stronger, but not by much, and whether it is cast or machined, both are more than strong enough to handle the 5.56 Nato round (not going to get into more science)
For "full auto bolts" The lug beneath of the carrier is the same as the top portion of the rear of the carrier. For the "shrouded semi auto bolt" the lug has to be cut back a little bit (its like 1/4" or something) and thats the portion that is used to trip the auto sear of a select fire/auto m16/m4. The shorter length of the lug on the under side cannot trip an auto sear. So simply put the shrouded semi auto bolt prevents the firearm from being automatic and the full auto bolt is only useful if you want an automatic weapon.
Magnetic particle testing only finds defects on the surface of the metal. Alot of brands out there use the HPT/MPI testing these days - HK, Spikes, BCM, DD, and a metric ton of others - and there are some that dont. However just because they pass a test does not mean that they are going to outlast another rifle that did not even take the test. And just because a rifle like Rock River or Bushmaster does not take the test does not mean it will fail it. I believe I read once that when tested only a very small percentage of rifles fail (like 3%) And some places "batch test" instead of performing individual tests - meaning your rifle could have failed if it was selected.
Shot peening is like sand blasting a surface. It spreads/compresses the surface (which will HELP stop cracks and cracks from becoming larger) But since it is a surface treatment it does NOT increase the internal strength of the part that it is applied to.
Somewhat of a double post. You already mentioned the testing, but-
Once again it is put through the high pressure test and the multiple particle inspection which I already explained why it is not a huge deal. And I'll leave you to explain just how much better "correct 1050 steel" is vs 1040.
Simply put you post differences in these rifles that are too small to even make a difference and even when a ton of people tell you otherwise you stick up for colt (the brand YOU own
) Dont get me wrong, you know about the platform and some of your postings are informational, but you are not the only one that does research and knows about these things. Slamfire, HKFan, and a bunch of other guys including myself on here know alot about the platform and how parts and other things perform and whatnot.
Last edited:
Thank you Crow Hunter, you are the first person I've seen on any forum who could actually back up that claim with any facts. I personally own a Bushmaster Carbon 15. Is it as good as a Colt? Maybe not, but I gave about half the price of a Colt, not mention it is considerably lighter than a Colt. If it breaks then I'll put some stronger parts in it. I personally don't care if some think that it's a "hobby" gun, because, let's be honest, only a tiny percentage of us will require our privately owned rifles to perform on the level of military rifles. Our's aren't full auto, they likely will never face the dirt and stress of the battlefield, and we won't be laying our lives in it's hands day in, day out. Even LE rifles aren't used that way.
Im not arguing, just having a discussion. And yes I'd put my hobby grade gun up to the Colt anyday in any test. Been there, done it, you may have been suprised
I never said the Bushmaster (M4A3) was better than a Colt (LE6920). I would say that they are about the same and yes I have put them up against each other. There is nothing wrong with either brand and the differences are just too small to make a difference.