Why laser sights?
- Thread starter John D
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Boris Bush
Moderator
sholling, DENALI
A little more than 50% of the weapons used by me and my brothers in combat had visible lasers on them.
Very long story short. We never used them....
A little more than 50% of the weapons used by me and my brothers in combat had visible lasers on them.
Very long story short. We never used them....
Couple reasons. The average citizen is not likely to eat and sleep with their battery operated weaponry and become familiar with it to the point that they would never leave it on and forget about it. Nor would their lives depend on it every single day, i.e. a damn good reason to keep fresh batteries in it. Nor would they just 'know' when the batteries needed changing. Last time I checked, if somebody comes a knockin' on my door at 3am, I don't have backup, squadmates or entry teams waiting to pick up my slack if the battery does go dead. Just me and my open sights that always work.
Geronimo45
New member
Oh? Then I've got to ask - do bears chase the dot like cats do?
CraigC,
Boris,
Thats nice, yet I've spoken with one vet that credits a CT for saving his life. If it didn't help you, oh well. I'll count my tax dollars well spent if they saved one life. At least you attempt to make semi lucid arguments, DENALI is obviously doing nothing but trolling. I've had enough troll feeding on this subject. I'll await the upcoming "25acp the Ultimate Fight Stopper" thread or whatever nonsense comes up next.I'm out of here.
Obviously you're never used CT grips. You cannot turn them on and leave them on and forget about them for days. They come on when you grip the weapon, turn on when you release. And if someone is too complacent to change the battery every 3-4 years well then they can fall back on iron sights.
Boris,
Thats nice, yet I've spoken with one vet that credits a CT for saving his life. If it didn't help you, oh well. I'll count my tax dollars well spent if they saved one life. At least you attempt to make semi lucid arguments, DENALI is obviously doing nothing but trolling. I've had enough troll feeding on this subject. I'll await the upcoming "25acp the Ultimate Fight Stopper" thread or whatever nonsense comes up next.I'm out of here.
Mr sholling you've passed along nothing, you have nothing but feeling's and emotion on the topic and appear to be to easily frustrated to effectively and intelligently debate and stake a position. You now have the input of another professional(Boris)and it to is based on first hand experience.
His point beautifully re-enforces mine, your toy lacks practicality. Just in case you missed it, it's okay with me if you hang a projecting laser on your pistol, I've said so more than once. And do you call everyone you fail to sell "Trolls", it certainly reflects a special level of maturity you seem to lack..
His point beautifully re-enforces mine, your toy lacks practicality. Just in case you missed it, it's okay with me if you hang a projecting laser on your pistol, I've said so more than once. And do you call everyone you fail to sell "Trolls", it certainly reflects a special level of maturity you seem to lack..
Hello Boris,
"A little more than 50% of the weapons used by me and my brothers in combat had visible lasers on them.
Very long story short. We never used them...."
Boris,
I'm curious, were these on handguns for up close personal protection or combat as in war or law enforcement? At what distance was the "enemy" on average?
For the record, from where I'm sitting, Mr. Sholling seems to be really trying to remain civil. I appreciate his thoughtful comments. No disrespect Denali, but you seem unwilling to entertain the chance that your experience in the mental hospital??? is not 100% representative to all violent close encounters.
Good day all.
"A little more than 50% of the weapons used by me and my brothers in combat had visible lasers on them.
Very long story short. We never used them...."
Boris,
I'm curious, were these on handguns for up close personal protection or combat as in war or law enforcement? At what distance was the "enemy" on average?
For the record, from where I'm sitting, Mr. Sholling seems to be really trying to remain civil. I appreciate his thoughtful comments. No disrespect Denali, but you seem unwilling to entertain the chance that your experience in the mental hospital??? is not 100% representative to all violent close encounters.
Good day all.
OK, the bottom line is we can, and probably will, go on forever about this.
i happen to like them and , despite the fact i dont remember seeing the dot when i had to shoot in anger, doesnt mean they arent helpful. Maybe i react better because i am comfortable knowing i have them. (?) see my earlier post.
re Danali's discussion about human attacks;
i was the medical director at trinity lutheran north years ago. it was a lock down psychiatric facility. and yes, you can be attacked VERY quickly in that environment.
but in three years there, seeing 20-30 patients a day, i was only in a position that required real force once. (I never carried in the hospital but gave a guy a pneumothorax with a bic pen when he cornered and attacked me)
the point is, one incident in thousands! probably because i let my guard down(this guy had no prior violent tendencies)
the key to self defense is to always expect the worst, then deal with the reality.
no, i dont remember seeing the dot when ive shot in anger. but i still hit the targets.
cant we just agree to disagree on this one?
JMHO
tom
i happen to like them and , despite the fact i dont remember seeing the dot when i had to shoot in anger, doesnt mean they arent helpful. Maybe i react better because i am comfortable knowing i have them. (?) see my earlier post.
re Danali's discussion about human attacks;
i was the medical director at trinity lutheran north years ago. it was a lock down psychiatric facility. and yes, you can be attacked VERY quickly in that environment.
but in three years there, seeing 20-30 patients a day, i was only in a position that required real force once. (I never carried in the hospital but gave a guy a pneumothorax with a bic pen when he cornered and attacked me)
the point is, one incident in thousands! probably because i let my guard down(this guy had no prior violent tendencies)
the key to self defense is to always expect the worst, then deal with the reality.
no, i dont remember seeing the dot when ive shot in anger. but i still hit the targets.
cant we just agree to disagree on this one?
JMHO
tom
Boris Bush
Moderator
AKGunner
Only one soldier even put batteries in the CT on his 92, and every one of our 92s has the CTs on them.
