I push a 147 gr load at around 1135fps with minimal pressure signs. I fire it sometimes in an unsupported chamber but I never reuse the brass. Given this is a tosty load I won't indicated what powder or charge I am using except you need to uses a slower burning powder than 231 or bullseye.
Why no +P for 147 gr 9mm?
- Thread starter Larry C.
- Start date
roger-ruger
New member
1st one;
honest to goodness answer only - if 147gr is a little bit of a banger on the wild side especially for polymer frames does this mean that my 158gr CJHP will definitely mushed up my aluminum framed P89?
honest to goodness answer only - if 147gr is a little bit of a banger on the wild side especially for polymer frames does this mean that my 158gr CJHP will definitely mushed up my aluminum framed P89?
What length barrel? I ask because that's only 200fps faster than Ranger T out of my 3.5" Kahr. If you're getting pressure signs at that velocity, then it supports earlier statements that there's not enough room in the case with a 147gr bullet to develop much more velocity.
Of course, if you're doing that out of a shorter barrel, that changes things a bit.
Chris
1st: Thanks for the clarification. In my humble opinion, your information sources are worthless. Cops, as a class of shooter, would be the last group I'd depend on for knowledge of firearms.
The polymer frame had absolutely nothing to do with your "experience" with a KB. Even your "sources" didn't alledge that silliness. You could mount a barrel and slide on a good wooden frame and there'd be no contribution of the frame to a KB!
If the "KB" that you experienced was merely a case head separation (which would be the ONLY possibility in which case support would impact), then we just have a difference in opinion as to what a "KB" is. If, on the other hand, the chamber was cracked; the slide split, etc., then we do agree on what a "KB" is, we just don't agree that lack of case support contributed to the KB. Lack of case support might very well result in a blown case @ 6 o'clock, but it sure as heck won't cause a chamber to crack or a slide to split!
The polymer frame had absolutely nothing to do with your "experience" with a KB. Even your "sources" didn't alledge that silliness. You could mount a barrel and slide on a good wooden frame and there'd be no contribution of the frame to a KB!
If the "KB" that you experienced was merely a case head separation (which would be the ONLY possibility in which case support would impact), then we just have a difference in opinion as to what a "KB" is.
If, on the other hand, the chamber was cracked; the slide split, etc., then we do agree on what a "KB" is, we just don't agree that lack of case support contributed to the KB. Lack of case support might very well result in a blown case @ 6 o'clock, but it sure as heck won't cause a chamber to crack or a slide to split!roger-ruger
New member
I believe the P89 barrels do lack case support. But with over 1000rounds thru with mostly reloads I should say RUGERS are more reliable than GLOCKS.
phenomena
KB's occur (in any brand) most often from bullet setback.
They happened lots in Glocks because there were lots of Glocks, poor handloading techniques, certain feed geometry differences, and un- or under-trained weenies.
But H&K's KB, and 1911's and SIG's and Rugers (but I've never touched a KB'd Ruger) and others......
Not "gun"; "ammo".
The ammo.
KB's occur (in any brand) most often from bullet setback.
They happened lots in Glocks because there were lots of Glocks, poor handloading techniques, certain feed geometry differences, and un- or under-trained weenies.
But H&K's KB, and 1911's and SIG's and Rugers (but I've never touched a KB'd Ruger) and others......
Not "gun"; "ammo".
The ammo.
juliet charley
New member
I can't buy that entirely. While it's true any handgun can kB!, there appear to be some that are more prone to it than others. For example, it's a lot easier to kB! a .357 Magnum S&W Model 19 than a .357 Magnum Ruger Redhawk (or .45 Colt SAA than a Ruger Blackhawk). Some weapons are simply better able to "take a likkin' and keep on tikkin'" than others.
There's been too many documented cases of Glock 22/23 kB!s with factory ammo (particularly Federal) to be merely attribute to number of weapons in use. The real question must be: Given the same ammunition/load, would a a S&W 4006 or SIG P229, etc. have kB!'d as well? I think in the overwhelming majority of the cases (and particularly those involving factory ammunition) the answer would be no. So, yes, sometimes it is the weapon (design and/or construction) and NOT the ammo (as you alluded to when you mentioned "certain feed geometry differences" to which I would have probably added generally loose tolerances that allow for an overly generous firing out of battery of condition).
I think a better position would is that all weapons can kB!--and ammo is a factor in the majority of the cases--but some weapons (e.g., the Glock 2x series) are more prone to it due to design/construction than others. People who choose to carry/shoot these particular weapons need to take extra care to check their ammunition very carefully for setback and other issues (even factory ammo), keep their chambers exceptionally clean, maintain (i.e. replace) their recoil springs routinely (i.e., frequently).
There's been too many documented cases of Glock 22/23 kB!s with factory ammo (particularly Federal) to be merely attribute to number of weapons in use. The real question must be: Given the same ammunition/load, would a a S&W 4006 or SIG P229, etc. have kB!'d as well? I think in the overwhelming majority of the cases (and particularly those involving factory ammunition) the answer would be no. So, yes, sometimes it is the weapon (design and/or construction) and NOT the ammo (as you alluded to when you mentioned "certain feed geometry differences" to which I would have probably added generally loose tolerances that allow for an overly generous firing out of battery of condition).
I think a better position would is that all weapons can kB!--and ammo is a factor in the majority of the cases--but some weapons (e.g., the Glock 2x series) are more prone to it due to design/construction than others. People who choose to carry/shoot these particular weapons need to take extra care to check their ammunition very carefully for setback and other issues (even factory ammo), keep their chambers exceptionally clean, maintain (i.e. replace) their recoil springs routinely (i.e., frequently).
I have had 2 KB's with my glock 17 both with gun show reloads. Both times the base blew out below the unsupported section of the barrel blowing out the mag. Otherwise the gun was not damaged. (This is why I now roll my own) When I shoot my tosty loads I get a slight (very slight bulging) in the base area, therfore I DO NOT reuse the brass I fire from that firearm. I get no such pressure indications from my CZ's of 9 mm M68 Carbines.
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