Our M4s were the 50% weapons. We did use them but not in firefights, they were used more to point stuff out to each other.
Distance was from contact range (arms, or barrel length) to around 200 meters for me. Beyond 200 meters I would leave it up to the guys designated for that, even though I was good out to 400 meters, give or take a few.
If we were close enough I do not even remember useing my EOtech and that was out to about 20 meters. out to 100 it was sighted with both eyes open and them few times I took longer shots I rested down and used one eye. One thing I never used but always had was my laser. I could have, but why when my sights are right there? No one in their right mind would ever train to use a laser over your sights! I don't even know of anyone that trains people to use lasers as a primary sighting method. It goes against marksmanship skills
Only one soldier even put batteries in the CT on his 92, and every one of our 92s has the CTs on them.
Our M4s were the 50% weapons. We did use them but not in firefights, they were used more to point stuff out to each other.
Distance was from contact range (arms, or barrel length) to around 200 meters for me. Beyond 200 meters I would leave it up to the guys designated for that, even though I was good out to 400 meters, give or take a few.
If we were close enough I do not even remember useing my EOtech and that was out to about 20 meters. out to 100 it was sighted with both eyes open and them few times I took longer shots I rested down and used one eye. One thing I never used but always had was my laser. I could have, but why when my sights are right there? No one in their right mind would ever train to use a laser over your sights! I don't even know of anyone that trains people to use lasers as a primary sighting method. It goes against marksmanship skills
Nope, have not and would not. My above post was in response to the general use of sighting apparatuses that require batteries (specifically red dot sights!). If I'm gonna pay $200-$300 for grips (and I do, routinely), it will be fancy walnut, ivory substitute or stag. Not a chunk of plastic with an embedded laser pointer.
If they work for you that's great, more power to you. They're just not for me.
Boris, thanks for your reply. I didn't realize the m9 came with a laser on the grips. The m9 or in my case the Beretta 92fs is what started this recent interest of mine in handguns. My father in law who was ex military left me his 92fs when he died a few years back. It prompted me to take training and purchase a 1911, s&W j-frame(which has laser) 
and a s&w 500. I've also been reloading for every one of the guns to keep them going bang without breaking the bank.
The 92fs, while not my favorite to shoot or carry, is very sentimental to my wife and myself. My wife shoots it more than I do when we go to the range together. The only regret I have is that I didn't go shooting with my father-in-law before he died.
Thanks for your service, Boris.
and a s&w 500. I've also been reloading for every one of the guns to keep them going bang without breaking the bank.The 92fs, while not my favorite to shoot or carry, is very sentimental to my wife and myself. My wife shoots it more than I do when we go to the range together. The only regret I have is that I didn't go shooting with my father-in-law before he died.
Thanks for your service, Boris.
+1 to CraigC, I love nice wood on my weapons.
I don't think laser are necessary for civilians (and evidently not for many service men), it seems more like the ninja approach. Iron sights on handguns have worked for a long time, and i think there is no need to use a crutch if your not hurt, so to speak.
also, +1 about whoever was giving statistics about actual gunfights, every once in a while some people here need to be dragged back into reality.
YK
I don't think laser are necessary for civilians (and evidently not for many service men), it seems more like the ninja approach. Iron sights on handguns have worked for a long time, and i think there is no need to use a crutch if your not hurt, so to speak.
also, +1 about whoever was giving statistics about actual gunfights, every once in a while some people here need to be dragged back into reality.
YK
Boris Bush
Moderator
AKGunner
Not all M9s have the laser grips on them, my unit however put them on all our M9s. Big waste of money because all but one guy used them, oh well. One major reason I never used them is because combat causes alot of explosions and explosions make dust and lasers shot through dust lets everyone know where you are at. F@%K that!! No way, not when people will shoot back at you because you used it.
Same goes for civilian use. You have an advantage of knowing your palace in the dark, you get the drop on the badguy. He will NOT see that dot on his chest. He WILL see that red light, a bright beacon telling him exactly where you are.
They are toys best left to mall ninjas in my opinion, and thats all it is guys, an opinion, not an attack on ones ability to do the job as they see fit.
Not all M9s have the laser grips on them, my unit however put them on all our M9s. Big waste of money because all but one guy used them, oh well. One major reason I never used them is because combat causes alot of explosions and explosions make dust and lasers shot through dust lets everyone know where you are at. F@%K that!! No way, not when people will shoot back at you because you used it.
Same goes for civilian use. You have an advantage of knowing your palace in the dark, you get the drop on the badguy. He will NOT see that dot on his chest. He WILL see that red light, a bright beacon telling him exactly where you are.
They are toys best left to mall ninjas in my opinion, and thats all it is guys, an opinion, not an attack on ones ability to do the job as they see fit.
Boris Bush said: Same goes for civilian use. You have an advantage of knowing your palace in the dark, you get the drop on the badguy. He will NOT see that dot on his chest. He WILL see that red light, a bright beacon telling him exactly where you are.
Concur. Boris, if you would check several pages back, I said much the same thing. I also said that I WANTED him to see that laser staring at him as he listened to me explain his options. I have six battle stars on my Vietnam Service Ribbon, three of which mean something. It is different here.
God speed you Boris, and may you be done with war too.
Jack
Concur. Boris, if you would check several pages back, I said much the same thing. I also said that I WANTED him to see that laser staring at him as he listened to me explain his options. I have six battle stars on my Vietnam Service Ribbon, three of which mean something. It is different here.
God speed you Boris, and may you be done with war too.
Jack
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